With the 4th pick of the 2018 NBA Draft, the Phoenix Suns select...

[Mainstreet]

Bagley did pretty well putting a body on Bamba and getting position for rebounds. Many athletic players these days do not understand boxing out.

He should be a very good player indeed.

 

[pokerface]

Bagley is awesome. He can make a lot of players look bad. An argument can be made he is the best player in the draft.

Ayton or Bagley would put us on the fast track to the playoffs... within two seasons. The players below them would be nice additions no doubt but it would be great to score immediate impact players. The sun's and it's fans have waited long enough.

 

[Finito]

I have to believe he was talking about Shaq. But by 2005, Shaq wasn’t Shaq anymore and Amare was a freaking unstoppable offensive force. He could shoot the 15-20 footer, take guys off the dribble and even had a great back to the basket spin move that was lightning fast.

To be honest... just as far as offense was concerned, he was better than Duncan. Duncan towered over him defensively but Amare was the best big offensive player in the game the year before his micro... and it was only his THIRD year.

Sigh.

No way on gods green earth was Amare was better than Duncan. You have to remember the teams and systems they played in. Duncan played in the ultimate half court team game while the Suns a were run and gun volume team.

Amare was more athletic and he got spoon fed by Nash eating up easy basket after easy basket.

 

[Hoop Head]

Amare was scoring 20 ppg without Nash though. When Nash arrived his shooting percentage went up almost 10% though, he went from shooting 47% to 56% with Nash feeding him. Amare didn't really have anyone feeding him in his 2nd year because the Suns traded away Marbury and went into tank mode after that with Barbosa and Joe Johnson splitting time at PG. Amare was really good before Nash came along, he became great with Nash though. His scoring went up 6 ppg.

I think Amare and Duncan were comparable at that time offensively but Duncan's defensive made him a much better player. Offensively no one could stop Amare, he was too quick, while Duncan was just fundamentally sound. He wasn't an exciting player but he was very efficient. Duncan started declining around the time that Amare had his microfracture surgery so we never got to see peak level Amare like we did with Duncan. Duncan was in his 8th year to Amare's 3rd when they met in the playoffs in 2005. After watching them go at in the playoffs though I think it was clear to everyone that Amare was on his way to becoming the best PF in the game but then he had the knee problems and microfracture, which is a shame. We were robbed of seeing just how good he could be after seeing him light up Pau in the 1st round and Dirk in the 2nd round and seeing Duncan struggle to contain him while Amare averaged 37ppg in just that San Antonio series. I don't think a big ever dominated a Popovich coached team like that. Shaq always did well but not that well because they'd go into Hack-A-Shaq to slow things down. Amare was an 80% FT shooter though.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think you guys are forgetting just how good Duncan was in his prime. He had so many different weapons on offense that he was impossible to guard. He could post up, face-up, roll, pop, shoot. You name it, he could do it. Amare was probably better in transition, and he was probably a bit better driving to the hoop, be it from an isolation face-up, fast break, or pick and roll, but Duncan had a hook shot, turnaround fade-away jumper, he could use the glass like nobody else. Duncan was also an amazing passer. I won't even mention defense, since we are talking offense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think you guys are forgetting just how good Duncan was in his prime. He had so many different weapons on offense that he was impossible to guard. He could post up, face-up, roll, pop, shoot. You name it, he could do it. Amare was probably better in transition, and he was probably a bit better driving to the hoop, be it from an isolation face-up, fast break, or pick and roll, but Duncan had a hook shot, turnaround fade-away jumper, he could use the glass like nobody else. Duncan was also an amazing passer. I won't even mention defense, since we are talking offense.

yeah... it was Duncan, then Amare. But Amare was going to be freaking amazing... offensively anyway. His combo of handles/speed/athleticism/power at the position was second to none at the time. He could have been a 30 ppg scorer easily if not for Micro, but he wasn't the passer Duncan was and D isn't even worth mentioning.

 

[GatorAZ]

Duncan was averaging 23-25 ppg through his prime while being an elite rebounder and defensive anchor. Had he only spent his energy offensively he could’ve won a scoring a title if he wanted to. He wasn’t wired like that.

 

[SirStefan32]

yeah... it was Duncan, then Amare. But Amare was going to be freaking amazing... offensively anyway. His combo of handles/speed/athleticism/power at the position was second to none at the time. He could have been a 30 ppg scorer easily if not for Micro, but he wasn't the passer Duncan was and D isn't even worth mentioning.

No doubt. He had the strength, athleticism, quickness, explosiveness, great balance... he had it all. I think a lot of people forget just how amazing Amare was before his knee issues.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I flat out don't see it in Trae Young. The second half of the season was much different than the first half. I see more Jimmer than Steph

I don't see Jimmer at all. If he stays healthy and still busts he'll bust at the Lou Williams level not the Jimmer level IMO. He clearly wore down as the season went along but that's to be expected from a slight-of-build freshman that's carrying almost the full load for a major college team all while averaging more than 35 minutes per game.

 

[GatorAZ]

The way Amare finished off the 05’ playoffs it’s really scary to think what he would’ve done the next year had not had the knee problems.

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[Cheesebeef]

That Amare was in his THIRD YEAR.

He could have been a 33-35 ppg scorer. He was becoming an unstoppable offensive force.

Watching that game also reminds me we went 0-3 AT HOME in that series. Ugh.

 

[hcsilla]

Maybe more like Bismack Biyombo.

Bamba is already a much better offensive player than Biyombo after 6 years in the NBA.

 

[hcsilla]

I think you guys are forgetting just how good Duncan was in his prime. He had so many different weapons on offense that he was impossible to guard. He could post up, face-up, roll, pop, shoot. You name it, he could do it. Amare was probably better in transition, and he was probably a bit better driving to the hoop, be it from an isolation face-up, fast break, or pick and roll, but Duncan had a hook shot, turnaround fade-away jumper, he could use the glass like nobody else. Duncan was also an amazing passer. I won't even mention defense, since we are talking offense.

Yes, I honestly think that the best player of the post MJ-era was Duncan.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The way Amare finished off the 05’ playoffs it’s really scary to think what he would’ve done the next year had not had the knee problems.

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Its interesting to see how much different the game is played now. Defenses are much more aggressive on the perimeter, even with bigger players. Offenses go outside in now, instead of inside out like they did then. The three was an occasional weapon in those days. Now its the bread and butter.

 

[Phrazbit]

Bamba is already a much better offensive player than Biyombo after 6 years in the NBA.

Debatable. Most of Bamba's points game from him being spoonfed super easy baskets against guys who he physically over matched. I've seen nothing from Bamba that says he will be an offensive threat early in his NBA career. Maybe he will develop into one, but college Bamba was trash on offense.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Debatable. Most of Bamba's points game from him being spoonfed super easy baskets against guys who he physically over matched. I've seen nothing from Bamba that says he will be an offensive threat early in his NBA career. Maybe he will develop into one, but college Bamba was trash on offense.

If he can dominate down low defensively and if he can put the ball in the hoop when he's near the basket, I'd be fine with him. As long as he's aware of his offensive deficiencies. If he needs frequent touches on offense to keep him happy and focused (Dwight Howard disease), then pass.

 

[GatorAZ]

It took Deandre Jordan and Rudy Gobert 3-4 years to reach their elite defensive anchor status. Do the Suns have that much time to wait?

 

[AzStevenCal]

It took Deandre Jordan and Rudy Gobert 3-4 years to reach their elite defensive anchor status. Do the Suns have that much time to wait?

Gobert was already pretty dominant by his second season, I really don't remember Deandre's early years. But as for time, is there a dominant defensive player available that isn't somewhat of a project?

 

[GatorAZ]

Gobert was already pretty dominant by his second season, I really don't remember Deandre's early years. But as for time, is there a dominant defensive player available that isn't somewhat of a project?

Gobert showed the tools right away but I wouldn’t call him dominant. He wasn’t a full-time starter until he was 23. Bamba is 19.

 

[hcsilla]

Debatable.

I don't think it is.

Bamba has already shown the shooting touch and post moves that we have never ever seen from Biyombo despite his +6 year long NBA-career.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think it is.

Bamba has already shown the shooting touch and post moves that we have never ever seen from Biyombo despite his +6 year long NBA-career.

What your saying and what happened for him on offense at Texas... just don't match up. He couldn't shoot away from the rim and him posting guys up (despite the massive size advantage he had) was a very very rare site. I know, there are some isolated plays where he did some things, but you can find that kind of stuff for an offensive turd like Biyombo too.

Maybe in time that will change for him, but I would have liked to see a lot more to consider taking a guy with whatever pick we get from this awful season.

Personally, I think Biyombo's ceiling is rim protector and average offensive player.

 

[DWKB]

What your saying and what happened for him on offense at Texas... just don't match up.

I think it's incredibly hard to judge a big man who plays for Shaka Smart. He's a horrible coach in total, but I think he's especially bad with big men.

 

[leclerc]

It took Deandre Jordan and Rudy Gobert 3-4 years to reach their elite defensive anchor status. Do the Suns have that much time to wait?

Or the coaching to develop talent?

 

[hcsilla]

What your saying and what happened for him on offense at Texas... just don't match up. He couldn't shoot away from the rim and him posting guys up (despite the massive size advantage he had) was a very very rare site. I know, there are some isolated plays where he did some things, but you can find that kind of stuff for an offensive turd like Biyombo too.

Maybe in time that will change for him, but I would have liked to see a lot more to consider taking a guy with whatever pick we get from this awful season.

Personally, I think Biyombo's ceiling is rim protector and average offensive player.

I disagree with both of the final evaluation and the details.

His ceiling is a DPOY-candidate and a good offensive player, IMO.

His movement is fluid, has a nice jumper, can put the ball on the floor and showed some post-up moves.

He couldn't shoot away from the rim? Then how did he hit 14 3P-s?

I think you don't really get what I'm saying. I'm not saying he is a good post-up player already. I'm saying he has shown some post-up moves that you could never really see from non-existing offensive players like Biyombo.

There are countless bigman prospects starting from Bosh, Noah, Favors and Drummond that have shown no more offensive talent than Bamba has in college, yet turned out to be at least average offensive players.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There are countless bigman prospects starting from Bosh, Noah, Favors and Drummond that have shown no more offensive talent than Bamba has in college, yet turned out to be at least average offensive players.

I'm surprised to see Bosh on your list, as I recall he was a pretty effective scorer in his college career (1 season). Chris led the Paul Hewitt coached team in scoring, averaging almost 16 points per game. And Hewitt's teams were typically low scoring.