With Fitz, it's not about the money-----

[Catfish]

I am very leery about the ability of our Front Office to secure an extension for Larry Fitzgerald so that he can remain a Cardinal for life. I say that, because, each time I hear Rod Graves comment on this matter, he says that they are prepared to, ("do everything possible to get this done"). But he almost always follows that statement with, "we intend to make him the highest paid player in Cardinal's history".

Mr. Graves, I seriously believe that you are about to 'miss your boat'. I don't believe money is nearly so important to Larry Fitzgerald, as is his ability to win a Super Bowl. I have never heard him complain about making too little money. I have, however, heard him say, (over and over), that he just wants to win a Super Bowl.

It is my belief that you cannot court Fitz by offering him money. You need to fix this team so that he has a legitimate opportunity to win a Super Bowl as an Arizona Cardinal. Any efforts, other than that, are wasted efforts in my humble opinion. Right now, you are still sitting on some 14 million in salary money. At the same time, the team is extremely thin at the Nose Tackle position, (a critical position if you intend to be able to stuff the run), and maybe more importantly, be able to occupy a double team in the middle of the defense that frees our defensive ends, Darnell Dockett, and Calais Campbell, to penetrate into opponents backfields. In addition, we still lack a proven #2 wide receiver that can stretch the field, and take pressure off Fitzgerald occasionally that frees him up to be a go-to receiver. Also, for two solid years now, we have failed to secure, (even one), proven outside rush linebacker.

Do you not understand why Fitzgerald is not jumping all over your money offer? He doesn't care about that NEARLY so much as he cares about winning. I believe that, because you have chosen to not spend on one of several fine #2 WR's that were available this off-season, AND because you feel that we can get by on the cheap if we wait to see if any team cuts one, you feel that you are being wise. On the contrary, you are showing him that you care more about going on the cheap than you care about actually winning. That has been a Cardinal's trait since I have been following Cardinals football, and that goes back to the early St. Louis days. What makes you think that ANY WR that a team cuts, will be effective as a #2.

In addition, the failure to address either the Nose Tackle or the Rush OLB positions, just smacks of your failure to recognize the true needs of this franchise, (if you intend to become a Super Bowl contender). Mr Graves, (and MR's Bidwill), please note, that while you seem content to have Larry Fitzgerald as the face of your franchise, so that you can put fannies in the seats, you are about to fail in that endeavor too. What's worse, you will again have lost your franchise player, (because you once again failed to act on HIS wishes). Jake Plummer is gone. Anquan Boldin is gone. Kurt Warner is gone. All were faces of your franchise. If you do not address this situation, Larry Fitzgerald will also be gone.

It is your local fans, who built your stadium. It is your local fans who filled the seats of every game played there so far. It is your local fans who have purchased the merchandise that you so freely market throughout the world. After the debacle of last season, you stand the distinct possibility of losing, not only your franchise player, but the support of your local fans. They, have made you wealthy even beyond what your family could have imagined. They certainly will not remain faithful to you if you do not lock up Larry Fitzgerald. Your one enduring trait has been to do nearly everything necessary to become a winner, then to stop just short of going that extra mile to ensure that you can compete. Please reconsider your approach to what you actually need to do in order to keep Larry Fitzgerald as a Cardinal. Going on the 'cheap' is simply not an option this time.

 

[Garthshort]

Catfish, your concerns may be well founded. We'll know if there is no contract extension by September 11th. However, I doubt if the NT position enters into the decision of whether to stay in Arizona. As a WR he is probably more concerned with the QB and whether there is another WR on the roster good enough to take pressure off of him. JMO.

 

[Goldfield]

His name is Todd Heap.

 

[slanidrac16]

As I posted in one of your other threads this front office fails miserably at "thinking ahead".

This Fitz thing should have been done 2 maybe 3 years ago. The minute it became apparent that Fitz had a CHANCE to reach his incentive clauses, the should have pulled him in the office and got it done then.

Instead , we take a wait and see attutude. Maybe he'll have a down year and we can save some money. We always seem to wait until a player is in the final year of his contract instead of going out on the proverbial limb.

And here's what I don't get. Why? The way the nfl is set up a team can get out of any bad contract as the end of the contract nears. Other teams do it. Fitz , if done a couple of years ago could have been signed to a whopping deal. Today, the whopping deal would be relatively cheap compared to today's prices.

Players that are apparent "core" players should be locked up before they reach the final year off their deal.
Two examples.
1. Beanie Wells. In reality he has not lived up to the hopes and expectations we had hoped for yet. So we live with his deal. We won't and shouldn't consider resigning him to any type of extention. If he happens to run for 1800 yards and 15 td's this year then you have a decision to make because up to this point he hasn't earned the "core" player status.

2. Patrick Peterson. Let's assume he has 9 ints., 2 returns for td's and is named rooie of the year. In year 2 he follows it up with the same type of year or better. Wouldn't it be prudent to resign him to an extension right then and there? We won't.

A perfect example is Anquan Boldin. We let too many players walk away because they become prohibitive to resign for cap reasons. The player reaches free agency when he is at his premier market value time.

Players see whats going on and if you make a player play at a bargain price JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN, only breed disgruntled players.

Two examples right now.
WR D. Jackson and RB Chris Johnson. Is it really prudent to make these 2 guys play for 900k because that what their contract calls for?
These guys are Super Stars.You should want them happy and on your team for the next 5 years. They have proven the club and scouting staff right! You drafted a great player!

So now we will be forced to throw gobs of money to Fitz. Much of that money could have come from the "uncapped" year money and this situation would be in our rear view mirror. We keep saying "We're 14m under the cap".

Not really. Most of that is going to go to Fitz. Deservedly so, but as usual a year or two late.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Larry is a professional and pays a lot of attention to his craft. He spends long hours perfecting it to his best ability. He did comment towards the fact that what is most important is getting this young team moving in the right direction early by working hard and his faith and focus remarks are not just a saying to him. He will get his contract done in the near future when he feels he can give more time to the contract discussions. If he is not worried about signing again with the Cards and that is his intention, it bodes just as much as not wanting to sign that it has not happened yet. And it is about money to him as well as with most players, remember how long it took the last time when he was securing that contract and the money involved. Larry just does not talk about the money aspect as often, that is not to say it is not on his mind.Fitz does not make a big deal out of post touchdown celebrations and he does not personally throw a public eye towards his contract either by talking about it outloud for attention as other players do. I feel he will be a Cardinal for life and this contract will get done but without the public fanfare most players expose us to during the process of it happening.

 

[Shane]

As I posted in one of your other threads this front office fails miserably at "thinking ahead".

This Fitz thing should have been done 2 maybe 3 years ago. The minute it became apparent that Fitz had a CHANCE to reach his incentive clauses, the should have pulled him in the office and got it done then.

Instead , we take a wait and see attutude. Maybe he'll have a down year and we can save some money. We always seem to wait until a player is in the final year of his contract instead of going out on the proverbial limb.

And here's what I don't get. Why? The way the nfl is set up a team can get out of any bad contract as the end of the contract nears. Other teams do it. Fitz , if done a couple of years ago could have been signed to a whopping deal. Today, the whopping deal would be relatively cheap compared to today's prices.

Players that are apparent "core" players should be locked up before they reach the final year off their deal.
Two examples.
1. Beanie Wells. In reality he has not lived up to the hopes and expectations we had hoped for yet. So we live with his deal. We won't and shouldn't consider resigning him to any type of extention. If he happens to run for 1800 yards and 15 td's this year then you have a decision to make because up to this point he hasn't earned the "core" player status.

2. Patrick Peterson. Let's assume he has 9 ints., 2 returns for td's and is named rooie of the year. In year 2 he follows it up with the same type of year or better. Wouldn't it be prudent to resign him to an extension right then and there? We won't.

A perfect example is Anquan Boldin. We let too many players walk away because they become prohibitive to resign for cap reasons. The player reaches free agency when he is at his premier market value time.

Players see whats going on and if you make a player play at a bargain price JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN, only breed disgruntled players.

Two examples right now.
WR D. Jackson and RB Chris Johnson. Is it really prudent to make these 2 guys play for 900k because that what their contract calls for?
These guys are Super Stars.You should want them happy and on your team for the next 5 years. They have proven the club and scouting staff right! You drafted a great player!

So now we will be forced to throw gobs of money to Fitz. Much of that money could have come from the "uncapped" year money and this situation would be in our rear view mirror. We keep saying "We're 14m under the cap".

Not really. Most of that is going to go to Fitz. Deservedly so, but as usual a year or two late.

Fitz contract was only 4 years. To say he should have been resigned 3 years ago is completely silly.

 

[Buckybird]

I completely agree Catfish. I've been worried about Fitz leaving for 2 years now & been LOL'ed by many here on the board. And yet here we still stand...

D-day is fast approaching & nothing has been done yet but "We're talking". I heard the same posturing with many other players in years past & if Larry Fitzgerald gets away the Bidwills should just sell the franchise & open ice cream parlors in every state in America except for AZ. Maybe all the very good players in the past aren't as stupid as we think they are wanting to leave the Cardinals for greener pastures, but #11's exit would be the biggest black-eye the team has EVER seen on the field & in the publics eyes!!!

 

[slanidrac16]

Fitz contract was only 4 years. To say he should have been resigned 3 years ago is completely silly.

My point is it was quite obvious he was going to be a superstareven as you pointed out, after 2 years. He was going to reach the incredible incentives that was in his contract. I'll stand corrected as far as the length of his contract but it wouldn't have been unreasonable to extend him after the second year.

Add that to the fact that we were 30M under the cap last year and it strengthens my point that the Cardinal FO is reactive instead of proactive. That money could have been used as a catalyst to a new contract even before last year was over.
I'm sure there will be some to argue no CBA , blahblah, but that could have been worked out too.

There is always the chance I am dead wrong. Maybe they did apporoach Fitz and he wanted to wait. However, with our history, I doubt it.

Again, if you know the player is good/excellent give him the money when he has 2 years left on his contract. What you spend in today's $ is going to be cheaper than what you spend in 2 years especially if that said player continues to excel.

 

[Mulli]

So wouldn't a player like Fitz be smart enough to wait to sign that extension so he could get more money instead of signing the extension sooner rather than later?

 

[ajcardfan]

So wouldn't a player like Fitz be smart enough to wait to sign that extension so he could get more money instead of signing the extension sooner rather than later?

Eugene Parker is Fitz's agent and he is going to use all the leverage he has. We've all seen Parker work the Cards over before on a deal (like Larry's last one) and I DO expect Fitz's next contract to be jawdropping no matter who he signs with.

 

[seesred]

I for one beieve that Larry will sign a contract with the team before the season starts. He has said over and over again he wants to be a Cardinal for the rest of his career. Yes he wants to win the whole enchilada. The front office has done a solid job of bringing in 51 new players befrore camp. Many will stick especialy the FA and Draft picks. That's like 15 guys.

I have no worries whats so ever about Larry staying. In fact with all the improvments, Larry should feel great about our chances to get to the playoffs now! Once in, you just never know (see Cards in super bowl). We have improved our offense with strong pick ups on the o-line,RB, QB big time,TE and IMO WR.

On Defense our pick ups through drfats and FA including our number 1 pick should improve what we do. The most important pick was the new D coach. We can play with anyone in our diveision and win now. Larry knows we are much better and IMO sign that contract and remain a Cardinal for life, Hall of fame numbers and his number hung on the ring of honor.

GBR
40

 

[Catfish]

So wouldn't a player like Fitz be smart enough to wait to sign that extension so he could get more money instead of signing the extension sooner rather than later?

Mulli----I seriously doubt that Fitz is worried about the money. He knows that the Cardinals paid what he asked for last time, and I believe he knows that they will gladly pay this time too. That is why I said that with Fitz, it really is not about the money. He might even realize that he has already accumulated more money than he could ever spend.

My point is that Fitz is ALL ABOUT winning a ring. That is not something that can be bought. He knows that will only come by being part of a championship caliber team. Right now, that does not describe the Arizona Cardinals, and he knows that. He also knows that there is a small window that is open for him to still have the skills to make a difference on a championship team. That window is beginning to close for him, and he desperately wants to have his big opportunity. If the Cardinals will not fix this team so that he has that opportunity, then he will go elsewhere.

Where that might be is pure speculation, but there are championship caliber teams out there, and Arizona is not one of them right now. One might do well to consider Green Bay. Larry already has a VERY GOOD friend who plays for them, and they ARE the current Super Bowl champs. In addition, they have made moves to make themselves stronger-----why else would they have released Darren College? They knew he was the weakest link on their O-line, and that he was past being able to get better. They replaced him with someone with more upside. That is how championships are won, and maintained, not going on the cheap by looking for someones castoffs as a bargain price.

Larry got a great salary settlement in his last contract negotiation. He knows that he will do OK this time too. What he REALLY wants though, is a championship to carry him into the Hall of Fame. I assure you that, unless the Cardinals organization fixes that situation here, Larry Fitzgerald WILL go elsewhere, and he will do so quickly.

 

[ajcardfan]

Mulli----I seriously doubt that Fitz is worried about the money. He knows that the Cardinals paid what he asked for last time, and I believe he knows that they will gladly pay this time too. That is why I said that with Fitz, it really is not about the money. He might even realize that he has already accumulated more money than he could ever spend.

Fitz has already indicated he's willing to re-sign. And, he also said he's not going to think about it at all and let his agent handle it at this time. Even if Fitz is not all about the money, his agent is going to be. He's not going to push Parker aside and sign the deal.

 

[Mitch]

Mulli----I seriously doubt that Fitz is worried about the money. He knows that the Cardinals paid what he asked for last time, and I believe he knows that they will gladly pay this time too. That is why I said that with Fitz, it really is not about the money. He might even realize that he has already accumulated more money than he could ever spend.

My point is that Fitz is ALL ABOUT winning a ring. That is not something that can be bought. He knows that will only come by being part of a championship caliber team. Right now, that does not describe the Arizona Cardinals, and he knows that. He also knows that there is a small window that is open for him to still have the skills to make a difference on a championship team. That window is beginning to close for him, and he desperately wants to have his big opportunity. If the Cardinals will not fix this team so that he has that opportunity, then he will go elsewhere.

Where that might be is pure speculation, but there are championship caliber teams out there, and Arizona is not one of them right now. One might do well to consider Green Bay. Larry already has a VERY GOOD friend who plays for them, and they ARE the current Super Bowl champs. In addition, they have made moves to make themselves stronger-----why else would they have released Darren College? They knew he was the weakest link on their O-line, and that he was past being able to get better. They replaced him with someone with more upside. That is how championships are won, and maintained, not going on the cheap by looking for someones castoffs as a bargain price.

Larry got a great salary settlement in his last contract negotiation. He knows that he will do OK this time too. What he REALLY wants though, is a championship to carry him into the Hall of Fame. I assure you that, unless the Cardinals organization fixes that situation here, Larry Fitzgerald WILL go elsewhere, and he will do so quickly.

This is the most accurate post I've read about Fitz. Beautifully put, Catfish!

Ever since the Super Bowl---Fitz got hungrier to win one and the organization went in the opposite direction.

This is why I believe Fitz won't remain. There are just far too many games where the Cardinals are not even competitive...and far too many missed opportunities to make the personnel championship caliber.

 

[Buckybird]

Fitz has already indicated he's willing to re-sign.

Saying you want to be an Arizona Cardinal and actually saying "he's willing 2 re-sign" are 2 differant things.

 

[ajcardfan]

Saying you want to be an Arizona Cardinal and actually saying "he's willing 2 re-sign" are 2 differant things.

Fitz is now the unquestioned leader of this team. He's the one he instigated the informal workouts during the lockout. He's the one who repeatedly called Kolb to go to this team and worked out with him here. That's not the actions of someone who doesn't "want to be Cardinal". He's very happy about Kolb and Heap landing here.

Now, it's just going to be business when it comes to his next contract. To approach it any other way is stupid. Parker and Fitz are not stupid.

 

[Shane]

Fitz is now the unquestioned leader of this team. He's the one he instigated the informal workouts during the lockout. He's the one who repeatedly called Kolb to go to this team and worked out with him here. That's not the actions of someone who doesn't "want to be Cardinal". He's very happy about Kolb and Heap landing here.

Now, it's just going to be business when it comes to his next contract. To approach it any other way is stupid. Parker and Fitz are not stupid.

This! Bucky and Mitch with their Fitz panic are just being silly IMO.

 

[Catfish]

This! Bucky and Mitch with their Fitz panic are just being silly IMO.

My guess is that it won't seem silly at all, when he leaves at the end of this season because we failed to fix the team so that he has a chance to get his ring. My guess is that the Cardinals are the ones who will look silly.

 

[Mitch]

This! Bucky and Mitch with their Fitz panic are just being silly IMO.

I't not panic, Shane. It's reality. If you had your pick of every team in the NFL and the highest WR contract to go with it, would you pick the Cardinals?

If the Cardinals had built on their Super Bowl experience---sure. Instead players wanted out and the FO had few answers except to save money.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I't not panic, Shane. It's reality. If you had your pick of every team in the NFL and the highest WR contract to go with it, would you pick the Cardinals?

If the Cardinals had built on their Super Bowl experience---sure. Instead players wanted out and the FO had few answers except to save money.

If that's the case then Larry will leave and we'll move on. But, if there's really nothing that can be done about it, why worry and why blame the FO when it inevitably happens? If Larry leaves simply because we ARE the Cardinals then we're pretty much doomed to mediocrity (or worse) forever. Personally, I don't think Larry looks down on this organization as much as a few of you apparently do but we shall see.

Steve

 

[Buckybird]

This! Bucky and Mitch with their Fitz panic are just being silly IMO.

We will see Shane & BELIEVE ME, I hope you're right. But if he leaves, as I said the Bidwills might as well sell the team because it will take a monumental task to get the fans & the players back mentally. Somebody in the FO dropped the ball by not allowing him to be franchised or Fitz wanted to put the pressure on them by not agreeing to it in his last deal because of players leaving w/o deals in the past or a lack of trying to build a winner the right way. The Cards FO almost ALWAYS wait & takes the reactive approach in almost everything they do & hopefully they don't lose it's best player in nearly 30 yrs because of it.

My guess is that it won't seem silly at all, when he leaves at the end of this season because we failed to fix the team so that he has a chance to get his ring. My guess is that the Cardinals are the ones who will look silly.

We're the stupid ones Fish

 

[Mitch]

If that's the case then Larry will leave and we'll move on. But, if there's really nothing that can be done about it, why worry and why blame the FO when it inevitably happens? If Larry leaves simply because we ARE the Cardinals then we're pretty much doomed to mediocrity (or worse) forever. Personally, I don't think Larry looks down on this organization as much as a few of you apparently do but we shall see.

Steve

Steve---you've been making very good points---and I have been finding your posts very accurate.

Here's the thing---if the Cardinals keep on giving up close to 30 points a game---and the embarrassing defeats continue---do you really think Fitz will ignore that, when he has positioned himself to go to any team he wishes?

Fitz won't make this decision out of blind loyalty.

But a player only has so many good years---and to feel both the physical and emotional pain of losing in football is like losing a boxing match---it's a double loss that tends to stay with the boxer the way scars do.

The only thing that makes the pain of this game tolerable is winning. It's the only tonic---the only panacea.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve---you've been making very good points---and I have been finding your posts very accurate.

Here's the thing---if the Cardinals keep on giving up close to 30 points a game---and the embarrassing defeats continue---do you really think Fitz will ignore that, when he has positioned himself to go to any team he wishes?

Fitz won't make this decision out of blind loyalty.

But a player only has so many good years---and to feel both the physical and emotional pain of losing in football is like losing a boxing match---it's a double loss that tends to stay with the boxer the way scars do.

The only thing that makes the pain of this game tolerable is winning. It's the only tonic---the only panacea.

You're right, he won't stay out of blind loyalty. I think there's a fair chance that he'll acknowledge the organizational efforts that led to Kolb and sign his extension before the season starts. If he doesn't sign by then, I think we still have a chance to keep him but IMO it will only happen if he believes in the potential of the offense. I think he wants to win, including a Super Bowl, but I think he also wants to assure his legacy as one of the all time greats. Having a nice defense would help but having a potent offense will be the overriding factor.

Steve

 

[Shane]

I't not panic, Shane. It's reality. If you had your pick of every team in the NFL and the highest WR contract to go with it, would you pick the Cardinals?

If the Cardinals had built on their Super Bowl experience---sure. Instead players wanted out and the FO had few answers except to save money.

Great now you calling something that hasn't even happened "reality" quite frankly you are being delusional when you make comments like that.

 

[Mitch]

Great now you calling something that hasn't even happened "reality" quite frankly you are being delusional when you make comments like that.

Thanks for being the voice of pure sanity. I need to go now. I can't be late for group therapy. They will take my telephone rights away.