Worse owner, Sarver or Bidwill?

[sunsfan88]

I know a lot if you watch football and are Cardinals fans and everything. I have been lurking around the Cardinals board a lot lately cause my favorite team, the Chargers, just hired your previous HC as OC so I wanted to get some opinions on him.

Anyway, I often hear people talking about how the Cardinals owner, Bill Bidwill is a horrible owner and a lot of people feel the same way about fellow Arizona citizen, Robert Sarver as well.

Both the Cardinals and the Suns are among the worst in their respective sports. The Cardinals have at least 1 player that is top 5 at his position and is easily at least a top 15 player overall. Suns don't have a single player even in top 200 players of the league imo.

The Cardinals had their rise of fame back in 08-'09 while the Suns had it from about 04-'10.

Both franchises haven't quite been the same since losing key players (Warner & Boldin for Cards and Nash & Amare for Suns)

Both owners have made some very questionable decisions.

So it begs the question to those who are Cardinals fans and Suns fans, who's worse? Bidwill or Sarver?

 

[BillsCarnage]

Maybe a thread should be made for the worst or whinniest fans. You know, the type that create a thread or poll like this every month or so.

 

[crisper57]

It is "Bidwill"

As for the answer, let's look.

Bidwill took his sucky franchise from one town to another, based on the promise of a new stadium and enhanced revenue. His hands were tied on securing top talent until that happened. Twenty years later, he finally got his stadium and the team showed glimmers of hope. He hands the team off to his son, who looks like he may not be cut from the same cloth as his old man.

Sarver took one of the most revered and entertaining franchises in the NBA and ran it into the ground.

I think Sarver is guiltier of the worse sin.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

This'll be a blowout.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not any doubt. Sarver is the worst owner. He makes Bill Bidwill look good.

 

[crisper57]

Put another way...

This guy?

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Or this Guy?

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[AzStevenCal]

Looking at the choices you offered, I'm inclined to go with "I don't know enough about the Cardinals to answer this....". I think it was nice of you to admit it but we knew you didn't know much about the Cardinals the moment you called him Bidwill.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

Bidwill....ah that's embarrassing.

 

[Covert Rain]

I didn't ever think this would be possible because I have done my skewering of Bidwill through the years. If he was still calling the shots I probably would have voted him. However, he at some point and time got the sense to step aside.

Sarver?!?!? I can't say enough about how bad an owner this guy is and he is not the type to step aside and as far as I know no son waiting in the wings to do so.

 

[HooverDam]

Bidwill was terrible for a long time, but to some extent he didn't have the funds or resources to compete with other teams. Sarver on the other hand took over an ideal situation and ruined it.

Bidwill also never knocked down pre Statehood era buildings in Downtown Phoenix for a parking lot like Sarver did. So Sarver can go to hell.

 

[wagon mound 464]

Old man Bidwill is the worst by far... His kid has done a much better job since the ole man was kicked aside.

Pappa Bidwill never was concerned with a winning team for St. Louis or Phx,,,,,he just was concerned with the bottom line of 'corporate profit'. The fan base in St. Louis was down to 18,000,,and they wore grocery sacks over their heads to keep others from knowing who they were,,while attending games. He seen that Phx was a sucker market for a NFL team, and moved them here to secure future profits with concessions being granted.

Examine how long it took to have > "A winner in town"
Contribute that to the kid,,not the old man.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Bill Bidwill is no longer functioning as the owner in any way. Michael Bidwill has that job now and is working hard to do it well (I have a close family member that works directly for him).

The Cards have really turned a corner. The problem is that the Suns have too, they are just going in opposite directions.

 

[slinslin]

One question why do all of the Suns ex-employees speak highly of Robert Sarver? Conspiracy?

I have a hard time believing Sarver is nearly as bad he is being portrayed. The biggest problem is Blanks but getting rid off him will require getting rid off Babby first.

And then you have to ask if it is the right time now to replace the entire front office again so quickly and what would a new GM accomplish right now with the stituation we are in there are no quick fixes.

I am pretty sure that the clock is already ticking on Blanks and Babby. I'd guess they have at least this season and the draft more likely next season too.

 

[HooverDam]

One question why do all of the Suns ex-employees speak highly of Robert Sarver? Conspiracy?

What on Gods green Earth are you talking about? I know a few ppl that work for the Suns, in different depts, and they all hate him. 1 of my friends is a former employee of the Wizards and always remarks what a better working environment that was.

 

[IndyDevil]

Sarver. No contest.

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

People either don't remember or are just ignoring the fact that Bidwill was a bottom 5 owner in all pro sports for a very long time. Him handing the team over to his son was more due to his age and not him making a correct decision.

Between 1984 and 2008, the Cardinals had one winning season. One. In 25 years. And after that one season, when the Cardinals went 9-7 and made the 1998 playoffs, Bidwill let it fall apart. Didn't watch it happen. Let it happen.

That 1998 team had three key free agents: Linebacker Jamir Miller, the team's leading tackler; running back Larry Centers, its No. 2 receiver; offensive lineman Lomas Brown, a seven-time Pro Bowl pick and the absolute leader of that locker room.

Bidwill, in his trademark bow tie, let them all go. Too expensive. Even back in St. Louis, before NFL salaries went haywire, Bidwill had been known as a cheapskate. They hated him in St. Louis, hated him to the point that he watched his final game in town, in 1987, in a mostly empty stadium under armed guard because of a death threat. By then his nickname was "Dollar Bill," and not because he looked like George Washington.

In 1999, popular tight end Chris Gedney was unceremoniously released after coming down with ulcerative colitis. For years, players who needed to replace a single pair of tube socks had to explain to team officials why. When Bidwill moved the team to Arizona in 1988, his first goodwill move was to gouge his new market with the highest ticket prices in the NFL. Keep in mind, in 1988 the Cardinals had won just 16 of their previous 48 games.

A few years later, unable to sell all his seats, Bill Bidwill reached out to fans in other cities, offering them deals to buy tickets to watch their team travel to Phoenix and play the Cardinals. You read that right. Bill Bidwill courted opposing fans. Anything to make a buck.

It took 18 years to get a new stadium that he promised when he moved the team here. He finally got a stadium built after the city agreed to raise there contribution. He made money off the stadium being built. He wouldn't sign a 40 year lease that would have got a stadium built shortly after the Cardinals came to town.

He supposedly docked players’ salary for team meals, refused to buy extra socks and rationed Gatorade. He’d do anything to save a buck. In a league built on spending, he saved. He had a near religious opposition to paying market price to retain free agents.

Let's not compare Sarver to Bidwill until Sarver gives us crap team after crap team for 25 years.

 

[crisper57]

People either don't remember or are just ignoring the fact that Bidwill was a bottom 5 owner in all pro sports for a very long time. Him handing the team over to his son was more due to his age and not him making a correct decision.





It took 18 years to get a new stadium that he promised when he moved the team here. He finally got a stadium built after the city agreed to raise there contribution. He made money off the stadium being built. He wouldn't sign a 40 year lease that would have got a stadium built shortly after the Cardinals came to town.



Let's not compare Sarver to Bidwill until Sarver gives us crap team after crap team for 25 years.

Still think Sarver is worse. He took a great franchise in, let's face it, a basketball town and drove it straight into the gutter.

 

[SweetD]

Still think Sarver is worse. He took a great franchise in, let's face it, a basketball town and drove it straight into the gutter.

How many playoffs did the Suns go to vs the Cardinals during Sarver's ownership?

The team sucks now but so did the Cardinals last few years also.

 

[crisper57]

How many playoffs did the Suns go to vs the Cardinals during Sarver's ownership?

The team sucks now but so did the Cardinals last few years also.

Getting into the NBA playoffs is the easiest post-season trip in professional sports. That isn't an accomplishment, it should be an expectation. It used to be one around here, until Sarver came along.

 

[SweetD]

Getting into the NBA playoffs is the easiest post-season trip in professional sports. That isn't an accomplishment, it should be an expectation. It used to be one around here, until Sarver came along.

LOL you do know Sarver purchased the team in 2004 right?

5 Playoff trips, 3 Division Champs, 3 Conference Finals

 

[SweetD]

Getting into the NBA playoffs is the easiest post-season trip in professional sports. That isn't an accomplishment, it should be an expectation. It used to be one around here, until Sarver came along.

Yes because making the playoffs with a loosing record is so much better than making the NBA playoffs. I would say both are equally as hard and neither one should be discredited.

 

[crisper57]

LOL you do know Sarver purchased the team in 2004 right?

5 Playoff trips, 3 Division Champs, 3 Conference Finals

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/

Do you really give him credit for assembling the squads of 04-08 where most of those runs occurred? Nash, Amare, Joe Johnson, Marion, and other key role players were already here. D'Antoni was already coaching here.

Sure, there were deep playoff runs, but that core group was put together before Sarver was here. The only hand he had in the process was systematically dismantling that team and getting next-to-nothing in return.

The only run where Sarver may be some credit was the last time the Suns were in the playoffs. I still don't know how that team got so far.

 

[crisper57]

Yes because making the playoffs with a loosing record is so much better than making the NBA playoffs. I would say both are equally as hard and neither one should be discredited.

Over 50% of the NBA teams make the playoffs, so I do discredit that accomplishment just a little more than the 38% of NFL teams or the (until this year) 27% of MLB teams that made the playoffs. They let more teams into the dance, so it is less special.

 

[SweetD]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/

Do you really give him credit for assembling the squads of 04-08 where most of those runs occurred? Nash, Amare, Joe Johnson, Marion, and other key role players were already here. D'Antoni was already coaching here.

Sure, there were deep playoff runs, but that core group was put together before Sarver was here. The only hand he had in the process was systematically dismantling that team and getting next-to-nothing in return.

The only run where Sarver may be some credit was the last time the Suns were in the playoffs. I still don't know how that team got so far.

Yes the roster was changed dramatically when Sarver too over so, yes I can honestly say he was part of that team.

2003 Roster - Coach Frank Johnson
RkPlayerSalary1Stephon Marbury$13,500,0002Anfernee Hardaway$13,500,0003Tom Gugliotta$11,670,0004Shawn Marion$10,960,0005Jahidi White$5,676,0916Amare Stoudemire$1,899,7207Joe Johnson$1,850,1608Cezary Trybanski$1,600,0009Jake Voskuhl$1,500,00010Zarko Cabarkapa$1,221,24011Scott Williams$1,070,00012Casey Jacobsen$1,011,60013Leandro Barbosa$809,28014Donnell Harvey$663,679

2004 - Coach Mike D
RkPlayerSalary1Shawn Marion$12,330,0002Steve Nash$8,750,0003Quentin Richardson$5,800,0004Howard Eisley$5,201,9235Joe Johnson$2,358,9546Amare Stoudemire$2,032,2007Jake Voskuhl$1,687,5008Zarko Cabarkapa$1,312,8009Casey Jacobsen$1,082,16010Bo Outlaw$1,059,75611Maciej Lampe$900,00012Leandro Barbosa$870,00013Steven Hunter$720,04614Jackson Vroman$385,27715Yuta Tabuse$108,066

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Still think Sarver is worse. He took a great franchise in, let's face it, a basketball town and drove it straight into the gutter.

This town was a basketball town partly BECAUSE of Bidwill and his dealings. The Suns franchise was good but a 2-3 year stretch of being bad, and making ******** moves isn't worse than 25 years of incompetence. The Suns have had their dark days and today is not close to as bad as those.

Stop overreacting.