Why will Murray fail?

[kerouac9]

Lol. His team’s goal was a national championship but they were meaningless snaps. Wow, the lengths you’re going now . . .

That's not an argument. Every team's goal is a national championship. Are you really suggesting that the pass attempts after halfway through the 3rd quarter against UCLA (when the score was 28-7) are illustrative of much?

When OU went up 28-9 at halftime in Norman, do the next 6 TDs the Sooners scored add a lot of predictive value?

Garbage time goes BOTH WAYS.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I shouldn't have really called it a gimmick. I've actually been excited about Kingsbury. I'm a little worried we're too "all-in" now, is all.


I am. I really don't fail to comprehend it. And I understand why Murray lovers are so excited... we're desperate for some spice in our lives as Cardinals fans. The past three years have made us felt like unloved housewives, and Kyler's our romance novel protagonist.

But that’s just it, if you’re going to go down a path don’t you have to fully commit if you want it to be successful? This isn’t the type of thing you can be half in.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's not an argument. Every team's goal is a national championship. Are you really suggesting that the pass attempts after halfway through the 3rd quarter against UCLA (when the score was 28-7) are illustrative of much?

When OU went up 28-9 at halftime in Norman, do the next 6 TDs the Sooners scored add a lot of predictive value?

Garbage time goes BOTH WAYS.

Are you suggesting that more than a handful of teams in the nation - of which Oklahoma was definitely one - have a legitimate shot at a national championship and carry that weight? Cmon let’s not be dumb here . . .

 

[Chopper0080]

So . . .

His lack of experience, which could be said about Haskins too. Don’t know that experience really translates and experienced college QBs fail in the NFL too.

His work ethic which his coaches have raves about.

His winning . . . which is now a problem? I have literally never heard this as an argument against any prospect in my decades of watching football. It’s the single biggest reach argument I’ve ever heard.

College snaps and games started is absolutely a valid metric for evaluating QBS. That is why so many coaches like Parcells and Jimmy Johnson used it.

I didn't bring up Haskins so I don't know why you did.

His work ethic which led him to a terrible interview w/ Dan Patrick, a rep that was reported by Albert Breer as "not a grinder", and a work ethic that caused him to miss his charity appearance prior to the draft. Being the face of a franchise is DIFFERENT. People don't pick and choose how they are perfectionists...they just are wired that way. Murray has never struck me as that.

Also, a work ethic that led him to crapping the bed in the first three drives of the biggest game in his college career.

A lack of overcoming adversity. A valid concern since, you know, he is going to be the face of a really bad franchise. Who knows how he is going to react because the only times he has struggled were vs Alabama (wasn't able to overcome it) and when he lost the QB battle at Texas A&M (he transferred).

Jamarcus Russell's issues were all off the field. On the field, his college play was amazing. His workouts were amazing. But deep down, he was just a dude who got by because he was an amazing athlete. My concern is that Murray is not as far away from Russell as people want him to be. Too many drips in the pre draft process for me not to worry there is a leak.

 

[Chopper0080]

Are you suggesting that more than a handful of teams in the nation - of which Oklahoma was definitely one - have a legitimate shot at a national championship and carry that weight? Cmon let’s not be dumb here . . .

When you are the equivalent of a college super team, yes. I see Kyler Murray in a very similar light to Matt Leinert except Leinart had more game started.

 

[Solar7]

But that’s just it, if you’re going to go down a path don’t you have to fully commit if you want it to be successful? This isn’t the type of thing you can be half in.

I actually wholeheartedly believe that going all-in on something is the path to failure. You need to remain flexible, and open to new concepts that challenge you, and reframe your long-held ideas.

That's why I was excited about the KK/Clements/Rosen experiment. Lace in some Air Raid-heavy concepts into a traditional NFL style setup, and watch success happen. Kinda like McVay or Reid.

 

[kerouac9]

But that’s just it, if you’re going to go down a path don’t you have to fully commit if you want it to be successful? This isn’t the type of thing you can be half in.

Not really. The Pats manage to change their game plan on a weekly basis. They don't commit 100% to anything.

Also, was Murray 100% committed to football? Starting when, exactly?

Are you suggesting that more than a handful of teams in the nation - of which Oklahoma was definitely one - have a legitimate shot at a national championship and carry that weight? Cmon let’s not be dumb here . . .

Meh. Not in the Big 12. They played 2 ranked teams, both of whom were utter frauds. They were—by far—the most talented team in their conference. They were deeply exposed when they played a real team in 'Bama and got run off the field.

They would've been the 4th-best team in the SEC and maybe the 3rd best in the Big 10.

It's incredible that Murray stans are ret-conning this draft process into Murray being the consensus #1 pick. He was the consensus top quarterback in the class the same way that Blake Bortles was.

 

[kerouac9]

Jamarcus Russell's issues were all off the field. On the field, his college play was amazing. His workouts were amazing. But deep down, he was just a dude who got by because he was an amazing athlete. My concern is that Murray is not as far away from Russell as people want him to be. Too many drips in the pre draft process for me not to worry there is a leak.

That's not how I remember it. I remember Russell having a very good Sr. season but having an unconscious bowl game against Notre Dame (9.76 YPA) and a crazy draft process, tickling all of Al Davis's erogenous zones.

I think that it's a little unhinged to compare Murray to Russell right now. My comparison right now is, like, Vince Young.

Did you know that Ryan Tannehill threw more passes as a collegian than Kyler Murray did? True story.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Not really. The Pats manage to change their game plan on a weekly basis. They don't commit 100% to anything.

Also, was Murray 100% committed to football? Starting when, exactly?



Meh. Not in the Big 12. They played 2 ranked teams, both of whom were utter frauds. They were—by far—the most talented team in their conference. They were deeply exposed when they played a real team in 'Bama and got run off the field.

They would've been the 4th-best team in the SEC and maybe the 3rd best in the Big 10.

It's incredible that Murray stans are ret-conning this draft process into Murray being the consensus #1 pick. He was the consensus top quarterback in the class the same way that Blake Bortles was.

By "going all in" we are referring to going all in on bringing in the pieces needed for KK to execute his vision. Obviously they are going to game plan week to week for the defense that they are going against. If they don't they will fail miserably and we will be starting over again in a year.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

College snaps and games started is absolutely a valid metric for evaluating QBS. That is why so many coaches like Parcells and Jimmy Johnson used it.

I didn't bring up Haskins so I don't know why you did.

His work ethic which led him to a terrible interview w/ Dan Patrick, a rep that was reported by Albert Breer as "not a grinder", and a work ethic that caused him to miss his charity appearance prior to the draft. Being the face of a franchise is DIFFERENT. People don't pick and choose how they are perfectionists...they just are wired that way. Murray has never struck me as that.

Also, a work ethic that led him to crapping the bed in the first three drives of the biggest game in his college career.

A lack of overcoming adversity. A valid concern since, you know, he is going to be the face of a really bad franchise. Who knows how he is going to react because the only times he has struggled were vs Alabama (wasn't able to overcome it) and when he lost the QB battle at Texas A&M (he transferred).

Jamarcus Russell's issues were all off the field. On the field, his college play was amazing. His workouts were amazing. But deep down, he was just a dude who got by because he was an amazing athlete. My concern is that Murray is not as far away from Russell as people want him to be. Too many drips in the pre draft process for me not to worry there is a leak.

You definitely have hit a nail on the head the non participant for the most part in the combine events and from what I've read the scripted throws at the pro day the Non Participant in the charity event just adds a element of doubt about Murrays commitment to the sport Great athlete Yes but what is between the ears is also every important consideration in my mind

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

When you are the equivalent of a college super team, yes. I see Kyler Murray in a very similar light to Matt Leinert except Leinart had more game started.

Or that kyler is a stronger arm, is light years faster, and as yet I’ve not heard of a penchant for partying. But yeah, totally the same.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I actually wholeheartedly believe that going all-in on something is the path to failure. You need to remain flexible, and open to new concepts that challenge you, and reframe your long-held ideas.

That's why I was excited about the KK/Clements/Rosen experiment. Lace in some Air Raid-heavy concepts into a traditional NFL style setup, and watch success happen. Kinda like McVay or Reid.

But Clements is still a part of the equation. And going all in doesn’t eliminate flexibility. Flexibility is a mindset. But to try to accomplish something you have to go all in on the tools. And that’s what they did. From what I’ve read KK is the virtual king of flexibility.

 

[dscher]

I love how all these comps being mentioned are to guys that have no comps to Kyler. Tannehill, Leinart, Young....all TRUE dual threats!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

By "going all in" we are referring to going all in on bringing in the pieces needed for KK to execute his vision. Obviously they are going to game plan week to week for the defense that they are going against. If they don't they will fail miserably and we will be starting over again in a year.

Jesus I thought this was obvious but thank you.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You definitely have hit a nail on the head the non participant for the most part in the combine events and from what I've read the scripted throws at the pro day the Non Participant in the charity event just adds a element of doubt about Murrays commitment to the sport Great athlete Yes but what is between the ears is also every important consideration in my mind

Congrats for being the king of the non football season underwear Olympics. Yeesh.

 

[Krangodnzr]

College snaps and games started is absolutely a valid metric for evaluating QBS. That is why so many coaches like Parcells and Jimmy Johnson used it.

I didn't bring up Haskins so I don't know why you did.

His work ethic which led him to a terrible interview w/ Dan Patrick, a rep that was reported by Albert Breer as "not a grinder", and a work ethic that caused him to miss his charity appearance prior to the draft. Being the face of a franchise is DIFFERENT. People don't pick and choose how they are perfectionists...they just are wired that way. Murray has never struck me as that.

Also, a work ethic that led him to crapping the bed in the first three drives of the biggest game in his college career.

A lack of overcoming adversity. A valid concern since, you know, he is going to be the face of a really bad franchise. Who knows how he is going to react because the only times he has struggled were vs Alabama (wasn't able to overcome it) and when he lost the QB battle at Texas A&M (he transferred).

Jamarcus Russell's issues were all off the field. On the field, his college play was amazing. His workouts were amazing. But deep down, he was just a dude who got by because he was an amazing athlete. My concern is that Murray is not as far away from Russell as people want him to be. Too many drips in the pre draft process for me not to worry there is a leak.

His fantastic mechanics don't strike you as a perfectionist? That is literally what everyone has said about Murray. He is fanatically a perfectionist. Albert Breer knows Murray how? He spent how much time with him?

Crapping the bed when he was under total siege against Alabama? Did you watch the game? Alabama came at him hard. Football isn't like basketball where one guy can totally carry a team. The OU team crapped the bed. Nick Saban outschemed and outcoached Lincoln Riley.

And you still go with the false narrative about A&M. At least be correct in your criticism. He was the starting QB when he transferred. The coaching staff jerked him and Kyle Allen around. Have you ever seen a situation where both starter AND backup transferred?

 

[kerouac9]

Jesus I thought this was obvious but thank you.

Well, the meaning of "all in" is that there's a cost when you're wrong — in fact, you lose everything. You're not saying anything if you say "They're going all in by drafting players and signing free agents while also letting some other players leave or not signing the best free agents because REASONS!"

Going all in forecloses future possibilities. It's going to be very difficult for them to execute, say, the Atlanta Falcons style of offense with this roster. So they don't have that level of flexibility.

 

[Krangodnzr]

When you are the equivalent of a college super team, yes. I see Kyler Murray in a very similar light to Matt Leinert except Leinart had more game started.

College super team? OU wouldn't even be second best team in the SEC.

 

[Krangodnzr]

They were deeply exposed when they played a real team in 'Bama and got run off the field.

They would've been the 4th-best team in the SEC and maybe the 3rd best in the Big 10.

95% of college football gets exposed against Alabama.

3rd best in Big 10? That's rich, OU defeated Ohio State the season before last, and OU was equally as good this year if not better.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

I really would have liked to seen what Murray would have done against stiffer competition yes we know about Alabama but what about Clemson etc. Not related to NFL just would have liked to see the Games Could have been some Great Games IMHO

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

A classic college game IMHO was when Flutie and BC defeated Kosar and Miami dont like Flutie for that to this day

 

[kerouac9]

His fantastic mechanics don't strike you as a perfectionist? That is literally what everyone has said about Murray. He is fanatically a perfectionist. Albert Breer knows Murray how? He spent how much time with him?

Crapping the bed when he was under total siege against Alabama? Did you watch the game? Alabama came at him hard. Football isn't like basketball where one guy can totally carry a team. The OU team crapped the bed. Nick Saban outschemed and outcoached Lincoln Riley.

And you still go with the false narrative about A&M. At least be correct in your criticism. He was the starting QB when he transferred. The coaching staff jerked him and Kyle Allen around. Have you ever seen a situation where both starter AND backup transferred?

Who are these people? His current coach and teammates? I wonder how the people he bailed on at TAMU feel about him?

Physical preparation is one thing; mental preparation is another. What makes the difference in the best quarterbacks isn't physical ability, it's the way they can diagnose a defense instantaneously and carve it up.

Paradoxically, this is why physical phenoms historically have struggled over the long-term in the NFL. Their ability to read and react to defenses doesn't develop quickly because they're running themselves out of trouble.

The heartsick bleating of Murray stans is baffling to me. Murray is a nice prospect, but he's a quantum leap below Andrew Luck a few years ago. It's not impossible to understand why people could have concerns. You can think that Murray is a tremendous risk (or a moderate one — if he fails he's not going to set the franchise back a decade) and also think that the reward is remarkable. Not everyone needs to love your boy.

 

[dscher]

Let's all do this in the meantime.. it might be just as fun.

 

[Lagerfilled]

Why do some people even follow this team if all they want to do is cry and counter every positive assertion??? Go find another team to whine about!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, the meaning of "all in" is that there's a cost when you're wrong — in fact, you lose everything. You're not saying anything if you say "They're going all in by drafting players and signing free agents while also letting some other players leave or not signing the best free agents because REASONS!"

Going all in forecloses future possibilities. It's going to be very difficult for them to execute, say, the Atlanta Falcons style of offense with this roster. So they don't have that level of flexibility.

True but neither does the Atlanta Falcons have the ability to run KK’s offense, do they? ABSOLUTELY NO TEAM HAS THE “FLEXIBILITY” AS YOU’RE DEFINING IT. Each team has to maximize (go all in) for their specific system. Then a good coach remains flexible within his system - which is what KK is somewhat renowned for. Think Belicheck can be flexible to run KK’s offense? Of course not. That’s a ridiculous statement.