Wolfley: The Frankenfive Defense

[dreamcastrocks]

What I meant was that I like Dansby having the option to both cover TEs and blitz the quarterback. There aren't many LBs in the NFL that are better in coverage than Karlos Dansby, and the Cards were one of the best teams in NFL history at covering tight ends last season.

I thought that you were saying that you wanted to make Dansby's move to the weakside permanent. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me because, as I said, he has the ability to take the best tight ends in the NFL out of games altogether. In special packages, I don't really care.

As for Pro Bowl votes for linebackers, I'm not surprise. Pro Bowl is all about gaudy stats--mostly sacks--and shutting down the Jeremy Shockeys and Jerramy Stevens of the NFL don't usually show up on SportsCenter. But Shawne Merriman does line up on the strongside for the Chagers, and is asked to cover man-to-man as much as blitz. I love D.J. Williams of the Broncos for his multi-dimensionality.

For what it's worth, I guess I'm saying that you can name a half-dozen guys who go to Honolulu because they get sacks, and I can name a handful more--LaVar Arrington, Julian Peterson, Takeo Spikes, etc. I guess I just don't want to limit what Dansby does by putting him on the other side. I'd rather have an LB that "struggles with blocking tight ends" than the ones that score 10 TDs a season.

Did I really just hear this? You wouldn't want an LB scoring 10 TD's in a season?

Maybe you mean that LB's that allow TE's to score 10 TDs a season??

 

[kerouac9]

Did I really just hear this? You wouldn't want an LB scoring 10 TD's in a season?

Maybe you mean that LB's that allow TE's to score 10 TDs a season??

That's what I meant. I'd rather have an LB that struggles against blocking tight ends than the tight ends that--you know--score points.

 

[Hardy Brown]

What I meant was that I like Dansby having the option to both cover TEs and blitz the quarterback. There aren't many LBs in the NFL that are better in coverage than Karlos Dansby, and the Cards were one of the best teams in NFL history at covering tight ends last season.

I understand, but Dansby is adept at rushing the passer (as you duly noted). The Will-backer is in better position to rush the passer because the TE will never be a factor in pass protection, "chipping" the OLB releasing into a pass-route or flat-out setting on him in protection. None of Dansby's 3-picks last year came from playing man-coverage. Playing Will allows him to be more of a force in coverage as well.

I thought that you were saying that you wanted to make Dansby's move to the weakside permanent. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me because, as I said, he has the ability to take the best tight ends in the NFL out of games altogether. In special packages, I don't really care.

This will probably happen before his next contract. DC's typically worry about the run before the pass. What good is it to have a Sam-backer that can cover TE's (in man-coverage) but struggle on running plays at the point-of-attack?

As for Pro Bowl votes for linebackers, I'm not surprise. Pro Bowl is all about gaudy stats--mostly sacks--and shutting down the Jeremy Shockeys and Jerramy Stevens of the NFL don't usually show up on SportsCenter. But Shawne Merriman does line up on the strongside for the Chagers, and is asked to cover man-to-man as much as blitz. I love D.J. Williams of the Broncos for his multi-dimensionality.

Look at the names of these Pro Bowlers and tell me they're not great players, gaudy stats or not. My point is this: big play LINEBACKERS are usually found on the weakside. Why? Because of scheme and opportunity (depth from the LOS and no TE {typically} to worry about).

Merriman is a pass-rusher. Wade Phillips uses him very much like Belichick used LT in the 3-4 scheme.

For what it's worth, I guess I'm saying that you can name a half-dozen guys who go to Honolulu because they get sacks, and I can name a handful more--LaVar Arrington, Julian Peterson, Takeo Spikes, etc. I guess I just don't want to limit what Dansby does by putting him on the other side. I'd rather have an LB that "struggles with blocking tight ends" than the ones that score 10 TDs a season.

It is my humble belief that if Dansby was moved to the weakside, he would have Derrick Broooks-like numbers, making big-plays that change games. Why would it be a bad thing for Dansby to be associated with the names you mentioned above? These players just don't grow on trees. I'd rather see a playmaker put in a football position to make plays...

If Pace can be effective over the TE, "mauling the TE" and playing zone behind it, and Dansby plays on the weakside, I believe will be seeing Dansby in the Pro Bowl.

 

[jf-08]

I think it is a great article by the Human Hammer. He gets me pumped up about football.

I believe this is a make-or-break season for Pace though. The kid does have some great raw athletic ability.

 

[kerouac9]

If Pace can be effective over the TE, "mauling the TE" and playing zone behind it, and Dansby plays on the weakside, I believe will be seeing Dansby in the Pro Bowl.

That's the thing for me. I don't think Pace can be effective "mauling the TE", because the TE will inevitably get by Pace, and then you're asking Adrian Wilson to cover in man, which isn't what he's best at. I honestly think that we'll see Dansby in the Pro Bowl regardless of what side he plays on, and sooner rather than later.

Looking at Pendergast's defenses, it looks like it asks the back seven to play a lot of man coverage. Lots of Cover-1 defenses with the corners playing off man to protect against the deep pass while Adrian Wilson plays in the box. I haven't seen a lot of zone coverages from the LB corps.

 

[Hardy Brown]

Kerouac,

The reason Clancy Pendergast plays so much man-coverage is because of what you just stated: Adrian Wilson playing in the box. I'm sure you know why he plays in in the box. The Cardinals could not stop the run on a consistent basis, especially after all the injuries. When you commit to an eight-man-front, you've eliminated the possibility of playing the three most common zone-coverages in the league: Cover 2 (or any variations thereof), Cover 3 (three-deep with safety force) and Cover 4 (or quarters, 4-deep with poor safety-force).

Wilson in the box as a change-up or blitzer, fine. But understand this, ideally, you'd like your front 7 to stand on its own and keep your safeties where they belong.

The best defenses in the league DO NOT play eight-man fronts on a regular basis (unless they're getting beat up front). The best defenses in the league play 7-man fronts, rush four down-lineman (getting pressure) and drop 7 into zone-coverage. Man-coverage usually occurs when teams want to go after the quarterback. Even then, I'm sure you would agree, the zone-blitz has put a major dent in this trend.

Wouldn't it be great to see the Cardinals play a seven-man-front and not HAVE to commit eight on the LOS?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Clown,

He will play over the tight-end at 270lbs. In a blitz-front he's almost certain to draw a rb in most protections. It sounds like you played. Would you want to block him from the rb position?

If he can do what the best minds in football think he can, he will be an impact player. I believe that has created the excitement on the staff.

i have played (at a much lower level - div iii college) and have had to block guys his size (though certainly NOT his athleticism - i'm sure he'd make me look like i wished i'd never heard of the sport), and idealistically you don't want a back blocking anyone (regardless of position) one-on-one for any extended period of time. you're more looking for a chip or surprise, or combo block from a back. so no, i wouldn't want a back of mine blocking him.

it's not his potential that i question. the potential has always been there. i just think before the gushing continues (and let's face it, with wolf's article he's gushing) let's see some of it consistently on the field.

i hope you're right.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You like Dansby moving forward/backward? What does this mean?

Everything that follows must be built on the following: this five-down defense is designed to be a change-up to the Cardinals under defense.

The weakside is where play-making backers are placed. The reason for this is rather simplistic: the Will-backer can move around (not having to play over the TE) and, in a 4-3 or 5-down scheme, will most likely HAVE to be blocked by a back (unless you're Shawne Merriman). Look at the six-OLB's from last year's Pro Bowl team:

Cato June (wlb), IND
Joey Porter (wlb), PIT
Lance Briggs (wlb), CHI
Derrick Brooks (wlb), TB
Keith Brooking (wlb), ATL (moved from wlb to mlb in week 6 due to injury and still got voted as an OLB)
Shawne Merriman (wlb in a 3-4 defense, like Lawrence Taylor), SD

Scheme is what places these players in position to make plays and most schemes allow the Will-backer to make plays.

In addition, the will-backer, since he doesn't have to jam the TE, can quickly drop into coverage (picks) or rush the passer from depth (sacks) - hitting the LOS from anywhere. Your Will-backer is typically more athletic than your Sam-backer. Your Sam needs to be able to play over the TE and control the LOS (bigger and stronger). Calvin Pace is much better suited for this - even now - than Dansby. Dansby struggles against blocking TE's. It's one of the reasons WHY Clancy is trying to get somebody bigger over the TE, freeing up Dansby to run, use his athletic ability and make plays.

Pace doesn't need to "cover" TE's or RB's man-to-man. The scheme will control that. As the article says, Pace will do one of three things: rush the passer, maul the TE on the LOS and drop into zone-coverage (not man). Clancy calls the defense and then calls the play. He won't put pace in a poor position.

I apologize for the length of this post.

that's a good post hardy, don't apologize for it.

and i completely agree with you. from time immemorial the best athletes have played the will backer position. it gives them freedom to take full advantage of their speed and athleticism and playmaking ability.

and i completely agree hardy, though i need to see it from pace, pendergast will use him in a way that best suits his physical/mental talents.

 

[Hardy Brown]

(Clown)

it's not his potential that i question. the potential has always been there. i just think before the gushing continues (and let's face it, with wolf's article he's gushing) let's see some of it consistently on the field.

I believe, based on the article, Wolfley may be excited about Pace in this defense BECAUSE it uses his potential wisely, plays to his strengths. Calvin Pace over a tight-end is much different than Calvin Pace over an offensive tackle, especially if his assignments are limited.

For the record, I don't see the "gushing" you do. The article's subject dealt with a five-man line Pendergast was experimenting with. Calvin Pace is the fifth lineman. Everybody knows who the other four lineman are. Wolfley said the animosity toward Pace was "probably" warranted and only speculated as to his impact in this defense. He did say he was rooting for Pace to succeed but I think we all are!

By the way, glad to see you understand the WLB!

 

[Avondale_Larry]

For the record, I learn more about football every time I read Hardy's posts.

Keep it up!

 

[Sandan]

And that larry is the WORD of the day.

I agree completly at least once I've read it for the 4-5th time and understand it

 

[arthurracoon]

For the record, I learn more about football every time I read Hardy's posts.

Keep it up!

 

[Hardy Brown]

Reading through this thread alarmed me. Previously, I said you can't play Cover 3 from an eight-man-front! This is entirely incorrect and a gross error:

Adrian Wilson could easily walk down into the box and still play Cover 3. The SS's responsibility from this front (playing C3) involves playing FORCE (any run that comes his way must be forced by him) or (on a passing play, depending on formation and threat assessment) drop to the strongside flat or hook area. These responsibilities can easily be sustained from an eight-man-front.

I do not beleive I wrote that. Shameful...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

(Clown)

it's not his potential that i question. the potential has always been there. i just think before the gushing continues (and let's face it, with wolf's article he's gushing) let's see some of it consistently on the field.

I believe, based on the article, Wolfley may be excited about Pace in this defense BECAUSE it uses his potential wisely, plays to his strengths. Calvin Pace over a tight-end is much different than Calvin Pace over an offensive tackle, especially if his assignments are limited.

For the record, I don't see the "gushing" you do. The article's subject dealt with a five-man line Pendergast was experimenting with. Calvin Pace is the fifth lineman. Everybody knows who the other four lineman are. Wolfley said the animosity toward Pace was "probably" warranted and only speculated as to his impact in this defense. He did say he was rooting for Pace to succeed but I think we all are!

By the way, glad to see you understand the WLB!

i was a mlb, but, as is usually the case, all lb's were cross-trained in all the lb positions. wlb was by far the most difficult b/c it demanded the most range. and range was never something i was blessed with. read, fill and hit, yes. range, hell no.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Reading through this thread alarmed me. Previously, I said you can't play Cover 3 from an eight-man-front! This is entirely incorrect and a gross error:

Adrian Wilson could easily walk down into the box and still play Cover 3. The SS's responsibility from this front (playing C3) involves playing FORCE (any run that comes his way must be forced by him) or (on a passing play, depending on formation and threat assessment) drop to the strongside flat or hook area. These responsibilities can easily be sustained from an eight-man-front.

I do not beleive I wrote that. Shameful...

we'll let it go this time . . .

 

[DakotaCardsFan]

For the record, I learn more about football every time I read Hardy's posts.

Keep it up!

Agreed! Now if I can just get my Peewee team to understand these principles!

Thanks for posting again Hardy! I hope you're still planning on seeing some of training camp and sharing some observations.

Ouchie, I always enjoy your posts as well. For some reason, every time I see a response to one of your posts that starts with "Clown:" I have to giggle.

 

[Hardy Brown]

I will do what I can. It should be a very interesting training camp. TNT (We know Drama) has nothing on the Arizona Cardinals. Can they create a new paradigm? We shall see...

 

[BigDavis75]

I have to agree with K9 on this one. Dansby has always wanted to play the strongside (he was quoted as saying something along the lines of put me over the TE and leave me there). Also, he put of Pro Bowl numbers from the S/OLB spot. If you put Pace there the TE will beat him, but with Dansby we shut down every TE we faced. What I'm saying is, I would much rather take Dansby out of the pass rush game (for the most part) to shut down the other team's TE because we have other guys to rush the passer (Berry, Chike, etc.) than to pt him in the Pass rush game and have their TE go crazy on us. I understand a good Will is a crucial part of a Cover 2, but a play-making S/OLB isn't seen very often across the NFL and I believe it is an excellent asset to have.

Also, as for the Pro Bowl list, Brooking really isn't that good IMO. There are some good Sams you neglected to mention though: Marcus Washington is excellent, Adalius Thomas, Orr is a very good pass-rusher from the Sam, Davis Thorton received a huge contract from the Titans playing the Sam in Dungy's Cover 2, DJ Williams is a fantastic player, and Julian Peterson and Derrick Johnson are also good players.

 

[Hardy Brown]

Big,

I respectfully disagree. Playmakers should be put in positions to make plays. The Cardinals have no other LB'er with the playmaking capabilities of Dansby.

This is not an attack on Sam-backers. It is a simple, philosophical belief (and football fact, I might add) that playmaking linebackers in the National Football League, in general, play on the weakside. If the Cardinals can find somebody to play over the TE, Dansby will be moved to the weakside before you can say "Franchise Player."

Keith Brooking really isn't that good?

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Made fifth consecutive Pro Bowl appearance (ties team record) despite switching to MLB in week 6 because of injuries and started all 16 games for the fifth year in a row.

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Finished the season with a team-high 150 tackles in addition to establishing career-highs in interceptions (4) and passes defensed (10). Also recorded one fumble recovery and tied a career-high with 3.5 sacks.

Again, I respectfully disagree...

 

[WildBB]

Quote:
The Frankenfive Defense will be raised into the storm July 31, in Flagstaff. Whether or not lightning strikes is anybody’s guess. But if it does, Calvin Pace will most likely be staggering around the gridiron, Condor-like arms stretched in front of him, throwing NFL quarterbacks from burning buildings as the mob closes in. Where Igor failed, giving the monster the brain of a criminal, Dr. Pendergast might succeed, giving life to a much maligned football player.

This analyst is rooting for the Franken-Freak, hoping for the day we can all gather together and scream, “It is a-live…a-live…it’s a-live, I tell you!”

I gotta tell you - I'M SO READY FOR SOME FRANKEN-FREAKIN FOOTBALL!

 

[MadCardDisease]

This thread has "Photoshop" written all over it!

I couldn't resist after seeing this photo from the other thread:

 

[jf-08]

I couldn't resist after seeing this photo from the other thread:

 

[MadCardDisease]

Here is the original for reference:

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