Why the Cards cannot/should not pay Dansby

cardsfanmd

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I know I'm sure to catch a good bit of flak here, but this really is how I see it.

Professional football is a business and with the salary cap in effect, a team has to be looking to get more out of each player than what they are really paying for. Franchising Dansby the past two years wasn't nearly as integral to our success IMO as were the low costs for high value guys like Boldin, Dockett, Hightower, Breaston, Campbell (this year) and Gandy (last year).

There are 3 premium positions in this league IMO. By premium I mean positions that you can afford to overpay for because the service that is brought back in return is more than worth it, the positions are the most vital ones to success in this game and great players at these positions are hard to come by. Those positions are QB, LT and a passrusher (whether it be a DE, LB or UT/3-4DE). It is hard to really put a price on what these guys do for your club. Warner made top dollar this year but I doubt you can find anyone on this planet (other than a Mr Matt Leinart) who thinks the team could have made it to the second round of the playoffs without him. Warner's value exceeds his paycheck.

Aside from those three positions I believe you can have 2-3 other guys on your team who you can afford to really pair "fair market value". That normally means you're overpaying a bit because crap teams overvalue good players. These players are leaders of your team and exemplify what you want to your players to be like, on and off the field. Not only do they produce, but they show your young players how to get where they are. Examples of this on out team are Fitz and A-Dub. Boldin obviously fits this criteria as well but because he signed a poor deal a few years ago (and possibly patially because the team franchised Dansby?), he isn't currently paid like the other two.

Dansby must be looking for around 9-10 a year, almost what Kurt is making. Unless he all of the sudden learns how to consistently rush the passer, practice or starts making players out of one of his young defensemen, there is just no way to justify giving him the coin. All of our other premier players' value exceeds their salary in one way or another. We wouldn't be able to hope for more than Dansby to earn his money, because at this point in his career we know to expect from him.
 

Shane

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I know I'm sure to catch a good bit of flak here, but this really is how I see it.

Professional football is a business and with the salary cap in effect, a team has to be looking to get more out of each player than what they are really paying for. Franchising Dansby the past two years wasn't nearly as integral to our success IMO as were the low costs for high value guys like Boldin, Dockett, Hightower, Breaston, Campbell (this year) and Gandy (last year).

There are 3 premium positions in this league IMO. By premium I mean positions that you can afford to overpay for because the service that is brought back in return is more than worth it, the positions are the most vital ones to success in this game and great players at these positions are hard to come by. Those positions are QB, LT and a passrusher (whether it be a DE, LB or UT/3-4DE). It is hard to really put a price on what these guys do for your club. Warner made top dollar this year but I doubt you can find anyone on this planet (other than a Mr Matt Leinart) who thinks the team could have made it to the second round of the playoffs without him. Warner's value exceeds his paycheck.

Aside from those three positions I believe you can have 2-3 other guys on your team who you can afford to really pair "fair market value". That normally means you're overpaying a bit because crap teams overvalue good players. These players are leaders of your team and exemplify what you want to your players to be like, on and off the field. Not only do they produce, but they show your young players how to get where they are. Examples of this on out team are Fitz and A-Dub. Boldin obviously fits this criteria as well but because he signed a poor deal a few years ago (and possibly patially because the team franchised Dansby?), he isn't currently paid like the other two.

Dansby must be looking for around 9-10 a year, almost what Kurt is making. Unless he all of the sudden learns how to consistently rush the passer, practice or starts making players out of one of his young defensemen, there is just no way to justify giving him the coin. All of our other premier players' value exceeds their salary in one way or another. We wouldn't be able to hope for more than Dansby to earn his money, because at this point in his career we know to expect from him.

Won't get an argument out of me. I have no problem with "paying" Dansby. What he is worth for a non pass rushing inside LBer.

I just am strongly against "overpaying" Dansby.
 
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Cards Czar

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I know I'm sure to catch a good bit of flak here, but this really is how I see it.

Professional football is a business and with the salary cap in effect, a team has to be looking to get more out of each player than what they are really paying for. Franchising Dansby the past two years wasn't nearly as integral to our success IMO as were the low costs for high value guys like Boldin, Dockett, Hightower, Breaston, Campbell (this year) and Gandy (last year).

There are 3 premium positions in this league IMO. By premium I mean positions that you can afford to overpay for because the service that is brought back in return is more than worth it, the positions are the most vital ones to success in this game and great players at these positions are hard to come by. Those positions are QB, LT and a passrusher (whether it be a DE, LB or UT/3-4DE). It is hard to really put a price on what these guys do for your club. Warner made top dollar this year but I doubt you can find anyone on this planet (other than a Mr Matt Leinart) who thinks the team could have made it to the second round of the playoffs without him. Warner's value exceeds his paycheck.

Aside from those three positions I believe you can have 2-3 other guys on your team who you can afford to really pair "fair market value". That normally means you're overpaying a bit because crap teams overvalue good players. These players are leaders of your team and exemplify what you want to your players to be like, on and off the field. Not only do they produce, but they show your young players how to get where they are. Examples of this on out team are Fitz and A-Dub. Boldin obviously fits this criteria as well but because he signed a poor deal a few years ago (and possibly patially because the team franchised Dansby?), he isn't currently paid like the other two.

Dansby must be looking for around 9-10 a year, almost what Kurt is making. Unless he all of the sudden learns how to consistently rush the passer, practice or starts making players out of one of his young defensemen, there is just no way to justify giving him the coin. All of our other premier players' value exceeds their salary in one way or another. We wouldn't be able to hope for more than Dansby to earn his money, because at this point in his career we know to expect from him.



Agree 100% on that.
 

bg7brd

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Won't get an argument out of me. I have no problem with "paying" Dansby. What he is worth for a non pass rushing inside LBer.

I just am strongly against "overpaying" Dansby.

I agree
 

ajcardfan

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Dansby just banked around 9 mil a year for the past two years from the Cardinals. In his shoes, it'd be pretty hard to see why that is such a crazy number for him to expect.
 

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Won't get an argument out of me. I have no problem with "paying" Dansby. What he is worth for a non pass rushing inside LBer.

I just am strongly against "overpaying" Dansby.

I'm with ya.

Too bad we have a glaring hole in the middle of the D right now & Graves didn't find a way to work the $18 mil we paid him the last few years into a signing bonus.
 

BigDavis75

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I honestly don't think people realize how bad our ILB position will be once Dansby leaves. Hayes, Beisel, and Walker. Awful. It is going to be ungodly horrible and by far our weakest position.

Dansby can rush the passer, he had a season of 8 sacks but as we all know, and a point that has been beaten to death, ILB is not a pass rushing position. We need to pay him or pray we find talent in the draft, and the latter would force us to draft by need and probably hurt us more than "overpaying" Dansby by one or two million each year.

I know I'm in the minority but he does so freakin much for our team it would be tremendous what will be gone once he is on another team.
 
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cardsfanmd

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I honestly don't think people realize how bad our ILB position will be once Dansby leaves. Hayes, Beisel, and Walker. Awful. It is going to be ungodly horrible and by far our weakest position.

Dansby can rush the passer, he had a season of 8 sacks but as we all know, and a point that has been beaten to death, ILB is not a pass rushing position. We need to pay him or pray we find talent in the draft, and the latter would force us to draft by need and probably hurt us more than "overpaying" Dansby by one or two million each year.

I know I'm in the minority but he does so freakin much for our team it would be tremendous what will be gone once he is on another team.

Are we a better team with Dansby right now? yes

Can we become a better team without him and his salary? yes

You guys talk about him like he's much better than he really is IMO.
 

Shane

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"overpaying" Dansby by one or two million each year.

The problem is thats not what he is looking for. He si looking for GROSSLY more. Something he just isnt worth. End of story IMO.

You dont just pay someone because they ask for it. If you did this team would have been in complete shambles long long ago. (yes I mean worse than what they were during the lean years)
 

Buckybird

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You dont just pay someone because they ask for it. If you did this team would have been in complete shambles long long ago. (yes I mean worse than what they were during the lean years)

This defense could be heading in that direction if we don't hit the jackpot in the draft this year & Davis or Brown don't produce at LB
 

Totally_Red

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Nice post CDinMD!

Karlos is a solid 3-down linebacker but that simply doesn't add up to a huge signing bonus and a huge long term financial commitment IMO.

But it sure would help if the Cardinals hadn't swung and missed on so many linebacker draft choices in recent years (See Buster 'the bust' Davis.)
 

Shane

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This defense could be heading in that direction if we don't hit the jackpot in the draft this year & Davis or Brown don't produce at LB

The defesne already is with Dansby. Last I checked outside of the GB game Dansby was hardly a game changer this year and missed a lot of tackles.
 

Buckybird

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The defesne already is with Dansby. Last I checked outside of the GB game Dansby was hardly a game changer this year and missed a lot of tackles.

like I've been saying nearly all season, this team needs to draft 3-4 LB'ers come D Day. It's still hard to believe the guys pulling the trigger didn't draft a possible replacement for Los last season. Though it would be stupid, they could still franchise him 1 more season until someone is ready.
 

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like I've been saying nearly all season, this team needs to draft 3-4 LB'ers come D Day. It's still hard to believe the guys pulling the trigger didn't draft a possible replacement for Los last season. Though it would be stupid, they could still franchise him 1 more season until someone is ready.

I would prefer it too if his replacement was already on the roster but at when would they have drafted that guy? If we had drafted someone else instead of Wells then we'd still need a RB. If someone instead of Brown in the 2nd we'd still need OLBs. Last year had some phenomenal 1st round talent at LB but this year seems to be much deeper. I think we'll draft Dansby's replacement early and LB is one of those positions where rookies tend to contribute right away.
 

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I would prefer it too if his replacement was already on the roster but at when would they have drafted that guy? If we had drafted someone else instead of Wells then we'd still need a RB. If someone instead of Brown in the 2nd we'd still need OLBs. Last year had some phenomenal 1st round talent at LB but this year seems to be much deeper. I think we'll draft Dansby's replacement early and LB is one of those positions where rookies tend to contribute right away.

Yup!
 

bg7brd

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I think Sean Weatherspoon would be a perfect fit. He's listed as an OLB but could move inside. This is from Scott Wright....

Sean Weatherspoon Outside Linebacker | Missouri | SR

Height: 6-2 | Weight: 245 | 40-Time: 4.60

Strengths:
Good size and bulk --- Very athletic --- Great speed --- Has a burst and really closes in a hurry --- Quick and agile --- Solid instincts --- Reliable tackler and a powerful hitter --- Has sideline-to-sideline range --- Nice balance and body control --- Great strength --- Works through traffic well --- Capable pass rusher and blitzer --- Very smooth and fluid in coverage --- Good hands and ball skills --- Tough and physical --- Active with a non-stop motor --- Smart --- Hard worker --- Team leader --- Has a ton of quality experience --- Durable --- Versatile --- Super productive.

Weaknesses:
There isn't a lot of violence in his game --- Has some trouble taking on and shedding blockers --- Can use his hands better --- Takes too long to read the action on occasion --- Appears to be a little stiff --- Doesn't always play with proper pad level --- Can be overly aggressive at times.

Notes:
Nickname is "Spoon" --- Was a three-year starter at Mizzou --- Named 1st Team All-Big 12 in 2007, 2008 and 2009 --- Earned All-American honors in 2008 (3rd Team) and 2009 (2nd Team) --- Led the Tigers in tackles from 2007-2009 and ranks second in school history in that category --- Returned two interceptions for touchdowns during his career --- Also excelled on special teams --- Underwent surgery to repair a torn labrum in his shoulder prior to the 2008 season --- Could project either outside or inside at the next level --- A true playmaker who always seems to be around the action --- Fantastic all-around player with an outstanding blend of physical tools and elite intangibles.


Career Statistics
Year GP TKL TFL SACK PBU INT
2006 13 17 1.0 0.0 0 0
2007 14 127 9.5 3.0 8 0
2008 14 155 18.5 5.0 7 3
2009 13 111 14.5 4.5 2 1
Totals 54 410 43.5 12.5 17 4
 

Buckybird

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I would prefer it too if his replacement was already on the roster but at when would they have drafted that guy? If we had drafted someone else instead of Wells then we'd still need a RB. If someone instead of Brown in the 2nd we'd still need OLBs. Last year had some phenomenal 1st round talent at LB but this year seems to be much deeper. I think we'll draft Dansby's replacement early and LB is one of those positions where rookies tend to contribute right away.

Jasper Brinkley!!! I know several guys here wanted him, the guy was a tackling machine coming out of college & I think a 5 or 6 rounder
 
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Deja Vu, all over again...


I think there is a chance that Dansby goes into FA looking for that jackpot, and out of pride signs with some other team for less than what he was offered by the Cardinals. A la Jamir Miller.
 

kerouac9

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So glad there was another thread on this...

If the Cards aren't going to sign another impact free agent this offseason (and there aren't any besides Dansby, I'm not sure why they oughtn't re-sign him. There IS NO SALARY CAP THIS SEASON.

The players that we're currently starting on our defense make probably far below their current NFL value were they free agents (Dockett, Campbell, C. Brown, DRC). Wilson just signed a new deal, and Rolle will likely be re-signed to a reasonable contract in March or April (thanks for being crappy, Rashard Johnson).

The question is, when this team is probably not going to be able to spend big money on either their players (because besides Dansby, none are worth it) or on free agents (because free agency rules will not permit it), why wouldn't you pay Dansby 5 yrs, $40 million, $27 guaranteed? You're actually SAVING money in the first three years of the deal, which is probably when you'll either cut him or renegotiate?
 

cardpa

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Dansby is an above average player but not someone you build your defense around. He is not an anchor. Put him on a team with a group of good linebackers ala Ravens, 49ers, etc. and he will shine like a star because he will be surrounded by a cast of LBers that will make him look better.

Then everyone will be saying we should have kept him. Not true as here he would have remained a good solid LBer with flashes of greatness. Nothing more.
 

Mitch

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Dansby is an above average player but not someone you build your defense around. He is not an anchor. Put him on a team with a group of good linebackers ala Ravens, 49ers, etc. and he will shine like a star because he will be surrounded by a cast of LBers that will make him look better.

Then everyone will be saying we should have kept him. Not true as here he would have remained a good solid LBer with flashes of greatness. Nothing more.

The truth!
 

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I look at it this way. It all depends on Kurt. If he comes back, we have one more title run in us, thus i'd tag him for one more year while we draft defense (and more importantly LBers) like there's no tomorrow for the future. That gives us hopefully one last shot. At the same time, I'd jettison Q (we have a running game and WR is our greatest position of depth) and use whatever we get from that trade, plus our own pick to go heavy on D. Add in whatever Cody Brown/Will Davis are ready to provide and maybe, just maybe, we have a defense that has a little more depth to go along with an offense that should be even better than it was last year and the year before. I mean, if Kurt stays and we don't sign Dansby for the one year, we're looking at a Mackage-like LBer core who would probably be the worst in the NFL... in a defense wholly dependant on LBers. It doesn't make sense to bring Kurt back if the D is going to be the worst in the NFL and considering there's no one we can bring in to replace Dansby, as mediocre as the D already is, you take away it's QB/2nd or third best player and they will be atrocious. just my two cents.

in a year where FA mobility will be limited and we've only got one year left, tag him again and let him walk next year. that's the way I see it... unless Kurt retires, then he's not worth the long-term investment.
 

BigDavis75

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Are we a better team with Dansby right now? yes

Can we become a better team without him and his salary? yes


You guys talk about him like he's much better than he really is IMO.

I would really love this explained. How would we be a better team next year after Dansby is gone? This isn't just directed at you, anyone can answer this.
 

ajcardfan

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I would really love this explained. How would we be a better team next year after Dansby is gone? This isn't just directed at you, anyone can answer this.

The idea is that we could get three or four players to improve more areas of the defense. The potential glitch with that idea is huge. Since we are a top 8 team, we are severely limited in free agency. It's far from certain we could actually land that many free agents at all, much less good ones.
 

Dayman

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like I've been saying nearly all season, this team needs to draft 3-4 LB'ers come D Day. It's still hard to believe the guys pulling the trigger didn't draft a possible replacement for Los last season. Though it would be stupid, they could still franchise him 1 more season until someone is ready.

That's what Somers suggested a couple weeks ago. It wouldn't be too detrimental if there isn't a salary cap.
 

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