Wilfork

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Northern Card
I couldn't spell "juice" until you helped me... thanks. To return the favour: Can you spell "multiple knee surgeries"?

From what I've heard recently, there was concerns about his knees when we drafted him, but he was such a great prospect that most of the league downplayed it.

 

[Harry]

I agree with Russ on this one. It's a hard thing to say, but I wonder how much the loss of his mom has impacted his focus. She really kept him on target and pushed him to be better at everything. He has regressed the season, statistically as well as overall impact.

I like what he could do, but he would be a huge risk at #3. The problem I have said all along is that this draft has more hidden land mines, than budding stars. He is tough call. It would take much better handling than the Cards have historically exhibited.

 

[Rats]

Originally posted by Harry
I agree with Russ on this one. It's a hard thing to say, but I wonder how much the loss of his mom has impacted his focus. She really kept him on target and pushed him to be better at everything. He has regressed the season, statistically as well as overall impact.

I like what he could do, but he would be a huge risk at #3. The problem I have said all along is that this draft has more hidden land mines, than budding stars. He is tough call. It would take much better handling than the Cards have historically exhibited.

Harry with a new staff in place I am not ready to give up on Bryant as a DT. He has quicks off the snap and could command a double team and let a Lb or quick DE in the backfield. I am watching Grady Jackson whom GB signed and wonder if a middle clogger like him or Wilfork wouldn't really be a solidifyer. These kind of guys like you say need motivation to perform at a high level but all players need that. The new coaching staff is going to have to make all the differance in that area. Drafts are crap shoots everyone knows it so know one is really right or wrong as a pick at 3. Wilfork at 3 would be no more of a risk at 3 then say a Gamble or a Strait. Thats why you have to take the best athelete available and fill holes to be a successful team.h

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Why is it that anytime someone is outrageously strong, they are accused of "juicing"? Wadsworth wasn't that "type" of guy.

I know it might be difficult for some to believe that it is impossible for someone to increase their body weight and muscle mass 35 % in 2 years, without using HGH or Juice. Florida State is notorious for these monumental weight and strength gains. They have run as dirty a program as there is. Oh , coincidentally, huge weight gains and muscle mass cause deterioration of and breakdown of major joints. Andre fell off the face of the Earth after one huge contract. Probably just a coincidence.

 

[artp]

I know it might be difficult for some to believe that it is impossible for someone to increase their body weight and muscle mass 35 % in 2 years, without using HGH or Juice. Florida State is notorious for these monumental weight and strength gains. They have run as dirty a program as there is. Oh , coincidentally, huge weight gains and muscle mass cause deterioration of and breakdown of major joints. Andre fell off the face of the Earth after one huge contract. Probably just a coincidence.
________________________________________________
I don't know how to include an earlier post, so this is the best I can do......

Does anyone remember FSU DE J Reynolds? He's another high draft pick bust from FSU. Wilfork is anything but a "sure thing".
....and I know he is a Hurricane.

 

[Loyal Card 17]

gaining 65 lbs muscels in two years is not very hard. all football players have is time. working out 4-5 hours a day is not uncommon. how many people on this board work out at least 1 hour a day. for that matter 1 hour a week. wadsworth knees gave out. everyone was cheering for him before he retired. now back to subject of willfork. he is a monster in the middle. i don't expect 10-20 sacks a season from him. tell me how many dt in the nfl are getting that many sacks. warren sapp isn't. the dt is suppose to cloge the middle up in the running game and push the pocket in on the passing game. no more no less. vince willfork can do that on the next level. if manning is gone by #3 then i say draft the big dt. then draft phillip rivers in the second round. of course all this discussion is useless until we see who is hired as the cardinals new head coach.

 

[Loyal Card 17]

vince willfork is a stud. a dt supposed to cloge the middle in the running game and put pressure up the middle in the passing game. for a dt to 6-8 sacks a season, can be compared to a de getting 12-18 sacks in a season. the only bad thing that reading on this board about willfork is that he is overweight. nothing on his ability to play. if weight the only reason why you don't want the cardinals to pick this man, then your are judging talent challenge. i bet willfork can lose the weight just as fast as he gained it. oh my god people wake up. weight is a minor problem. the last time i checked 325 lbs is a great weight for a dt. look at ted washington and sam adams. both of them have a superbowl ring. both of them have made it to the pro bowl. they both weigh over 350 lbs. the question about a player is can he play. vince willfork can play. he may not be making every tackle and every sack, but he will take pressure off the de and linebackers.

 

[JeffGollin]

Harry with a new staff in place I am not ready to give up on Bryant as a DT.
Vaild point, but Bryant appears to be more of a Kenny King tweener DT/DE and penetrator than he does a dominant wide-body gap plugger.

We're still not where we should be with regard to inside stoutness or toughness. Depending on his "questionables", a monster DT like Wilfork could be the answer. But I agree with Harry. Land Mine City - especially at #3.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Re: Re: Wilfork

Originally posted by PACardsFan
Russ,
You can't be serious comparing this guy to Swann. Swann had it all before the injuries. He simply dominated - was equally adept at stuffing the run & penetrating the pocket. I'm a Syracuse fan & watched plenty of Big East football over the years. Wilfork is TERRIBLY out of shape & we'd be crazy to draft this guy AT ALL! He reminds me of Gerald Warren of the Browns (BUST!!). People have callled him a Baby Sapp. He doesn't have the leadership of Sapp nor the MOTOR. This guy has big time BUST potential. I wouldn't touch him unless he fell to the 2nd round.

I agree about the weight but I do standby the Swann comparison and remember I was a HUGE Swann fan. What made Eric unique was the freakish combination of speed, strength and explosion off the snap.

Wilfork is not as tall but he has that same freakish explosion and strength, he's just never been in really good shape. The guy is a phenomenal athlete, my concern with him is the same one I had with Jimmy kennedy at Penn State, if the lure of NFL riches isn't enough to motivate them to get in shape and stay in shape, what is? Wilfork is a better player than Kennedy but he's got to do some serious conditioning work and he has to stick to it.

 

[Southpaw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Wilfork

Originally posted by Russ Smith
I agree about the weight but I do standby the Swann comparison and remember I was a HUGE Swann fan. What made Eric unique was the freakish combination of speed, strength and explosion off the snap.

Wilfork is not as tall but he has that same freakish explosion and strength, he's just never been in really good shape. The guy is a phenomenal athlete, my concern with him is the same one I had with Jimmy kennedy at Penn State, if the lure of NFL riches isn't enough to motivate them to get in shape and stay in shape, what is? Wilfork is a better player than Kennedy but he's got to do some serious conditioning work and he has to stick to it.

Started career at 377 pounds and is down to 325. Sounds, to me, he is getting serious.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Loyal Card 17
vince willfork is a stud. a dt supposed to cloge the middle in the running game and put pressure up the middle in the passing game. for a dt to 6-8 sacks a season, can be compared to a de getting 12-18 sacks in a season. the only bad thing that reading on this board about willfork is that he is overweight. nothing on his ability to play. if weight the only reason why you don't want the cardinals to pick this man, then your are judging talent challenge. i bet willfork can lose the weight just as fast as he gained it. oh my god people wake up. weight is a minor problem. the last time i checked 325 lbs is a great weight for a dt. look at ted washington and sam adams. both of them have a superbowl ring. both of them have made it to the pro bowl. they both weigh over 350 lbs. the question about a player is can he play. vince willfork can play. he may not be making every tackle and every sack, but he will take pressure off the de and linebackers.

They LIST him at 325, I don't think he really is although admittedly it's not easy to look at a guy on a 27" tv screen and guess his weight. He does look slimmer than he as times in his career. The problem is his weight has gone up and down his whole career. Go back to last year predraft and read some of the stuff I wrote about Jimmy Kennedy, he went through 2 a day workouts, got in shape, and shot back up the draft boards at the combine. Then in the post combine workouts he started gaining the weight back, workouts were less impressive, and he fell. WHen he finally signed with the Rams the initial reports all said the Rams were VERY disappointed at how out of shape he was, he barely played this year.

Guys THAT big tend to get that big for a reason, yes they certainly CAN lose the weight, but a lot of them don't or they can only do so through crash diets which take away strength and stamina.

At 325 I would be leading the campaign to draft Vince Wilfork, I just don't think he's shown yet he can get there and stay there.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wilfork

Originally posted by wallyburger
Started career at 377 pounds and is down to 325. Sounds, to me, he is getting serious.

I hate to just make comparisons since everyone is unique, but last year this time everyone was talking about how Jimmy Kennedy was 400 pounds as a freshman at Penn State and about 320 now. Prior to his junior year he got down to 292 pounds, and was awful because he'd gone on some crash diet. Had a good combine showing after 2 a day workouts, and then post combine started to blow up again and fell before the draft. SIgned late, reported out of shape and barely played this year.

Wilfork is a much better player than Kennedy, but the point is Wilfork losing 50 pounds is only impressive if he can actually stay at 325. Every year the draft is full of guys who bulked up or slimmed down for the combines, they get drafted high, and then revert to their normal size. At 325 Wilfork is a perennial pro bowler, at 350 he's a guy who'll be good for 3-4 years and then break down with injuries. So there's absolutely a risk that has to be calculated if you pick him.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
They LIST him at 325, I don't think he really is although admittedly it's not easy to look at a guy on a 27" tv screen and guess his weight. He does look slimmer than he as times in his career. The problem is his weight has gone up and down his whole career. Go back to last year predraft and read some of the stuff I wrote about Jimmy Kennedy, he went through 2 a day workouts, got in shape, and shot back up the draft boards at the combine. Then in the post combine workouts he started gaining the weight back, workouts were less impressive, and he fell. WHen he finally signed with the Rams the initial reports all said the Rams were VERY disappointed at how out of shape he was, he barely played this year.

Guys THAT big tend to get that big for a reason, yes they certainly CAN lose the weight, but a lot of them don't or they can only do so through crash diets which take away strength and stamina.

At 325 I would be leading the campaign to draft Vince Wilfork, I just don't think he's shown yet he can get there and stay there.

377 his 1st year. 345 last year. 325 this year. Sounds progressive to me. But then, you can have Tommie Harris at 265 pounds and not have to worry about his weight being too high. Of course he will get pushed backward 10 yards on every play by some 325 pound guard. With Eli and Ben gone, the Cards have to take somebody, yet it seems anyone mentioned on this board comes up covered in warts.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Originally posted by Loyal Card 17
gaining 65 lbs muscels in two years is not very hard. all football players have is time. working out 4-5 hours a day is not uncommon. how many people on this board work out at least 1 hour a day. for that matter 1 hour a week. wadsworth knees gave out. everyone was cheering for him before he retired. now back to subject of willfork. he is a monster in the middle. i don't expect 10-20 sacks a season from him. tell me how many dt in the nfl are getting that many sacks. warren sapp isn't. the dt is suppose to cloge the middle up in the running game and push the pocket in on the passing game. no more no less. vince willfork can do that on the next level. if manning is gone by #3 then i say draft the big dt. then draft phillip rivers in the second round. of course all this discussion is useless until we see who is hired as the cardinals new head coach.

Great! 3 1st rounders on our dline and we would STILL have the worst one in the league, unless coaching can make the difference.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by wallyburger
I know it might be difficult for some to believe that it is impossible for someone to increase their body weight and muscle mass 35 % in 2 years, without using HGH or Juice. Florida State is notorious for these monumental weight and strength gains. They have run as dirty a program as there is. Oh , coincidentally, huge weight gains and muscle mass cause deterioration of and breakdown of major joints. Andre fell off the face of the Earth after one huge contract. Probably just a coincidence.

No offense, but that's ********. I have a friend who is a serious weightlifter, and I saw him gain that much in a year without the use of any supplements...

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
No offense, but that's ********. I have a friend who is a serious weightlifter, and I saw him gain that much in a year without the use of any supplements...

Maybe he was anorexic and found food.

 

[Loyal Card 17]

russ makes a good point by saying everyone is different. every player has different things that get their juices flowing. like i said before weight can be controlled. not a real problem.

swd1974, coaching makes all the difference in the world. look at the cowgirls. they have the same team as they did last year. parcell took them to the playoffs in the first season. that is due to coaching. same goes for the bengals. coaching is very important and the cards should get the best coach out their and pay the man.