Why The Cardinals Should Draft a QB in Round 1

[Cheesebeef]

I think the host was more playing off of the Alex Smith trade, but either way, it is interesting to think about. If somehow Lynch turned a 2nd round pick into two 1st round picks, he'd be a genius. Then get a QB that fits the system for nothing other than the money you would have given the other guy.

agree

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

First I don’t think Niners trade harrapolo.

Second I don’t know if that’s a great deal for cards. It means giving up BOTH draft picks and a huge salary. I understand we likely have give up draft capital to move up for a qb in the draft, but at least he’s in a rookie contract for years which allows us to build talent around him. Most gargantuan qb deals are why require teams to jettison their talent. That rookie contract for a QB is pure gold.

 

[WildBB]

First I don’t think Niners trade harrapolo.

Second I don’t know if that’s a great deal for cards. It means giving up BOTH draft picks and a huge salary. I understand we likely have give up draft capital to move up for a qb in the draft, but at least he’s in a rookie contract for years which allows us to build talent around him. Most gargantuan qb deals are why require teams to jettison their talent. That rookie contract for a QB is pure gold.

Yes.

 

[Gandhi]

If somehow Lynch turned a 2nd round pick into two 1st round picks, he'd be a genius. Then get a QB that fits the system for nothing other than the money you would have given the other guy.

I don’t know about that, Bruce. Right now they know they have a young quarterback that makes them very competitive. They have experienced a remarkable change in playing level since they inserted Garoppolo as their starting quarterback. Personally, I went from laughing of them to take them very seriously as a contender to win the division next season.

With Cousins they would get a very good quarterback, in my opinion, and one their head coach has a good relationship with. On the other hand, they would not get a quarterback that they know can be successful with their team. A lot of factors goes into if a quarterback has success. It can be if he like living in the city, if his wife likes it too, if he has kids it can make a different in the quarterbacks mind if they thrive in school and with some friends, and all that kind of stuff is important. His relationship with his new teammates and all the other coaches obviously is important as well. It’s also why I don’t believe you can simply say that, for instance, the Browns would have been better of by drafting Carson Wentz. That assertion is way too easy.

So, to sum up, I wouldn’t call Lynch a genius if he ends up throwing away what he knows is a great franchise quarterback for his team for a couple of high draftpicks and a gamble with another quarterback.

 

[oaken1]

I don’t know about that, Bruce. Right now they know they have a young quarterback that makes them very competitive. They have experienced a remarkable change in playing level since they inserted Garoppolo as their starting quarterback. Personally, I went from laughing of them to take them very seriously as a contender to win the division next season.

With Cousins they would get a very good quarterback, in my opinion, and one their head coach has a good relationship with. On the other hand, they would not get a quarterback that they know can be successful with their team. A lot of factors goes into if a quarterback has success. It can be if he like living in the city, if his wife likes it too, if he has kids it can make a different in the quarterbacks mind if they thrive in school and with some friends, and all that kind of stuff is important. His relationship with his new teammates and all the other coaches obviously is important as well. It’s also why I don’t believe you can simply say that, for instance, the Browns would have been better of by drafting Carson Wentz. That assertion is way too easy.

So, to sum up, I wouldn’t call Lynch a genius if he ends up throwing away what he knows is a great franchise quarterback for his team for a couple of high draftpicks and a gamble with another quarterback.

I agree with that on a purely philosophical level. But, damn... the dude sure would look like a genius if it worked out.
either way there is no way he trades JimmyG to the redbirds. they know he is too good to want to face him twice a year.

 

[Gandhi]

I agree with that on a purely philosophical level. But, damn... the dude sure would look like a genius if it worked out.

Well, that’s the nature of the job. Steve Keim looked like a genius when he in three consecutive years used his third round selection on Tyrann Mathieu, John Brown and David Johnson respectively. Some probably still think that was genius, some probably don’t. Everyone thought David Caldwell could work magic following Blake Bortles’ fine rookie season, but now it’s another story. People crowned John Elway as an amazing general manager after he landed Peyton Manning and they won the Super Bowl. Now many of the same people points to Elway as main responsible for their chaotic quarterback situation.

You are definitely right that Lynch will look like a genius if it works out, and he has an equally successful quarterback as well as two first round draftpicks. The alternative is that he looks like the worst general manager ever because he gave his young stud franchise quarterback away.

either way there is no way he trades JimmyG to the redbirds. they know he is too good to want to face him twice a year.

You are without a doubt correct.

 

[GimmedaBall]

<facepalm>

Keim was not the GM when Russell Wilson was drafted. That was Rod Graves' last year.

You are correct regarding SK not being the GM. In 2012, SK was the vice president of player personnel. I did not state that SK was the GM over that draft. Still, he actually took responsibility for the Cards passing on Wilson and his scouting blunder:

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/8/2...ryan-lindley-steve-keim-logan-thomas-seahawks

Not sure how the Cards Front Office was organized at that time but it appears from the article that SK had a major input that year into the draft.

Regardless of SK's title, he labeled himself 'chicken+++' for the Cards not selecting Wilson.

 

[GimmedaBall]

I think you mean who did we take right after Wilson was selected. I don't remember his first name but his last name was Fleming a CB from Oklahoma. I think???

Yup. Jamell Fleming. Discussed in the same article on SK and Russell Wilson:

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/8/2...ryan-lindley-steve-keim-logan-thomas-seahawks

Brief career with Cards, KC, Jack
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlemJa00.htm

 

[GimmedaBall]

He doesn't "have" to do any of that. He can play it however he wants to, and he has a lot of options in his hands. His legacy is going to be defined by wins, nothing else, and he's already the winningest GM in Arizona Cardinals history. Sure, he probably wants to have a long and illustrious career, but if Kirk Cousins or Teddy Bridgewater or Josh McCown take us to the Super Bowl, he's still going to be the guy that did that.

He has one plain and simple goal - to set the team up for success, whether that is now or a little bit in the future. We're not going to fondly remember him if he trades up for Josh Allen and completely busts, leaving us bereft of future draft picks to remedy the mistakes, as "the guy who took that risk and went after that guy."

From 1962 to 1987, owner Bill Bidwill was also the 'de facto' General Manager. Believe he would be the winningest GM is Cardinal history.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/executives/BidwBi0.htm

SK still has a way to go to catch up with Rod Graves' regular season record as AZ Cards GM. Rod Graves was GM from 2003 to 2012 and went 65-95. SK has been in place from 2013-present and has gone 49-30-1 in the regular season.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/executives/GravRo0.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/executives/KeimSt0.htm

SK is not going to get any more wins until he makes a decision.

 

[Dan H]

You are correct regarding SK not being the GM. In 2012, SK was the vice president of player personnel. I did not state that SK was the GM over that draft. Still, he actually took responsibility for the Cards passing on Wilson and his scouting blunder:

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/8/2...ryan-lindley-steve-keim-logan-thomas-seahawks

Not sure how the Cards Front Office was organized at that time but it appears from the article that SK had a major input that year into the draft.

Regardless of SK's title, he labeled himself 'chicken+++' for the Cards not selecting Wilson.

He can say whatever the heck he wants, it still doesn't make it so. He could have jumped up and down wanting Graves to pick Wilson and the Snail still would have gone another direction, most likely.

 

[JeffGollin]

The Garropolo and R Wilson examples raise an important issue:

Someone in the Pat, Seattle and now the Niner FO's saw something in each guy that most of the other 31 teams did not.

Do the Cards have anyone on staff who has a high batting average feretting out and developing elite QB prospects?

Unless a team has that magic touch, all the clever moves they and we concoct won't be worth bupkis, because we'll be wasting too much time, draft picks and energy acquiring the wrong dude.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Cards Draft after trade with Indy: Get #3 pick for 1st and 3rd this year and 1st next year.

This could be about what it would look like if the Cards want one of the 2 remaining top QBs in the draft, with Darnold and Rosen going 1/2.

Round 1 Pick 3 (IND): Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma
Round 2 Pick 15: Martinas Rankin, OT, Mississippi State
Round 5 Pick 25 (TENN)arius Phillips, CB, Western Michigan
Round 6 Pick 20 (LAR): Cody OConnell, OG, Washington State
Round 7 Pick 7 (DEN): Scott Quessenberry, C, UCLA
Round 7 Pick 10 (OAK): Jordan Lasley, WR, UCLA
Round 7 Pick 30 (SEA): Kalen Ballage, RB, Arizona State
Round 7 Pick 32 (CINN): Christian LaCouture, DT, LSU

 

[HoodieBets]

Cards Draft after trade with Indy: Get #3 pick for 1st and 3rd this year and 1st next year.

This could be about what it would look like if the Cards want one of the 2 remaining top QBs in the draft, with Darnold and Rosen going 1/2.

Round 1 Pick 3 (IND): Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma
Round 2 Pick 15: Martinas Rankin, OT, Mississippi State
Round 5 Pick 25 (TENN)arius Phillips, CB, Western Michigan
Round 6 Pick 20 (LAR): Cody OConnell, OG, Washington State
Round 7 Pick 7 (DEN): Scott Quessenberry, C, UCLA
Round 7 Pick 10 (OAK): Jordan Lasley, WR, UCLA
Round 7 Pick 30 (SEA): Kalen Ballage, RB, Arizona State
Round 7 Pick 32 (CINN): Christian LaCouture, DT, LSU

Lol you are gonna have to give up a lot more than that to get to 3. It’s more this this years 1st 2nd and 5th and next years 1st and 5th


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[don7031]

Going from 6th to 2nd cost the Redskins a swap of current firsts, a second and two additional firsts to get RG3.

The Niners fleeced the Bears for a couple thirds and a fourth to go from third to second to take a player the Niners weren't going to take.

A top five pick is an extreme sellers market.

Unless a player is a transcendental talent, the situation he is drafted into is the most important factor in whether or not that player will succeed.

Darnold, Rosen and Allen will be gone before the Cardinals can afford to move up. Cousins and Smith fill the quarterback needs for two teams. That really just leaves the Bills with their two first round picks to jump the Cardinals for the fourth quarterback off the board.

Learn from the Bears! Don't overspend on a stopgap quarterback. Don't trade up foolishly and impulsively. Stick with the plan to "redshirt" your draft choice.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Lol you are gonna have to give up a lot more than that to get to 3. It’s more this this years 1st 2nd and 5th and next years 1st and 5th


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup. The 'Draft Value Chart' is a starting point in trade negotiations. When a team shows up without a QB under contract---the cost of doing business just goes way up. Get ready to empty the wallet and pull your pockets inside out for all available change as well.

Indy may need their own QB in the draft considering the silence around Luck's return to health. Also, what would be the advantage to Indy to make a trade and give away their #3 pick in the first? They're not in the business of being benevolent to the Cards---if Luck is healthy someone like RB Barkley would be a major addition to their O. Some draft boards have Barkley as the #1 player in the draft and Indy has a chance to draft him.

 

[GimmedaBall]

He can say whatever the heck he wants, it still doesn't make it so. He could have jumped up and down wanting Graves to pick Wilson and the Snail still would have gone another direction, most likely.

I got the impression from the article with SK concerning Wilson that he (meaning SK) didn't put Wilson on the scouting report as a QB for the Cards to consider.

SK took the responsibility . . . to his credit (or discredit). We have all heard the story of SK advocating for Adrian Peterson with Graves going with Levi instead. That story came out regarding SK and Graves with Graves as the one making the hindsight error in judgement--- so I believe SK when he took responsibility for the pass on Wilson.

 

[oaken1]

Yup. The 'Draft Value Chart' is a starting point in trade negotiations. When a team shows up without a QB under contract---the cost of doing business just goes way up. Get ready to empty the wallet and pull your pockets inside out for all available change as well.

Indy may need their own QB in the draft considering the silence around Luck's return to health. Also, what would be the advantage to Indy to make a trade and give away their #3 pick in the first? They're not in the business of being benevolent to the Cards---if Luck is healthy someone like RB Barkley would be a major addition to their O. Some draft boards have Barkley as the #1 player in the draft and Indy has a chance to draft him.

Indy wont have that chance, the NY Gints are gonna draft Saquon Barkley

 

[oaken1]

I got the impression from the article with SK concerning Wilson that he (meaning SK) didn't put Wilson on the scouting report as a QB for the Cards to consider.

SK took the responsibility . . . to his credit (or discredit). We have all heard the story of SK advocating for Adrian Peterson with Graves going with Levi instead. That story came out regarding SK and Graves with Graves as the one making the hindsight error in judgement--- so I believe SK when he took responsibility for the pass on Wilson.

yeah... in a way, I think Keims lost battles with Graves had a lot to do with him being hired as GM.

 

[GimmedaBall]

yeah... in a way, I think Keims lost battles with Graves had a lot to do with him being hired as GM.

Good point. MB was in the draft war room and was privy to the draft calls made by both Graves/SK. Who knows the tally sheet that he had between the two? LOL.