Would Brian Flores really be all that bad??

[TheCardFan]

Chopper0080 said:
Flores is two steps from Vance Joseph to me. In fact, I may like HC Vance more than Flores because I feel both of their defensive schemes are overrated at best.

I just don't see why you would keep VJ.

Nearly last in the league as a coordinator.
Couldn't figure out how to use younger players.
Kyler responds to him? Have we seen that?
No thank you.

Fresh start for me.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I have no way to quantify Flores's great leadership. Young players didn't significantly get better while he was there. His QB didn't get significantly better when he was there. I don't feel the franchise became more buttoned up when he was there.

As I have said, Flores would face similar issues in Arizona as he did in Miami and I don't see any reason to believe he will do things any differently. (in fact I think he has said as much)

You also then have no way to quantify he does not have great leadership skills by what he accomplished at Miami and you had to use 'significantly' to endorse a bias against him which might be warranted or not. I am favorable towards him, though you have your assumptions which very well may be more right due to your knowledge of the game, but at the end of the day his ability now after Miami (situations always alter people to some degree) and the different unique dynamics of Arizona in relation to Miami makes this something where hopefully Michael makes his own educated guess with more info than us and gets it right

 

[BritCard]

The Rooney Rule FORCES teams to interview black coaching candidates. The unintended consequence is that sometimes those interviews are to fulfill the rule. I understand not liking the unintended consequence of the rule, but it is what it is. I don't think it is "crapping" on black coaches.

He's suing them because he says he was offered money to lose games. He was set up to fail.

 

[BritCard]

For all this talk of Miami being much better then had a point differential of -7 this year and -25 in Flores final year.

So they are 18 points better off for adding Tyreek, Chubb, Armstead, Mostert, Wilson and having 2nd year Waddle. And had one less win.

That's a net loss considering the capital given up for that talent.

 

[Zalixar]

For all this talk of Miami being much better then had a point differential of -7 this year and -25 in Flores final year.

So they are 18 points better off for adding Tyreek, Chubb, Armstead, Mostert, Wilson and having 2nd year Waddle. And had one less win.

That's a net loss considering the capital given up for that talent.

They had a decent injury depleted roster. Not to mention playing 2nd/3rd string QB for a huge chunk of the season, BW not nearly as good as FItz. Comparison not quite the same.

 

[Chopper0080]

I'd say starting out 1-7, but ending 8-1 is a pretty good indication of leadership. Go back and look at all the headlines of internal turmoil with Flores and the owner (Tua vs Herbert stuff), yet the team never quit, despite everything going on around them and rallied to just miss the playoffs.

I view this differently than you do.

 

[Chopper0080]

He's suing them because he says he was offered money to lose games. He was set up to fail.

In year 1 after he started 0-7. Had nothing to do with years 2 and 3.

 

[Chopper0080]

You also then have no way to quantify he does not have great leadership skills by what he accomplished at Miami and you had to use 'significantly' to endorse a bias against him which might be warranted or not. I am favorable towards him, though you have your assumptions which very well may be more right due to your knowledge of the game, but at the end of the day his ability now after Miami (situations always alter people to some degree) and the different unique dynamics of Arizona in relation to Miami makes this something where hopefully Michael makes his own educated guess with more info than us and gets it right

This is how I hear this argument.

We should hire Flores because he is a great leader.

What proof do you have that he is a great leader?

What proof do you have that he isn't?

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is how I hear this argument.

We should hire Flores because he is a great leader.

What proof do you have that he is a great leader?

What proof do you have that he isn't?

Just wait until news comes out he turned us down... in a moment's notice those extolling his great leadership will call him a race-baiter who didn't really deserve the job anyway.

 

[Chopper0080]

For all this talk of Miami being much better then had a point differential of -7 this year and -25 in Flores final year.

So they are 18 points better off for adding Tyreek, Chubb, Armstead, Mostert, Wilson and having 2nd year Waddle. And had one less win.

That's a net loss considering the capital given up for that talent.

You are just going to ignore that they went from being ranked 22nd in points and 25th in yards to being ranked 11th in points and 6th in yards? In the first year of a new offense. Also, no credit for actually making the playoffs...just going to point out how the previous guy almost made it after a poor start to the season. Suddenly scoring differential is the only stat that matters?

I had to recognize this about my opinion on Kliff. My arguments in support of him all had a catch. If this. If that. In the end, I recognized Kliff was what he was. Circumstances be damned. If you just take Flores's resume for what it was without projecting all of the if's and but's there is just nothing special there.

 

[TheCardFan]

In year 1 after he started 0-7. Had nothing to do with years 2 and 3.

How weird is it that in 2 of 3 seasons (1st and 3rd) - he started the season horrifically?

2019 - 0-7
2021 - 1-8

 

[Chopper0080]

Just wait until news comes out he turned us down... in a moment's notice those extolling his great leadership will call him a race-baiter who didn't really deserve the job anyway.

Yeah. I just don't get it. I mean, as a leader, isn't it on Flores that news leaked that he wanted Herbert and not Tua? I mean, Flores was the only person who benefitted in any way from that news leaking.

 

[TheCardFan]

I am not sure why people are questioning Flores on this...

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[Gandhi]

Yeah. I just don't get it. I mean, as a leader, isn't it on Flores that news leaked that he wanted Herbert and not Tua? I mean, Flores was the only person who benefitted in any way from that news leaking.

Geeez, man. Just accept that you were wrong, and got stubborn to justify yourself. It happens to all of us. No problem. For whatever reason you don't like Flores, and that's cool.

 

[Chopper0080]

Geeez, man. Just accept that you were wrong, and got stubborn to justify yourself. It happens to all of us. No problem. For whatever reason you don't like Flores, and that's cool.

I have no idea what you think I was "wrong" about. Also, this has nothing to do with "liking" Flores. I don't know the guy. I think he is a mid head coaching prospect that won't work because of his time at Miami which wasn't good. IMO, he is walking into a similar situation in AZ and I don't see why it would be different this time.

 

[Chopper0080]

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The Dolphins Didn’t Fire Brian Flores Because of His Coaching​

Flores overachieved in Miami. But he and owner Stephen Ross reportedly didn’t agree on much—especially on Tua Tagovailoa—and that prompted the team to make the stunning decision to move on from the promising head coach.

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www.theringer.com

He lost it because of the relationships he struggled to make and maintain. That message has been delivered, loud and clear. NFL Network’s Steve Wyche said that “coaches don’t often get fired for coaching reasons.” ESPN’s Jeff Darlington said Flores’s “relationship with [Dolphins GM Chris] Grier and Tua [Tagovailoa] had deteriorated to a pretty bad place.” And Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross said “an organization can only function if it’s collaborative and works well together.”

Now, not every player loved Flores—again, Flores’s demeanor is clearly not for everybody. Minkah Fitzpatrick wanted a trade for a reason, believing Flores “had no clue who he was as a player and didn’t care to find out,” as Ty Dunne of Bleacher Report would report.

Flores hired his third (and fourth?) offensive coordinator in three years on the Dolphins job: promoting running backs coach Eric Studesville and tight ends coach George Godsey to co-offensive coordinator roles.

That Tua and the offense didn’t work for the second year in a row is Flores’s fault, in the sense that he is the head coach, and the Sunday product is his responsibility. Flores’s abrasiveness has made it tough for him to attract offensive coaches to work under him. Of his four offensive coordinators over three years, he hired two ex-Patriots positional coaches who had a combined total of one year of previous experience as an offensive coordinator, and two who were already on his staff. The only outside hire he made was luring Chan Gailey out of retirement, which was almost exclusively because Ryan Fitzpatrick was on the team, and which nobody else was trying to do. The head coach is responsible for the team, and Flores’s offenses never worked.

Ugh...i hate when I get into the same(ish) debate in two threads. I guess I will post this here as well.

 

[Jetstream Green]

This is how I hear this argument.

We should hire Flores because he is a great leader.

What proof do you have that he is a great leader?

What proof do you have that he isn't?

I do not have any idea on whether or not he is a 'great' leader' and that is not what is filtering to me being favorable to his hire, but could not help but chime in on people thinking he is great or not, because simply we are not in the locker room and I am surely not going to use Tua who I have never met as a barometer for not being able to handle criticism or his coach at the highest level of his sport. One could lean though to him being a leader regardless of how good he might be, just look what he did with that crap team in Miami

 

[Jetstream Green]

You must be registered for see images attach

The Dolphins Didn’t Fire Brian Flores Because of His Coaching​

Flores overachieved in Miami. But he and owner Stephen Ross reportedly didn’t agree on much—especially on Tua Tagovailoa—and that prompted the team to make the stunning decision to move on from the promising head coach.

You must be registered for see images attach

www.theringer.com

He lost it because of the relationships he struggled to make and maintain. That message has been delivered, loud and clear. NFL Network’s Steve Wyche said that “coaches don’t often get fired for coaching reasons.” ESPN’s Jeff Darlington said Flores’s “relationship with [Dolphins GM Chris] Grier and Tua [Tagovailoa] had deteriorated to a pretty bad place.” And Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross said “an organization can only function if it’s collaborative and works well together.”

Now, not every player loved Flores—again, Flores’s demeanor is clearly not for everybody. Minkah Fitzpatrick wanted a trade for a reason, believing Flores “had no clue who he was as a player and didn’t care to find out,” as Ty Dunne of Bleacher Report would report.

Flores hired his third (and fourth?) offensive coordinator in three years on the Dolphins job: promoting running backs coach Eric Studesville and tight ends coach George Godsey to co-offensive coordinator roles.

That Tua and the offense didn’t work for the second year in a row is Flores’s fault, in the sense that he is the head coach, and the Sunday product is his responsibility. Flores’s abrasiveness has made it tough for him to attract offensive coaches to work under him. Of his four offensive coordinators over three years, he hired two ex-Patriots positional coaches who had a combined total of one year of previous experience as an offensive coordinator, and two who were already on his staff. The only outside hire he made was luring Chan Gailey out of retirement, which was almost exclusively because Ryan Fitzpatrick was on the team, and which nobody else was trying to do. The head coach is responsible for the team, and Flores’s offenses never worked.

Ugh...i hate when I get into the same(ish) debate in two threads. I guess I will post this here as well.

I beg to differ to the extreme, a majority of times coaches do get fired for coaching reasons because their job is to coach

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I beg to differ to the extreme, a majority of times coaches do get fired for coaching reasons because their job is to coach

Kliff was definitely fired because of coaching.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Just wait until news comes out he turned us down... in a moment's notice those extolling his great leadership will call him a race-baiter who didn't really deserve the job anyway.

That's a hot take.

 

[Totally_Red]

You must be registered for see images attach

The Dolphins Didn’t Fire Brian Flores Because of His Coaching​

Flores overachieved in Miami. But he and owner Stephen Ross reportedly didn’t agree on much—especially on Tua Tagovailoa—and that prompted the team to make the stunning decision to move on from the promising head coach.

You must be registered for see images attach

www.theringer.com

He lost it because of the relationships he struggled to make and maintain. That message has been delivered, loud and clear. NFL Network’s Steve Wyche said that “coaches don’t often get fired for coaching reasons.” ESPN’s Jeff Darlington said Flores’s “relationship with [Dolphins GM Chris] Grier and Tua [Tagovailoa] had deteriorated to a pretty bad place.” And Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross said “an organization can only function if it’s collaborative and works well together.”

Now, not every player loved Flores—again, Flores’s demeanor is clearly not for everybody. Minkah Fitzpatrick wanted a trade for a reason, believing Flores “had no clue who he was as a player and didn’t care to find out,” as Ty Dunne of Bleacher Report would report.

Flores hired his third (and fourth?) offensive coordinator in three years on the Dolphins job: promoting running backs coach Eric Studesville and tight ends coach George Godsey to co-offensive coordinator roles.

That Tua and the offense didn’t work for the second year in a row is Flores’s fault, in the sense that he is the head coach, and the Sunday product is his responsibility. Flores’s abrasiveness has made it tough for him to attract offensive coaches to work under him. Of his four offensive coordinators over three years, he hired two ex-Patriots positional coaches who had a combined total of one year of previous experience as an offensive coordinator, and two who were already on his staff. The only outside hire he made was luring Chan Gailey out of retirement, which was almost exclusively because Ryan Fitzpatrick was on the team, and which nobody else was trying to do. The head coach is responsible for the team, and Flores’s offenses never worked.

Ugh...i hate when I get into the same(ish) debate in two threads. I guess I will post this here as well.

That article doesn't portray the kind of "all on one page" guy the Cardinals claim they want. Yikes!!

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's a hot take.

It may not be race-baiting, but those extolling him now because he looks like a front runner will trash him if he doesn’t get the job. That’s just how many on this board work.

Go look at the comments about Cunningham when his name was in the hopper v. When it came out he turned us down for proof of that.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Dude, they tried to pay him to tank. You think they are getting his say so to make roster moves?

Some on here are probably cool with that.

 

[slanidrac16]

I’m so confused….

 

[Jetstream Green]

I’m so confused….

It's the Cardinal way lol