Will the Suns draft Marquese Chriss at #4

[AzStevenCal]

I was there. Everybody wanted Kobe but when he went to Charlotte at 13 then the buzz was Wallace. There were a good number of boos when the Suns took Nash.

sent from a fone

I wasn't there but I do remember all of us expecting it to be Kobe and I remember the interest in John Wallace. As for the boos, that seems to happen for just about everybody.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't post often in the Suns forum, but I read it nearly everyday. I think the Suns need to go with Chriss. Sure he is a horrible rebounder and fouls out all of the time, but you really have to take into consideration that Amare was similar when he came out. Amare was really raw his first season, and he was probably further down the path towards being an NBA big when he came out of HS. Chriss is a better shooter and has more offensive moves, but he probably developed those skills back when he was a shooting guard.

Bender scares the crap out of me. I remember Skitish-whatever his name was, and they sound like clones. Big man with guard-like skills. Technically sound. Not very productive in Europe. Yeah, similar stories. Euro bigs just tend to be a lot softer. Chriss doesn't play a tough guys game, and this might sound like a bias, but I think Americans just tend to be raised to be tougher than Europeans on average.

The Suns could take another guard, but there is an obvious log jam. Buddy Hield is a great shooter/scorer, but he's not going to play the 4 and the Suns have a younger guy (Booker) who is already going to fill the role that Hield would fill and will likely be a much better player.

Taking any PG that high would be pure folly unless you think you're going to be getting the next Curry/Paul, and none of this drafts PGs look to be in that class. I think the most obvious choice comes down to Chriss/Bender and Bender just hasn't been productive enough to project how he will perform in the NBA.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't post often in the Suns forum, but I read it nearly everyday. I think the Suns need to go with Chriss. Sure he is a horrible rebounder and fouls out all of the time, but you really have to take into consideration that Amare was similar when he came out. Amare was really raw his first season, and he was probably further down the path towards being an NBA big when he came out of HS. Chriss is a better shooter and has more offensive moves, but he probably developed those skills back when he was a shooting guard.

Bender scares the crap out of me. I remember Skitish-whatever his name was, and they sound like clones. Big man with guard-like skills. Technically sound. Not very productive in Europe. Yeah, similar stories. Euro bigs just tend to be a lot softer. Chriss doesn't play a tough guys game, and this might sound like a bias, but I think Americans just tend to be raised to be tougher than Europeans on average.

The Suns could take another guard, but there is an obvious log jam. Buddy Hield is a great shooter/scorer, but he's not going to play the 4 and the Suns have a younger guy (Booker) who is already going to fill the role that Hield would fill and will likely be a much better player.

Taking any PG that high would be pure folly unless you think you're going to be getting the next Curry/Paul, and none of this drafts PGs look to be in that class. I think the most obvious choice comes down to Chriss/Bender and Bender just hasn't been productive enough to project how he will perform in the NBA.

IMO there is no way in the world that Chriss is as NBA ready as Amare and he misses by a long shot. I'm not exaggerating, I cannot remember a more defensively unaware/uninvolved player than Marquese. And his offense is part highlight material and part non-existent.

As a young NBA player, he'll be the PF equivalent of Gerald Green IMO. Lots of pretty plays but a big-time net negative. I draft Chriss, if and only if, I'm convinced from interviews and research that he has a drive to excel. His game falls in the coach-killer category right now so you need to be confident that he's coachable and has an off-the-chart work ethic. And you need to be able to live with his up and down game for a few years. Several years.

As for Bender, I have concerns too but not about his court time. There were legitimate reasons he didn't get much playing time and the fact he was 17 was only part of it. He's not mentally soft, we know that much about him from his history. He seems to be a very well rounded player but I really haven't seen anything that makes me confident any of those skills are at an NBA level. Hopefully Ryan and our scouts have a much clearer picture about his future as he's pure mystery to us. I don't worry about Skiti or others from that era though as international scouting was very inadequate back then, it's far more developed and accurate today IMO. There's still a lot of misses but that's true of NCAA players too.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Wow. IMO there is no way in the world that Chriss is anywhere near as NBA ready as Amare and he misses by a long shot. I'm not exaggerating, I cannot remember a more defensively unaware/uninvolved player than Marquese. And his offense is part highlight material and part non-existent.

As a young NBA player, he'll be the PF equivalent of Gerald Green IMO. Lots of pretty plays but a big-time net negative. I draft Chriss, if and only if, I'm convinced from interviews and research that he has a drive to excel. His game falls in the coach-killer category right now so you need to be confident that he's coachable and has an off-the-chart work ethic. And you need to be able to live with his up and down game for a few years. Several years.

As for Bender, I have concerns too but not about his court time. There were legitimate reasons he didn't get much playing time and the fact he was 17 was only part of it. He's not mentally soft, we know that much about him from his history. He seems to be a very well rounded player but I really haven't seen anything that makes me confident any of those skills are at an NBA level. Hopefully Ryan and our scouts have a much clearer picture about his future as he's pure mystery to us. I don't worry about Skiti or others from that era though as international scouting was very inadequate back then, it's far more developed and accurate today IMO. There's still a lot of misses but that's true of NCAA players too.

 

[leclerc]

I doubt Bender is soft. He's been playing with older ruffians for quite a while and his team mates rave about him (in the SI video I saw). Off course he's still a teenager so he needs 3-4 years to grow into his body and put on muscle. But he is a legit 7 footer with refined skills.

Dragan has been playing basketball since he was a kid. Him and his brother moved to Split when he was about 13 to play basketball so his fundamentals are better than Chriss' to put it mildly. I bet slinslin will argue this but it's true AFAIK.

I hope we get Bender but if McD and the team thinks the drunk basset dog will be a star I trust them to make the right choice.

5 days remaining.

I will be surprised and disappointed if they go with a guard at #4 "but again" (to quote EJ) if that's their guy I will be excited to see his game and progress.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Bender just has the size and skills. He can run, pass, shoot. Plus he is the youngest player in the draft and still growing. Its just a mix that's hard to beat. I was really against Bender earlier. He could be a huge bust.

There is just something about Chriss that makes me nervous. He has gotten good minutes and failed to rebound. Motor is also a consideration for Chriss. Bender has a great motor by all accounts.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Bender just has the size and skills. He can run, pass, shoot. Plus he is the youngest player in the draft and still growing. Its just a mix that's hard to beat. I was really against Bender earlier. He could be a huge bust.

There is just something about Chriss that makes me nervous. He has gotten good minutes and failed to rebound. Motor is also a consideration for Chriss. Bender has a great motor by all accounts.

+

Obviously the big advantage for Chriss is his athleticism. Bender is a smarter player by far and he's also much more skilled. But until you see him against NBA level talent it's just so hard to judge. All we can really hope for this season is that Ryan gets his man rather than having to settle for the next best prospect.

If he's in love with one of these guys whether it's Chriss, Bender, Brown, Murray, Hield or whoever, I like our chances of landing a very good player. If he isn't in love with one of them I expect to see him try to trade down to about Denver's spot and failing that, he'll likely take the safer pick of Ellenson or Sabonis. The more I think about it, the less I believe he'll take a big gamble at 4.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bender just has the size and skills. He can run, pass, shoot. Plus he is the youngest player in the draft and still growing. Its just a mix that's hard to beat. I was really against Bender earlier. He could be a huge bust.

There is just something about Chriss that makes me nervous. He has gotten good minutes and failed to rebound. Motor is also a consideration for Chriss. Bender has a great motor by all accounts.

I think Chriss' narrow body build concerns me the most. I question whether he can develop into a physical body. Amare's body matured with time although he was never a good defender. I'm not sure if Chriss' body can ever mature like a Amare.

 

[GatorAZ]

Amare was 20 years old throughout his rookie season while Bender and Chriss are still 18. Bender won't turn 19 until after the season starts. Both guys shouldn't have trouble putting on good weight eventually.

I think we could trade back with Denver and still get one of them.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Bender is much more like Tskitishvili IMO, during the draft, many said he was Dirk, but with MORE skill. He will be playing in Lebanon in 5-8 years, because Euro players are soft, they all play bench roles for "elite" teams. Reality is that Dirk was a contested choice, he worked out and is the model now. Remember the Suns turned down Dirk for Pat Garity. We have Foamy as the owner, Foamy will never get it correct, he would force RYAN to draft the quick fix "Bender" over the better player. As long as Foamy is the D, The Suns are RC Cola. Gingers are usually like this, mainly because they get rejected by women who do not find red head men attractive, Foamy has money so he is as attractive as a brown person with a minor job. Yeah girls don't really like gingers unless they can pay for stuff. And believe me, Ginger's wife is hitting a real man with real hair, skin tone etc..Ginger, gets mad and signs the closest thing to a ginger - Euro boy.

Suns Draft Bender. bank it

 

[JCSunsfan]

Bender is much more like Tskitishvili IMO, during the draft, many said he was Dirk, but with MORE skill. He will be playing in Lebanon in 5-8 years, because Euro players are soft, they all play bench roles for "elite" teams. Reality is that Dirk was a contested choice, he worked out and is the model now. Remember the Suns turned down Dirk for Pat Garity. We have Foamy as the owner, Foamy will never get it correct, he would force RYAN to draft the quick fix "Bender" over the better player. As long as Foamy is the D, The Suns are RC Cola. Gingers are usually like this, mainly because they get rejected by women who do not find red head men attractive, Foamy has money so he is as attractive as a brown person with a minor job. Yeah girls don't really like gingers unless they can pay for stuff. And believe me, Ginger's wife is hitting a real man with real hair, skin tone etc..Ginger, gets mad and signs the closest thing to a ginger - Euro boy.

Suns Draft Bender. bank it

Are you drunk?

 

[Sunburn]

Would you rather have Chriss, Bender, or Okafor? Which is BPA between the three? Personally, I think it's Okafor.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Would you rather have Chriss, Bender, or Okafor? Which is BPA between the three? Personally, I think it's Okafor.

You're really judging someone whose game is mostly ready for the NBA against 2 players that are still in the untapped potential group. Seriously, if you threw Ronnie Price into that mix he'd come out on top of Chriss and probably Bender too and I don't want him with the 4th pick either.

I'm not an Okafor fan. I didn't watch Philly play often so most of my opinion is based on stats. His stats scare me. A guy that is supposedly so polished, so developed, takes more than 70% of his shots from within 10 feet and still only shoots 50%? Couple that with a high usage rate and a reported reluctance to pass and I don't want him even before you get to his defensive shortcomings. It's scary to think that we might draft someone at 4 that will never be anywhere near as good as Okafor but I think I'd rather take that gamble than buy into Jahlil.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You're really judging someone whose game is mostly ready for the NBA against 2 players that are still in the untapped potential group. Seriously, if you threw Ronnie Price into that mix he'd come out on top of Chriss and probably Bender too and I don't want him with the 4th pick either.

I'm not an Okafor fan. I didn't watch Philly play often so most of my opinion is based on stats. His stats scare me. A guy that is supposedly so polished, so developed, takes more than 70% of his shots from within 10 feet and still only shoots 50%? Couple that with a high usage rate and a reported reluctance to pass and I don't want him even before you get to his defensive shortcomings. It's scary to think that we might draft someone at 4 that will never be anywhere near as good as Okafor but I think I'd rather take that gamble than buy into Jahlil.

I can see that but, that Philly team was totally disfunctional last year. Everyone knew they had no interest in winning and actually WANTED to lose. So, what incentive is there for a young player to play team ball. For a competitive player, it would really mess with your head. I know fan's love tanking at times, but it is horrible for players, especially young ones.

 

[slinslin]

Chriss, no question.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I can see that but, that Philly team was totally disfunctional last year. Everyone knew they had no interest in winning and actually WANTED to lose. So, what incentive is there for a young player to play team ball. For a competitive player, it would really mess with your head. I know fan's love tanking at times, but it is horrible for players, especially young ones.

I know, it's certainly crossed my mind. OTOH; he's young, he's in house, they know him far better than we do yet they're still trying to trade him (reportedly). He just hasn't had the off-the-court issues to warrant this. And then there's the obvious defensive concerns.

The league is moving away from players like him. One way players that take up a lot of space are dinosaurs in today's game. Even someone like Drummond, who far exceeds Okafor, is tough to build around. I'd certainly take that gamble if Andre was available but it's questionable for the Okafor, Monroe or maybe even Cousins type players that rack up points and losses. The only reason I might do the straight up swap at 4 is that he will almost definitely be better than Chriss.

Don't get me wrong on Okafor, I think he'd make us a little better right from the start. But to take full advantage of his skills we'd need to dump Bledsoe and Knight and maybe TJ too. We'd need to surround him with a good pass first point guard, a 3 and D small forward and a power forward that plays outside-in but can help protect the rim too. And we'd have to convince Jahlil that his range does not extend beyond a couple of feet from the hoop and that his first option should always be to pass out of the double team when they've locked him up outside his range. Right now his instinct is to shoot no matter what.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Chriss would be a need pick. I would like the sun's to draft Brown witch would be a safer pick.

 

[Errntknght]

Chriss is a very bad rebounder and that translates to the NBA. He's also a bad defender - more of non-defender to be accurate. He strikes me as the second coming of Michael Beasley. I'd gamble on him at #28, unless Ulis or Maker were available. Among Chriss, Bender and Okafor i'd go with Bender but I'd rather take Labissiere or Sabonis as they could well both be gone at #13. If we were searching for a C, I'd take Sabonis for his Bball IQ but at PF, I'd take Skal for his shooting.

 

[Krangodnzr]

IMO there is no way in the world that Chriss is as NBA ready as Amare and he misses by a long shot. I'm not exaggerating, I cannot remember a more defensively unaware/uninvolved player than Marquese. And his offense is part highlight material and part non-existent.

As a young NBA player, he'll be the PF equivalent of Gerald Green IMO. Lots of pretty plays but a big-time net negative. I draft Chriss, if and only if, I'm convinced from interviews and research that he has a drive to excel. His game falls in the coach-killer category right now so you need to be confident that he's coachable and has an off-the-chart work ethic. And you need to be able to live with his up and down game for a few years. Several years.

As for Bender, I have concerns too but not about his court time. There were legitimate reasons he didn't get much playing time and the fact he was 17 was only part of it. He's not mentally soft, we know that much about him from his history. He seems to be a very well rounded player but I really haven't seen anything that makes me confident any of those skills are at an NBA level. Hopefully Ryan and our scouts have a much clearer picture about his future as he's pure mystery to us. I don't worry about Skiti or others from that era though as international scouting was very inadequate back then, it's far more developed and accurate today IMO. There's still a lot of misses but that's true of NCAA players too.

'

Amare wasn't anywhere close to NBA ready his first season. Dude looked really lost and while he had a monster game against Garnett, all he could really do was take the ball to hole hard. At least you see SOME jumpers from Chriss.

Chriss and Amare are similar in the fact that the only thing they had going from them coming in was that they were both monster athletes. Chriss is more of a finesse athlete, where as Amare was powerful and quick. Amare was not a good defender (never really was), nor was he a good rebounder right away. Remember he was called the blackhole for a reason....once he got the ball you knew he was going to try and drive to basket or it was going to be a turnover.

 

[AzStevenCal]

'

Amare wasn't anywhere close to NBA ready his first season. Dude looked really lost and while he had a monster game against Garnett, all he could really do was take the ball to hole hard. At least you see SOME jumpers from Chriss.

Chriss and Amare are similar in the fact that the only thing they had going from them coming in was that they were both monster athletes. Chriss is more of a finesse athlete, where as Amare was powerful and quick. Amare was not a good defender (never really was), nor was he a good rebounder right away. Remember he was called the blackhole for a reason....once he got the ball you knew he was going to try and drive to basket or it was going to be a turnover.

Amare was never as poor on defense as Chriss is. It's true that Marquese has more range and a better mid-game than Amare but Stoudemire has him beat in almost every other area. The almost complete lack of interest that Chriss shows will be exploited by every opponent. Amare was a one trick pony but few could handle that trick.

 

[Mainstreet]

I remember there were concerns about Amare's background before he was drafted (which caused him to fall to the Suns) but I never heard any question marks about his build. This is one of the reasons I do not want to compare Chriss to Amare. My concerns are how Chriss will develop physically.

 

[sunsfan88]

Bender just has the size and skills. He can run, pass, shoot. Plus he is the youngest player in the draft and still growing. Its just a mix that's hard to beat. I was really against Bender earlier. He could be a huge bust.

He's still very limited athletically and his shooting ability is questionable at best.

We just like to assume that he's a good shooter because he's a Euro player and most of them are known for their shooting but this kid, not so much.

He can't create off dribble for himself or others to save his life and sucks right now shooting off dribble especially. He's young so he could improve though.

 

[slinslin]

From what I can gather Marquese Chriss followed Earl Watson on twitter and "liked" a half dozen twitter posts that basically were saying things like "Hopefully Marquese Chriss is a Sun next week" and posts by Watson about his philosophy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/comments/4p7o9k/marquese_chriss_followed_earl_watson_on_twitter/

 

[slinslin]

I remember there were concerns about Amare's background before he was drafted (which caused him to fall to the Suns) but I never heard any question marks about his build. This is one of the reasons I do not want to compare Chriss to Amare. My concerns are how Chriss will develop physically.

Chriss is already 6'10 233lbs.

So he is pretty much developed already. He just needs to work out and get stronger. How Chriss develops physically is not of the questionmarks about him in my opinion.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Chriss is already 6'10 233lbs.

So he is pretty much developed already. He just needs to work out and get stronger. How Chriss develops physically is not of the questionmarks about him in my opinion.

No it probably isn't the question about Chriss. He has probably the second highest up-side in this draft and even if he doesn't have a chiseled physique, he is still almost unstoppable at times.

The real question should be: how often does a player with a low BBIQ and an inconsistent motor ever reach his potential? I don't know the answer to that but I'd say he better wow you in the interview and background check area, otherwise he's likely to get a few people fired.