With the 8th pick in the NFL Draft......

[juza76]

Please explain. Historically our defense has been at its best with dynamic fast ilbs (dansby and dwash). And seeing what a keuchly, or urlacher can do . . . well . . .

Definitely we need some speed
We have just one player pretty dinamyc who play sometimes near the line of scrimmage and is a safety, Budda baker

 

[slanidrac16]

Considering Murray looked like a pile of garbage out there and then "adequate" at best most of the season, I'm not sure any lights have been turned on.

I'm going to go with the much more realistic option that he's a backup-tier player before I go in the direction of he's a set-em-and-forget-em RT for us. Last year's OL was plain and simple, still bad. Whenever we talk about it, people seem to only want to bring up that Murray was responsible for a fair amount of sacks, but ignore how many he bailed the line out of.

So if we decide not to add a RT that means the staff likes what they have. I’m going to believe in them rather than agree with you.

 

[Solar7]

So if we decide not to add a RT that means the staff likes what they have. I’m going to believe in them rather than agree with you.

It means that, or it means the team has put themselves in a poor position where they can't afford to upgrade, or have made the repeated poor decision of avoiding upgrades at the line for flashy, sexy picks.

We've talked about this in other threads, but I think a lot of times players are just "what we can get" and not what we "like."

All that said, Justin Murray isn't even on the roster at the moment, so who knows?

 

[slanidrac16]

It means that, or it means the team has put themselves in a poor position where they can't afford to upgrade, or have made the repeated poor decision of avoiding upgrades at the line for flashy, sexy picks.

We've talked about this in other threads, but I think a lot of times players are just "what we can get" and not what we "like."

All that said, Justin Murray isn't even on the roster at the moment, so who knows?

However, we are in a position to add or upgrade. If we decide not to I would take that as they are happy with Murray and may upgrade Miles or Toth.

 

[Solar7]

However, we are in a position to add or upgrade. If we decide not to I would take that as they are happy with Murray and may upgrade Miles or Toth.

You're the eternal optimist, I don't know what else to tell you. Having the opportunity to upgrade but not doing so because you fell in love with CeeDee Lamb doesn't make Justin Murray a player anyone should be "happy" to count on, but they're doing so because otherwise they couldn't have Lamb or (insert player here). There aren't a lot of options in FA to fix the issue.

 

[Garthshort]

Most fans/media seem to like our OL coach. So, I'm guessing that he'll have a LOT of input on whether we draft an OT early in the Draft, or just stick with Murray.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Considering Murray looked like a pile of garbage out there and then "adequate" at best most of the season, I'm not sure any lights have been turned on.

I'm going to go with the much more realistic option that he's a backup-tier player before I go in the direction of he's a set-em-and-forget-em RT for us. Last year's OL was plain and simple, still bad. Whenever we talk about it, people seem to only want to bring up that Murray was responsible for a fair amount of sacks, but ignore how many he bailed the line out of.

He is an adequate player.

I WANT the Cardinals to take Wirfs, so I do want an upgrade, but that is because I believe Wirfs can be an All Pro.

You yourself keep bemoaning how many holes there are on the roster. There are way bigger holes and way worse positions on the roster that need attention.

 

[slanidrac16]

You're the eternal optimist, I don't know what else to tell you. Having the opportunity to upgrade but not doing so because you fell in love with CeeDee Lamb doesn't make Justin Murray a player anyone should be "happy" to count on, but they're doing so because otherwise they couldn't have Lamb or (insert player here). There aren't a lot of options in FA to fix the issue.

You're the eternal optimist, I don't know what else to tell you. Having the opportunity to upgrade but not doing so because you fell in love with CeeDee Lamb doesn't make Justin Murray a player anyone should be "happy" to count on, but they're doing so because otherwise they couldn't have Lamb or (insert player here). There aren't a lot of options in FA to fix the issue.

I just look at things with understanding we don’t know what this staff thinks of Murray and/or the guys in this draft. If we could look ahead and know Wirfs was the next Larry Allen of course we should draft him. If we knew Lamb was the next Michael Thomas of course we should draft him.

if Wirfs turns out to be our next Cooper and Lamb goes on to be the next Hopkins who would look stupid then?

You are saying that if we don’t draft a RT we are once again ignoring the line. That is your opinion based on nothing but your opinion. You don’t know what this staff knows or believes.

In reality isn’t that what it’s all about? Whether it’s the GM, Scouting Dept. , head coach , line coach , pundits AND fans we are all basing our opinions on what we think and believe.

So, if the Cardinals organization are content with Murray at RT why the heck do you think you have so much more insight and are so much smarter than this staff? Maybe they not only believe in what they see in Murray but they believe he will even get better.

Or maybe there’s a F/A they have their eye on to improve the depth. Maybe they have their eye on a guy they can get in the second or third round that is just a hair below what Wirfs is PROJECTED to be.

Of course no third round offensive lineman has ever gone on to be an all pro, right?

If everybody’s opinion and evaluation was perfect every player drafted in the first three round would become starters. But everyone’s opinion is not always perfect. In fact they are wrong more often then right.

So please, don’t take the stand that you are so much smarter than the people that do this for a living. You are probably much smarter than I am on this stuff...but then again that’s only an opinion.

 

[GuernseyCard]

You're the eternal optimist, I don't know what else to tell you. Having the opportunity to upgrade but not doing so because you fell in love with CeeDee Lamb doesn't make Justin Murray a player anyone should be "happy" to count on, but they're doing so because otherwise they couldn't have Lamb or (insert player here). There aren't a lot of options in FA to fix the issue.

Murray + Gilbert on a "prove it' contract.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

Considering Murray looked like a pile of garbage out there and then "adequate" at best most of the season, I'm not sure any lights have been turned on.

I'm going to go with the much more realistic option that he's a backup-tier player before I go in the direction of he's a set-em-and-forget-em RT for us. Last year's OL was plain and simple, still bad. Whenever we talk about it, people seem to only want to bring up that Murray was responsible for a fair amount of sacks, but ignore how many he bailed the line out of.

Last years OL was not bad. It was lower middle tier (22nd in the league) according to PFF and thats factoring in our abysmal first month of way too many 10 personnel sets that Kliff was wise to correct. So tough to run the ball with no tight ends.

This Oline is above average.

 

[Solar7]

You are saying that if we don’t draft a RT we are once again ignoring the line. That is your opinion based on nothing but your opinion. You don’t know what this staff knows or believes.

What I'm saying is that if the Cardinals organization brings back the exact same line as 2019, which has just been pointed out by Zeem as the 22nd overall in the league, we're ignoring the line. That is a subpar offensive line, and in most metrics outside of the running game, we were bad. Maybe the Cards make a move in free agency, but you're operating under the assumption that Justin Murray is going to start, so obviously that would mean we didn't do anything.

So, if the Cardinals organization are content with Murray at RT why the heck do you think you have so much more insight and are so much smarter than this staff? Maybe they not only believe in what they see in Murray but they believe he will even get better.

If they are content with him, I think they're buffoons. I already think Keim has become a bad GM, and I don't have a high opinion of Kingsbury as a head coach, so it's not a stretch of me to say it. If they're truly "happy" with him, as gets repeated, I don't know what they're watching on gameday. If they're accepting they can't do better given limited assets, I think that's shortsighted and a poor decision when you have a young QB to protect, but "begrudgingly accepting" is a lot different than "happy."

So please, don’t take the stand that you are so much smarter than the people that do this for a living. You are probably much smarter than I am on this stuff...but then again that’s only an opinion.

I'm not stating that I'm smarter than the people who do this for a living, because five other teams have cut this player from their roster. That's a lot of people who "do this for a living" who have deemed the guy to not be a good player.

 

[SoonerLou]

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[Solar7]

Last years OL was not bad. It was lower middle tier (22nd in the league) according to PFF and thats factoring in our abysmal first month of way too many 10 personnel sets that Kliff was wise to correct. So tough to run the ball with no tight ends.

This Oline is above average.

No, they're not.

I finally have the numbers in front of me from Pro Football Reference, and Kyler Murray was the 5th most hurried QB in 2019, despite being the 16th blitzed against. That means the OL was giving up a ton of pressure even though other teams didn't feel the need to bring more guys.

With all of that? Kyler only took 16 hits outside of sacks, which is good for 33rd. He took less hits in a full season than 32 other QBs. Insane. He was insanely evasive, and saved this offensive line from looking like the garbage they were, by running for his life.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

No, they're not.

I finally have the numbers in front of me from Pro Football Reference, and Kyler Murray was the 5th most hurried QB in 2019, despite being the 16th blitzed against. That means the OL was giving up a ton of pressure even though other teams didn't feel the need to bring more guys.

With all of that? Kyler only took 16 hits outside of sacks, which is good for 33rd. He took less hits in a full season than 32 other QBs. Insane. He was insanely evasive, and saved this offensive line from looking like the garbage they were, by running for his life.

Too bad that’s not how PFF works.
This oline was above average 2nd half of season.

Your takes aren’t great - go back to thinking Kugler doesn’t have input on his Oline contracts that was hilarious

 

[Solar7]

Too bad that’s not how PFF works.
This oline was above average 2nd half of season.

Your takes aren’t great - go back to thinking Kugler doesn’t have input on his Oline contracts that was hilarious

Not PFF. The numbers I brought up are the whole season, and are based on hard stats.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

Not PFF. The numbers I brought up are the whole season, and are based on hard stats.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm

Ah yes, hard stats in a vacuum with no context, what wonderful metrics.

Look at you defending Kyler now! “He’s so elusive, he saved this garbage oline”

took you long enough to realize kylers a stud. Maybe your take on the Oline is similar? I’m not saying they’re studs but they aren’t hot garbage and Id argue slightly above average.

But yeah, keep being combative for the sake of being combative and continue to be 6 months behind reality. Somebody has to be the village contrarian...

 

[Chainthroer]

JCSunsfan said:
"How can they pass on Simmons if he is there? I take Simmons without a second thought if he is on the board at 8.

I'm with you a 100%. A whole new exceptional defense with that pick!

 

[Solar7]

Ah yes, hard stats in a vacuum with no context, what wonderful metrics.

Look at you defending Kyler now! “He’s so elusive, he saved this garbage oline”

took you long enough to realize kylers a stud. Maybe your take on the Oline is similar? I’m not saying they’re studs but they aren’t hot garbage and Id argue slightly above average.

But yeah, keep being combative for the sake of being combative and continue to be 6 months behind reality. Somebody has to be the village contrarian...

I have the context of watching the games, and watching them suck and whiff on blocks while our QB had to run away all the time. The stats back up what I saw on the field.

Credit where credit is due for Kyler. That's still a long way to calling him a stud, but Rosen or anyone slower would have gotten obliterated.

Is your take that this offensive line is "good" because they were ranked 22nd or something? Or are you just unwilling to accept that this team has serious problems?

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

I have the context of watching the games, and watching them suck and whiff on blocks while our QB had to run away all the time. The stats back up what I saw on the field.

Credit where credit is due for Kyler. That's still a long way to calling him a stud, but Rosen or anyone slower would have gotten obliterated.

Is your take that this offensive line is "good" because they were ranked 22nd or something? Or are you just unwilling to accept that this team has serious problems?

Woah you’re the only guy here who watches games? I attend every home game and a few on the road every year.

I think this Oline is good because the 2nd half of the season they looked way better than 22nd and stats back that up. Teams progress throughout the year and there is QUANTITATIVE EVIDENCE to believe this Oline was top half the league 2nd half the year.

but I already said that and you chose to ignore it so whatever Mr Contrarian.

 

[Solar7]

Woah you’re the only guy here who watches games? I attend every home game and a few on the road every year.

I think this Oline is good because the 2nd half of the season they looked way better than 22nd and stats back that up. Teams progress throughout the year and there is a QUANTITATIVE EVIDENCE to believe this Oline was top half the league 2nd half the year.

but I already said that and you chose to ignore it so whatever Mr Contrarian.

Alright man, whatever, this offensive line is great, had nothing to do with Kingsbury maxing out protection for Kyler with TEs, let's fix nothing on the OL, and we surely shouldn't focus on guys who could even sniff a Pro Bowl to protect our young QB.

Justin Murray was cut by 5 teams before us because other teams are just dumb and don't understand football.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

Alright man, whatever, this offensive line is great, had nothing to do with Kingsbury maxing out protection for Kyler with TEs, let's fix nothing on the OL, and we surely shouldn't focus on guys who could even sniff a Pro Bowl to protect our young QB.

Justin Murray was cut by 5 teams before us because other teams are just dumb and don't understand football.

Re: Justin Murray

people change, develop, and improve. Take note of your Kyler takes. You changed, developed, and improved.

on your Oline takes: pls fix, thx. Let’s revisit after game 8 next season.

sincerely,
Your take Director

 

[GatorAZ]

Last years OL was not bad. It was lower middle tier (22nd in the league) according to PFF and thats factoring in our abysmal first month of way too many 10 personnel sets that Kliff was wise to correct. So tough to run the ball with no tight ends.

This Oline is above average.

- Hump played a full season for the first time

- Pugh player 12+ games for the first time in 5 years

- Shipley is mediocre at best

- Sweezy was a pleasant surprise

- Murray wasn’t terrible

We had some injury luck and good coaching but committing to that same smoke & mirrors unit going forward scares the CRAP out of me.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think the Cardinals have a league average offensive line if you look how they played for the last 12 games.

I want better than league average, because what the team was doing running the rock could be special.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

- Hump played a full season for the first time

- Pugh player 12+ games for the first time in 5 years

- Shipley is mediocre at best

- Sweezy was a pleasant surprise

- Murray wasn’t terrible

We had some injury luck and good coaching but committing to that same smoke & mirrors unit going forward scares the CRAP out of me.

Some call it luck, some call it scheme.
It’s undeniable that a KK offense asks less of an Olineman than a BA offense

 

[iLLmatiC]

I wouldn't be upset if we picked a pro bowl caliper player with the 8th.