Will Kyler Murray be an Arizona Cardinal in 2024

[BirdGangThing]

Lots of talk lately about the next draft and how Kyler Murray won't have much to work with upon his return - some would say Monti isn't just setting up the team to fail this year - he's also setting up Murray

idk

I'm not sure that's the case. I don't think Kyler will have to go undefeated to keep his gig or anything like that but I do think Monti wants to see how Kyler responds

Two types of talented QBs in this League imo

A) QBs who will always do whatever it takes to win and get better no matter what

B) QBs who feel they're better than the team around them and it's not their fault when they lose

This current tank project should help Monti figure out which QB he has - and whether or not to roll with him moving forward

 

[FB94]

2024 Yes! Now 2025 is the ?

 

[BirdGangThing]

I can't even decide lol

 

[kerouac9]

I think we're gonna hear a lot of talk about the next draft over the next 10 months because the consensus here is that we're not going to have a lot to look forward to otherwise.

The thought of starting over again at QB is sickening to me. I'm a Kyler skeptic, but either Maye or Williams have ceilings that are, like, 120% better than Kyler Murray, and in most scenarios are about as good as him. The problem is that drafting a QB (and getting out from under Kyler Murray's contract) is the kind of thing a front office does because it doesn't want to get fired. "Don't do anything to get fired" is kind of the NEP exec MO historically. Not "Let's put together a championship team."

Kyler's contract is going to look like a bargain as early as Week 1.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

IF the trade attempt rumors are true then you have to assume the cardinals are going to be trading him the second they get the chance.

Monti is doing his best to rid this team of just about every player that has worn the red bird on their helmet the last 2-3 years and start over completely with his own players.

The feeling around the league is Keim was a terrible evaluater of talent. Best to scrap all his players ( including K1) and get WINNERS into the fold.

 

[Outerlimits]

I think we're gonna hear a lot of talk about the next draft over the next 10 months because the consensus here is that we're not going to have a lot to look forward to otherwise.

The thought of starting over again at QB is sickening to me. I'm a Kyler skeptic, but either Maye or Williams have ceilings that are, like, 120% better than Kyler Murray, and in most scenarios are about as good as him. The problem is that drafting a QB (and getting out from under Kyler Murray's contract) is the kind of thing a front office does because it doesn't want to get fired. "Don't do anything to get fired" is kind of the NEP exec MO historically. Not "Let's put together a championship team."

Kyler's contract is going to look like a bargain as early as Week 1.

I'm not sure how his contract will look anything like a bargain if he continues to play like he has since returning to the roster after injury in 2021. His play during that long stretch often ranged between putrid and mediocre and included one of the worst playoff performances by a QB in history. Many QBs making much less money looked far better.

Now, we all hope most of the issues were Kliff and Kyler starts thriving under the new regime. However, if that doesn't occur I'm not sure keeping him and hoping the couple year long trend reverses is "putting together a championship team".

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not sure how his contract will look anything like a bargain if he continues to play like he has since returning to the roster after injury in 2021. His play during that long stretch often ranged between putrid and mediocre and included one of the worst playoff performances by a QB in history. Many QBs making much less money looked far better.

Now, we all hope most of the issues were Kliff and Kyler starts thriving under the new regime. However, if that doesn't occur I'm not sure keeping him and hoping the couple year long trend reverses is "putting together a championship team".

Meh. Here's Kyler's stats since that injury against the Packers. It's a full season's worth of games.

3800 yards passing, 21 passing TDs, 10 INTs, 964 yards rushing, 5 more rushing TDs (this includes the one passing attempt he had against New England, FWIW, and not the playoff game. I think that's a foundation to build on. If that's Kyler Murray's floor (because he's been the guy who looked like one of the most exciting players in the NFL for a good sample size before this one), I think you still feel okay if he's the 8th or 9th highest-paid QB in the NFL.

That's where he'll be by mid-summer or so once Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert re-up. Also, Patrick Mahomes is going to get a raise.

 

[football karma]

Meh. Here's Kyler's stats since that injury against the Packers. It's a full season's worth of games.

3800 yards passing, 21 passing TDs, 10 INTs, 964 yards rushing, 5 more rushing TDs (this includes the one passing attempt he had against New England, FWIW, and not the playoff game. I think that's a foundation to build on. If that's Kyler Murray's floor (because he's been the guy who looked like one of the most exciting players in the NFL for a good sample size before this one), I think you still feel okay if he's the 8th or 9th highest-paid QB in the NFL.

That's where he'll be by mid-summer or so once Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert re-up. Also, Patrick Mahomes is going to get a raise.

heck: ill take 2020 Kyler Murray as well: 67% comp, 3,971 yards for 7.1 per. 26 TD / 12 Int + 819 rushing and 11 tds

you can win a lot of football games with that production from the QB -- and not in the SF 49er with Jimmy G way either.

 

[Chopper0080]

If Kyler wasn't a complete size outlier or was a more traditional face of the franchise type QB, I don't believe they would move on from him. Because he is 5'10, struggles with staying healthy, and isn't the marketing golden goose Bidwill wants, I will be more shocked if he stays in the scenario the Cardinals pick 1.

 

[Harry]

The problem is his cost is so high it’s very hard to build around him. Drafting the right QB buys you 5 years to build a team with max flexibility. Murray also has a $12 mil roster bonus in 2025. You can‘t make him an after 6/1 cut. He’d hit the cap for $30 mil. Overthecap shows this differently (- roster bonus). I think they’re wrong, as PFN notes, “Still, teams don’t always want to wait until June 2 to release a player because he could have roster bonuses or other guarantees that could kick in during the interim.”

 

[kerouac9]

The problem is his cost is so high it’s very hard to build around him. Drafting the right QB buys you 5 years to build a team with max flexibility. Murray also has a $12 mil roster bonus in 2025. You can‘t make him an after 6/1 cut. He’d hit the cap for $30 mil. Overthecap shows this differently (- roster bonus). I think they’re wrong, as PFN notes, “Still, teams don’t always want to wait until June 2 to release a player because he could have roster bonuses or other guarantees that could kick in during the interim.”

His $51 million cap hold in 2024 is less than Watson and Prescott and in line with Stafford, Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes.

If Kyler Murray is playing like Daniel Jones, that's a problem. But if he's playing like the Kyler Murray we've seen the majority of the time, that's not a big deal.

 

[gamebird98]

Have already seen the " ceiling " for Murray....I don't think he gets any better than what we have seen. Time to cut our losses and move on. I don't believe he will ever win a championship. Tired of hearing "bad coaching "..."no talent around him"

 

[kerouac9]

Have already seen the " ceiling " for Murray....I don't think he gets any better than what we have seen. Time to cut our losses and move on. I don't believe he will ever win a championship. Tired of hearing "bad coaching "..."no talent around him"

The ceiling for Murray is runaway MVP. That's what we've seen.

 

[gamebird98]

WAS.....won't see it again. As defenses adjusted.....he has not evolved. The ceiling HAS BEEN seen.

 

[Zalixar]

The ceiling for Murray is runaway MVP. That's what we've seen.

Russell Wilson had some of those...how many MVP votes did he ever end up getting? And he is a pretty successful QB with consistent play, playoffs included.

Kyler has been up and down sporadically, within each season, with some late game heroics and stat padding in some absymal games. Everyone gets stats nowadays. Wildly inconsistent except for getting hurt.

It's been 4 years and next year won't count. We don't know his ceiling and maybe we've already seen it.

Do we gotta spend another $150 million and 6+ years in to see if he might finally be the QB we wish to imagine he can be?

Ooooooof

 

[kerouac9]

Russell Wilson had some of those...how many MVP votes did he ever end up getting? And he is a pretty successful QB with consistent play, playoffs included.

Kyler has been up and down sporadically, within each season, with some late game heroics and stat padding in some absymal games. Everyone gets stats nowadays. Wildly inconsistent except for getting hurt.

It's been 4 years and next year won't count. We don't know his ceiling and maybe we've already seen it.

Do we gotta spend another $150 million and 6+ years in to see if he might finally be the QB we wish to imagine he can be?

Ooooooof

Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl and made another. In 10 years with Wilson as the starter, the Seahawks missed the playoffs twice. That's about as good as it gets. What are we even talking about here.

Again, literally the week before the Packers game people were giving Kyler Murray the MVP. No one else was even close. That's his ceiling. The best he can be is the best player in the NFL.

If he consistently gets to 80% of his ceiling we'll see pocket Kirk Cousins. YMMV on whether that's good or bad.

I don't know if you have to spend another six years figuring out how close to or how often Kyler Murray will hit his ceiling, but I'm willing to spend another year figuring it out. You draft another QB #1 overall and you're basically hoping that he can be as good as Kyler Murray is, only more consistently.

 

[az jam]

I think that Monti and Gannon are sincere in building the team around Kyler. He will be 26 in August and could have 8 to 10 good years.

 

[Stout]

The ceiling for Murray is runaway MVP. That's what we've seen.

Not hardly. When was he a runaway MVP? The ceiling we've seen so far is flashes where he can look like a runaway MVP followed by injuries, poor play, bad habits, and losing.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

id say the first 8 games of the 11 win season he was almost a shoe-in but poor oline play exposed his weakness that im not sure he can overcome

I want very badly to be proven wrong about K1 but its going to take a lot of focus and hard work on his part...is he up to that challenge?

 

[Zalixar]

Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl and made another. In 10 years with Wilson as the starter, the Seahawks missed the playoffs twice. That's about as good as it gets. What are we even talking about here.

Again, literally the week before the Packers game people were giving Kyler Murray the MVP. No one else was even close. That's his ceiling. The best he can be is the best player in the NFL.

If he consistently gets to 80% of his ceiling we'll see pocket Kirk Cousins. YMMV on whether that's good or bad.

I don't know if you have to spend another six years figuring out how close to or how often Kyler Murray will hit his ceiling, but I'm willing to spend another year figuring it out. You draft another QB #1 overall and you're basically hoping that he can be as good as Kyler Murray is, only more consistently.

Murray was a top MVP candidate for 7 games, big woop. That's  almost meaningless. Is that really what we are going to be proud of?

Wilson was an MVP candidate plenty of times but could never keep up to actually being one. Is Kyler really going to be able to surpass that? It means 7 games MVP is easily a facade, despite Wilson being an actual good and consistent QB.

If we could consistently get 80% of his ceiling, sure, if, but when we going to see that consistently? That's extremely hopeful, not counting injuries of course.

Part of the idea is Kyler isn't bad enough to get us a top 5 pick, so we most likely won't be in this position again to draft a top QB without trading up... unless we have a year like last year and we totally could suck into a draft with bad QB's.

 

[kerouac9]

Not hardly. When was he a runaway MVP? The ceiling we've seen so far is flashes where he can look like a runaway MVP followed by injuries, poor play, bad habits, and losing.

Through eight games he was on pace for 4800 yards passing, 36 TDs, 15 INTs, almost 9 YPA and six more rushing TDs. The week of the Packers game on The Ringer NFL Podcast they were saying that Murray was the MVP as if it were a fait accompli.

If you could find another eight game stretch of play like that for a guy who ended up being a scrub, I'd be interested to hear it. The floor for Murray is probably, like, pocket Jared Goff or something.

 

[kerouac9]

Murray was a top MVP candidate for 7 games, big woop. That's  almost meaningless. Is that really what we are going to be proud of?

Wilson was an MVP candidate plenty of times but could never keep up to actually being one. Is Kyler really going to be able to surpass that? It means 7 games MVP is easily a facade, despite Wilson being an actual good and consistent QB.

If we could consistently get 80% of his ceiling, sure, if, but when we going to see that consistently? That's extremely hopeful, not counting injuries of course.

Part of the idea is Kyler isn't bad enough to get us a top 5 pick, so we most likely won't be in this position again to draft a top QB without trading up... unless we have a year like last year and we totally could suck into a draft with bad QB's.

So are you saying you wouldn't accept Russ Wilson's career arc as acceptable for Kyler? You brought up Wilson, not me.

Lots of players are MVP candidates for a while and fade. Jared Goff was won. Matt Ryan won an MVP. I'd rather have Kyler Murray than Matt Ryan at any point of his career.

Despite everything on this board, the only QBs who will start 2023 in the NFL that, knowing everything we know about Kyler, I'd definitely rather have are:

Patrick Mahomes
Justin Herbert
Joe Burrow
Josh Allen
Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Hurts

That's it. The guys I have to think a lot about include Aaron Rodgers, Dak Prescott (I like Dak more than most), Lamar Jackson, and Deshaun Watson (brainswept edition).

Kyler at his best is among the three or five best quarterbacks in the NFL. Kyler in his average state over the first five years of his career is a top 12 QB. I think his value is high enough that I want to see how he comes back from injury and in a pro-style offense.

 

[Stout]

So are you saying you wouldn't accept Russ Wilson's career arc as acceptable for Kyler? You brought up Wilson, not me.

Lots of players are MVP candidates for a while and fade. Jared Goff was won. Matt Ryan won an MVP. I'd rather have Kyler Murray than Matt Ryan at any point of his career.

Despite everything on this board, the only QBs who will start 2023 in the NFL that, knowing everything we know about Kyler, I'd definitely rather have are:

Patrick Mahomes
Justin Herbert
Joe Burrow
Josh Allen
Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Hurts

That's it. The guys I have to think a lot about include Aaron Rodgers, Dak Prescott (I like Dak more than most), Lamar Jackson, and Deshaun Watson (brainswept edition).

Kyler at his best is among the three or five best quarterbacks in the NFL. Kyler in his average state over the first five years of his career is a top 12 QB. I think his value is high enough that I want to see how he comes back from injury and in a pro-style offense.

Except that's only at his best, and we've never seen anything approaching consistently near his best, let alone his actual best on a consistent basis. The question is rather what is he at his worst, and how often is he at his worst? How is his worst compared to those top QBs? Kyler is ass at his worst compared to a Burrow or a Mahomes. Not even in the same league.

At his best *snort* If his head was on right and we could know he would ever be at his best for even a good part of the time, sure, KM would be awesome. Problem is, he's about as opposite of clutch as it is possible to be. Oh, sure, he can flash in the early regular season (see Raiders game), but when it's on him to get the team over the hump? Major choker. Toss injury-prone into the mix, too.

We are hoping he puts it together moving forward, because we haven't seen it thus far. All we've seen thus far is that we were really, really dumb to give him that big contract. Wish I could've seen that coming lol

 

[WisconsinCard]

He's got a lot of money riding on it. So I think he'll try his best over the next two years. I think he knows if he can finish out this contact, he is set for life and will walk away from the game. Maybe go play pickleball.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

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