Worst team in the NBA?

[Trifecta]

What does mean?

You just answered your own question

 

[sunsfan88]

I guess you disagree that Nash is a better defender than Dragic

 

[Chaplin]

Worst team in the NBA?

Um, watch the Detroit Pistons and ask that question again.

 

[sunsfan88]

To be fair it wad the PISTONS who were playing without Stuckey, their leading scorer.

Never the less I will give the Suns credit for holding them to their season low in pts and just straight up dominating the game. But I wanna see this against teams with a true PF and a decent team.

I hope the Suns can prove me wrong for the rest of this year!

 

[BC867]

I guess you disagree that Nash is a better defender than Dragic

It is ironic that Gentry has announced that he will reward the players who are putting forth the best effort with playing time . . . and that defense is now a priority . . . and that Steve Nash played only 19 minutes while Goran Dragic played 28 vs. the Pistons.

Yes, it was a bit of a blowout, but it's still ironic that, when defense is a priority, Steve played less than 48% of the game.

Think about it!

 

[Chaplin]

It is ironic that Gentry has announced that he will reward the players who are putting forth the best effort with playing time . . . and that defense is now a priority . . . and that Steve Nash played only 19 minutes while Goran Dragic played 28 vs. the Pistons.

Yes, it was a bit of a blowout, but it's still ironic that, when defense is a priority, Steve played less than 48% of the game.

Think about it!

Uh huh. And since Nash is such a poor defender, he won't play more than 20 minutes per game the rest of the year. Get real.

 

[Covert Rain]

I guess you disagree that Nash is a better defender than Dragic

No question....hands down.....never a doubt. Admittedly for some reason Dragic doesn't look the same this season. However, you could see a huge difference defensively when he was on the court versus Nash last year.

Nash has historically and statisticaly been one of the worst defensive PG in the entire NBA year in and year out.

 

[mojorizen7]

No question....hands down.....never a doubt. Admittedly for some reason Dragic doesn't look the same this season. However, you could see a huge difference defensively when he was on the court versus Nash last year.

Nash has historically and statisticaly been one of the worst defensive PG in the entire NBA year in and year out.

14 seasons and counting(including his days in Dallas). The only common denominator from '04 thru present day is Nash....which has shown the Suns to annually be at the top of the league offensively,and near the bottom defensively.

 

[sunsfan88]

Dragic knows the technique to be a good defender but when his offense isnt working, it seems like he doesnt try on defense either.

And no Nash didnt play many minutes because a) Dragic needed to log more minutes as a confidence booster. b) it was a blowout and we didnt need him...even Gentry said "any time we get a chance to rest Nash, we'll take advantage of it"

 

[Covert Rain]

Dragic knows the technique to be a good defender but when his offense isnt working, it seems like he doesnt try on defense either.

I don't buy that. However, even if it was true Dragic has something Nash doesn't.....defensive skills. Nash hands down is probably the worst defender on the team or right there.

 

[devilalum]

It is ironic that Gentry has announced that he will reward the players who are putting forth the best effort with playing time . . . and that defense is now a priority . . . and that Steve Nash played only 19 minutes while Goran Dragic played 28 vs. the Pistons.

Yes, it was a bit of a blowout, but it's still ironic that, when defense is a priority, Steve played less than 48% of the game.

Think about it!

Do you believe that Nash's defensive weaknesses are due to a lack of effort?

 

[Mainstreet]

14 seasons and counting(including his days in Dallas). The only common denominator from '04 thru present day is Nash....which has shown the Suns to annually be at the top of the league offensively,and near the bottom defensively.

I think team point differential is the best way to gauge the Suns effectiveness offensively and defensively over the years. Otherwise points scored and points allowed is just a gauge of which teams scores the most points and which teams give up the fewest points. They do not necessarily correlate into wins and losses which is what it is all about. Have you looked at the team point differential since Nash's arrival with the Suns? It would be interesting to see how the Suns rate over this period as it relates to other teams.

Anyone know how to pull up this team information since Nash's arrival in Phoenix?

 

[tobiazz]

I watch all the Suns games and my Friend watches all the Kings games at my house and by FAAAR the Kings are a million times worse, The sad thing is the Kings have talent on Defense but just dont gel, Constantly crying and pointing at each other over who blew the Defensive assignment,

Indeed

 

[sunsfan88]

Yea we're definitely contending to be the worst in NBA.

 

[sunsfan88]

Yea we just hit it I think.

 

[slinslin]

Unfortunately not, it would be lovely if we had the #1 pick for Perry Jones or someone and could trade up for another young player like Kemba Walker.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns lose to Cleveland, they will have a fairly strong hold on worst team after recently losing to the Kings.

 

[slinslin]

Unfortunately we already have 6 more wins than Cleveland. We have 14 wins, Cleveland for instance probably won't finish with more than 18 wins.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I say trade our best players to Cleveland and Sacramento for picks. We're covered both ways.

Steve

 

[cly2tw]

I say trade our best players to Cleveland and Sacramento for picks. We're covered both ways.

Steve

SMART!

 

[jibikao]

I think team point differential is the best way to gauge the Suns effectiveness offensively and defensively over the years. Otherwise points scored and points allowed is just a gauge of which teams scores the most points and which teams give up the fewest points. They do not necessarily correlate into wins and losses which is what it is all about. Have you looked at the team point differential since Nash's arrival with the Suns? It would be interesting to see how the Suns rate over this period as it relates to other teams.

Anyone know how to pull up this team information since Nash's arrival in Phoenix?

I once read a pretty amazing offense efficiency chart on insidehoops about point guards. Some people were bashing Nash because his defense is so bad. And one guy who's been a very long time Celtic fan came in and showed a chart of top 20 Offense Efficiency for every year in NBA History and Nash has 3-4 season in the Top NBA History. And of the top 5, Nash has 2-3 years in it and holds #1 spot too.

His point is (even though he is not a Suns fans) that Point Guards are measured more by their offense contribution (running the team) than defense contribution. Point Guard just don't have as much defense presence as a PF/C. Yes, we all know Nash's defense isn't great. He is not athletic enough to stop some of the best point guards (although some people came in and proved that there's only one or two times when the opposing point guard really went off on Nash in playoffs IE Tony Park, Park is a very different guard. His goal was mainly to score so he could go off on any guard including Chris Paul).

Nash is like a great chef but he needs good ingerident to cook great food. He just can't turn bean curd into great tasting chicken.


What Suns been lacking is a very traditional Center that can BOX OUT. How did Dennis Rodman got that many rebounds? 1. He has instinct for it 2. Luc Longley is a great traditional center who box out effectively. Amare suffers on rebounding sometimes because he didn't have a traditional center that can box out effective and Amare himself is pretty poor on boxing out. Hey, I would feel the same way if I try so hard to box out and other players don't. It's like why bother?

It is sad that Lopez is so uneffective this season. It would have been a break-out year for him since he'll have more touches without Amare.

 

[Mainstreet]

I once read a pretty amazing offense efficiency chart on insidehoops about point guards. Some people were bashing Nash because his defense is so bad. And one guy who's been a very long time Celtic fan came in and showed a chart of top 20 Offense Efficiency for every year in NBA History and Nash has 3-4 season in the Top NBA History. And of the top 5, Nash has 2-3 years in it and holds #1 spot too.

His point is (even though he is not a Suns fans) that Point Guards are measured more by their offense contribution (running the team) than defense contribution. Point Guard just don't have as much defense presence as a PF/C. Yes, we all know Nash's defense isn't great. He is not athletic enough to stop some of the best point guards (although some people came in and proved that there's only one or two times when the opposing point guard really went off on Nash in playoffs IE Tony Park, Park is a very different guard. His goal was mainly to score so he could go off on any guard including Chris Paul).

Nash is like a great chef but he needs good ingerident to cook great food. He just can't turn bean curd into great tasting chicken.


What Suns been lacking is a very traditional Center that can BOX OUT. How did Dennis Rodman got that many rebounds? 1. He has instinct for it 2. Luc Longley is a great traditional center who box out effectively. Amare suffers on rebounding sometimes because he didn't have a traditional center that can box out effective and Amare himself is pretty poor on boxing out. Hey, I would feel the same way if I try so hard to box out and other players don't. It's like why bother?

It is sad that Lopez is so uneffective this season. It would have been a break-out year for him since he'll have more touches without Amare.

This is an excellent post. I find it thought provoking.

 

[elindholm]

This is an excellent post. I find it thought provoking.

Me too. In almost every sentence I was provoked to think, "What in the hell does that mean?"

 

[AzStevenCal]

I once read a pretty amazing offense efficiency chart on insidehoops about point guards. Some people were bashing Nash because his defense is so bad. And one guy who's been a very long time Celtic fan came in and showed a chart of top 20 Offense Efficiency for every year in NBA History and Nash has 3-4 season in the Top NBA History. And of the top 5, Nash has 2-3 years in it and holds #1 spot too.

His point is (even though he is not a Suns fans) that Point Guards are measured more by their offense contribution (running the team) than defense contribution. Point Guard just don't have as much defense presence as a PF/C. Yes, we all know Nash's defense isn't great. He is not athletic enough to stop some of the best point guards (although some people came in and proved that there's only one or two times when the opposing point guard really went off on Nash in playoffs IE Tony Park, Park is a very different guard. His goal was mainly to score so he could go off on any guard including Chris Paul).

Nash is like a great chef but he needs good ingerident to cook great food. He just can't turn bean curd into great tasting chicken.


What Suns been lacking is a very traditional Center that can BOX OUT. How did Dennis Rodman got that many rebounds? 1. He has instinct for it 2. Luc Longley is a great traditional center who box out effectively. Amare suffers on rebounding sometimes because he didn't have a traditional center that can box out effective and Amare himself is pretty poor on boxing out. Hey, I would feel the same way if I try so hard to box out and other players don't. It's like why bother?

It is sad that Lopez is so uneffective this season. It would have been a break-out year for him since he'll have more touches without Amare.

I was with you until the Rodman and Longley comments. Rodman had great instincts and great athletic ability plus a passion for rebounding and I don't think Longley helped him get his numbers any more than I did. Longley blocked out his own players much better than he ever blocked out opponents.

Also, I didn't really think Amare was all that bad at boxing out and was actually pretty good at it this past season. I'm not saying he was great at it but he was serviceable. As best as I can remember, the last guy we had that was actually good at boxing out was Cliff Robinson and people often railed about his weak rebounding numbers. Besides, boxing out is a little different at the NBA level than anywhere else because the players are so big, so quick and so athletic.

Steve

 

[jibikao]

I was with you until the Rodman and Longley comments. Rodman had great instincts and great athletic ability plus a passion for rebounding and I don't think Longley helped him get his numbers any more than I did. Longley blocked out his own players much better than he ever blocked out opponents.

Also, I didn't really think Amare was all that bad at boxing out and was actually pretty good at it this past season. I'm not saying he was great at it but he was serviceable. As best as I can remember, the last guy we had that was actually good at boxing out was Cliff Robinson and people often railed about his weak rebounding numbers. Besides, boxing out is a little different at the NBA level than anywhere else because the players are so big, so quick and so athletic.

Steve

Maybe Amare has improved. The years I've watched, Amare isn't a very good box-out guy because he is too small to be center to begin with and a lot of times he is just too slow to grab rebound. Marion is actually a "gifted" rebounder for his size but he is still not big enough.

People used to say Luc Longley serves no purpose on team and when I was young, I thought the same thing too but his body size allows Rodman to grab many rebounds because Rodman is quick. Luc's job was focusing on boxing out. Well, you can say Luc doesn't have the quickness to box out and jump but his body size certainly helped. Amare didn't have this kind of guy until Lopez last year but then Lopez got injured and now Lopez is just not doing well.

If Amare gives this team another chance this year, Suns could have done just as well, if not a bit better than last year? That's the part Nash "foolishly" thought about.


And I don't blame Amare on this team's defense. Defense takes the whole team, not individual. Individual defense is very over-rated IMO. Even if Amare tried to box out and others don't, the team still gets out-rebounded. Defensively, the Nash/Amare era defense is not the bottom of the barrel. The system sacrifices defense with more offense and the offense efficiency proves that. I root for Suns because I want offense-oriented system to win a championship. It's the under-dog nature in me that enjoys this team. After Nash retires, I probably won't care about NBA anymore. The pressure of watching the game is really messing me up for some reasons. I don't even live in AZ! I used to watch Suns until the year they almost lost to Lakers in the first round (1-3) and then Tim Thomas' miracle shot brought Suns back from 1-3 and eventually won. I live on the East coast and by the time the game finishes on the West coast, it is way too late. It messed up my body and mood 'cause I couldn't fall asleep if Suns lost. LOL

I was hoping Dragic could be the next player that I want to root for...


I am weird. The players that I also like a lot is Diaw. I know many of you hate him but to me, he can create his own shot, he has a bit of size and he can pass and his individual defense isn't that bad. I don't know why Suns hated him that much. I would rank Diaw as my 3rd favorite Suns player during Nash/Amare era. I also like Marion but his half court offense is just too crappy. Every time I watch his dribble, it's like he is going to lose the ball.