Would our 1st, both 3rd’s, and next years 2nd get us to #3 overall?

[Snakester]

Just stay put & take Rudolph.

He's my number two choice at QB behind Mayfield. Taking him at 15 would keep us from having to trade alot of our picks and we still get our QBOTF. If Mayfield goes top five then this would be plan B for me.

 

[GatorAZ]

If you are trading up, then you have to come to the faithful conclusion that he is a franchise QB. What is worth more, a stud running back with a limited shelf life for his position, or a stud corner and young quarterback of the future. If you do not think a guy like Mayfield is a stud franchise guy, then of course you do not make the trade

Depends on the player. DJ has limited tread on the tires and his major injury wasn't lower body. If you care about the development of a young guarterback you need to give him as much help as possible.

 

[oaken1]

If you are trading up, then you have to come to the faithful conclusion that he is a franchise QB. What is worth more, a stud running back with a limited shelf life for his position, or a stud corner and young quarterback of the future. If you do not think a guy like Mayfield is a stud franchise guy, then of course you do not make the trade

when you have a defensive minded staff, the leagues sack leader and another 10 sack guy coming back off of IR... but only a 34 y/o WR on offense...
to most teams the CB is worth more... but to a team developing a rookie QB the RB is worth more... because the object is to not get him killed before he learns enough to be effective and that RB will be his primary safety blanket.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

At some point, we need to tank an entire season, or trade the farm for a decent QB prospect, being mediocre year after year, keeps us being mediocre year after year.

 

[GimmedaBall]

I’m curious if that combination of picks would get us to #3 overall so we can finally get our guy for QBOTF? After hearing Charley Casserly and Mike Mayock rave about Baker Mayfield, it may be worth that high price to go get him. If he is the next Brees, why not make the investment?

You can use the NFL Draft Value chart to get an idea on these kind of draft day trades. Each slot in each round has been assigned a point value. To trade up, need to come up with at least as many draft value points to move into the slot you desire.

There are variations around this but here's one chart:

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-...com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=ARI

Cards at #15 in the !st round has a value of 1050. The Colts are at #3 in the 1st round with a value of 2200. So, to get the Colts to take the trade, need to make up the points giving up a #1, etc. The draft value falls off pretty quick by the time you get to our #2 at pick #43 has a value of 430---the comp picks haven't been assigned yet (don't know where the Cards picks will be assigned). Our #1 and #2 is not worth it to the Colts for their #1. As it stands, giving up all our picks this year would not be sufficient to move from #15 to #3.

To trade up usually requires that the team trading down gets overwhelmed by the offer with greater than equal draft value points OR believe they can get the guy they want at the trade down slot . . . SK has made numerous trades down while still getting the guy he wanted to at the original spot.

Jimmy Johnson of the Cowboys gets credit for coming up with the value chart idea as a way to make a quick decision during draft day on what trades to make:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/nfl-draft-trade-value-chart/

Oaken1's comment regarding how a team values each player can also impact the value decision. Colts may know that Andrew Luck is finished and will be looking for a new QB---their #3 because way more valuable to them than just the quickie estimates of the value chart.

 

[gimpy]

You know, it's really unfortunate that some guy over in the Sun's thread really started talking and advocating tanking last year. Now, everybody wants to tank and LOSE.

I just don't understand it.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

You know, it's really unfortunate that some guy over in the Sun's thread really started talking and advocating tanking last year. Now, everybody wants to tank and LOSE.

I just don't understand it.

I think ownership is going with the "tank a season" option... as evidenced by hiring McCoy as OC.

 

[Gandhi]

I think it should be said in this thread what Cardncubfan told us in another thread. I really hope it is okay with him that I copy his post in here. If not I apologize to you, Cardncubfan, and it’s obviously perfectly fine if this post is deleted.

A rumor about the draft three months away is obviously a bit doubtful but I think it is interesting none the less.

This is in the comments section of an article on NFL.com on the top 4 QB's. I've never heard any rumors about this. This of course was written before BA retired.


''Their is a rumor out there Arizona could trade all the way up to take QB Sam Darnold. As good as I think he will be I'm not sure i'd want them to do that, as trading up that high means giving up a ton to go get him and given the cost it would take to move up 14-15 spots the Browns very likely would do it as they still have the 4th pick in the draft and could take Wyomings QB Josh Allen who of all the QB's BY FAR is the best fit for the AFC North with that arm of his and they could the picks they would get to really build that roster. I just dont see Arizona morgtaging their future like that but we will see. Arizona's GM also personally went to the Potato Bowl to watch 6"5 QB Josh Allen play, if AZ decides not to go way up in the draft and Allen falls to says 8-10th I could see the Cardinals pulling the trigger on him though they would still bring in a veteran QB like an Alex Smith/Case Keenum and develop Allen slowly over 1-2yrs most likely. I think Allen could be a more athletic version of Big Ben in the NFL, remember when Big Ben first got to the NFL he was not a good passer either though he of course had the huge arm, he developed into an elite NFL passer under Bruce Arians in the NFL.''

Also, in another thread Chopper wrote that he would be fine with dealing three first round picks for the rights to draft quarterback Sam Darnold. I completely agree with that. As long as it is not five or six picks like the Rams did, although they did get some in return, I would have not problem with it.

 

[Solar7]

I think it should be said in this thread what Cardncubfan told us in another thread. I really hope it is okay with him that I copy his post in here. If not I apologize to you, Cardncubfan, and it’s obviously perfectly fine if this post is deleted.

A rumor about the draft three months away is obviously a bit doubtful but I think it is interesting none the less.



Also, in another thread Chopper wrote that he would be fine with dealing three first round picks for the rights to draft quarterback Sam Darnold. I completely agree with that. As long as it is not five or six picks like the Rams did, although they did get some in return, I would have not problem with it.

I don't really trust any random comment section rumors that are rife with misspellings.

But man, for this franchise to trade three years of first round picks for a guy who hasn't thrown a pass yet in the NFL? When we're as old and in need of legitimate WRs as we are? That would really scuttle the team. I'd definitely not renew my tickets.

 

[oaken1]

I don't really trust any random comment section rumors that are rife with misspellings.

But man, for this franchise to trade three years of first round picks for a guy who hasn't thrown a pass yet in the NFL? When we're as old and in need of legitimate WRs as we are? That would really scuttle the team. I'd definitely not renew my tickets.

I know you find the thought terrifying, lol... But as far as WR goes it aint that bad. Other than Golden and jauron Brown who are both "okay"... we have the young guys Williams and Agudosi...and Larry... this draft has some nice depth at WR with guys who can be had as deep as the third round who can step in and start from day one.
If we draft a kid like Simmie Cobbs in the second, then best interior olinemen available in the third... then sign a guy like Jarvis Landry(WR) and maybe Norwell(OG).... we are all set on offense with lots of youth and some decent vet leadership as well.

it all runs through the line. We can have three pro bowl WR's but they are worthless without a QB to get the ball to them...and a bad oline seriously inhibits the QB

This team is not that old...we just have a few players who bring up the average. It's not like we have a bunch of 40 y/o running around out there

If you trade the farm for a QB...as long as he is the right kid and starts for you its the best choice...
why?
say we lose the first round picks the next two years..okay.

but during those two years we are paying our starting QB $2mil per year instead of $26mil per year... That extra $24mil per year then turns into at least one top tier free agent each year...a top tier free agent is kinda like a first round pick but better...because you already know he can start in the nfl and play at a high level.
but then guess what?? On year three we now have a first round pick again...and year four, and year five... and for all of these years we are still saving huge money on the QB spot, so we can get top tier free agents.....and we still get to draft in the first round.

There is only one way it goes bad. If the player cannot play...rather it be injury or busting out or whatever...it is the only way its a bad situation.... because then you have to spend money to replace him.

 

[ARZCardinals]

You'd have to give up this years 1st and 2nd, next years 1st and second and the following years 1st.

You'd be mortgaging the farm. It's one heck of a risk. Not one I see Keim doing.

 

[cardncubfan]

I think it should be said in this thread what Cardncubfan told us in another thread. I really hope it is okay with him that I copy his post in here. If not I apologize to you, Cardncubfan, and it’s obviously perfectly fine if this post is deleted.

A rumor about the draft three months away is obviously a bit doubtful but I think it is interesting none the less.



Also, in another thread Chopper wrote that he would be fine with dealing three first round picks for the rights to draft quarterback Sam Darnold. I completely agree with that. As long as it is not five or six picks like the Rams did, although they did get some in return, I would have not problem with it.

No problem here Gandhi. I always enjoy reading your posts anyway.

 

[Solar7]

I know you find the thought terrifying, lol... But as far as WR goes it aint that bad. Other than Golden and jauron Brown who are both "okay"... we have the young guys Williams and Agudosi...and Larry... this draft has some nice depth at WR with guys who can be had as deep as the third round who can step in and start from day one.
If we draft a kid like Simmie Cobbs in the second, then best interior olinemen available in the third... then sign a guy like Jarvis Landry(WR) and maybe Norwell(OG).... we are all set on offense with lots of youth and some decent vet leadership as well.

it all runs through the line. We can have three pro bowl WR's but they are worthless without a QB to get the ball to them...and a bad oline seriously inhibits the QB

This team is not that old...we just have a few players who bring up the average. It's not like we have a bunch of 40 y/o running around out there

If you trade the farm for a QB...as long as he is the right kid and starts for you its the best choice...
why?
say we lose the first round picks the next two years..okay.

but during those two years we are paying our starting QB $2mil per year instead of $26mil per year... That extra $24mil per year then turns into at least one top tier free agent each year...a top tier free agent is kinda like a first round pick but better...because you already know he can start in the nfl and play at a high level.
but then guess what?? On year three we now have a first round pick again...and year four, and year five... and for all of these years we are still saving huge money on the QB spot, so we can get top tier free agents.....and we still get to draft in the first round.

There is only one way it goes bad. If the player cannot play...rather it be injury or busting out or whatever...it is the only way its a bad situation.... because then you have to spend money to replace him.

The cheap QB argument only holds water if, as you say, he lives up to the hype. Remember, we don't have many WRs under contract right now either. It's Larry - who may retire - Williams, and Nelson. The other guys we need to give money to in order for them to stick around. We need picks and money to bring in replacement players - and it's not often that players of elite talent make it to free agency. However, they ARE drafted. What if our QB struggles next year, as most rookies do? Then we're giving up a top 5 pick to the Browns, or Colts, or whoever... that guy could be the next Larry Fitzgerald, but now we're stuck paying Jarvis Landry $15m per to be our #1 receiver.

Gotta keep ammunition in the gun.

 

[juza76]

Are we sure he is the consensous 1st round pick?
Im not, there is a good class, and we can wait tll pick 5/6 before moving up
I can see him keim investing a 2019 first round pick but not further first round picks

 

[Cheesebeef]

The cheap QB argument only holds water if, as you say, he lives up to the hype. Remember, we don't have many WRs under contract right now either. It's Larry - who may retire - Williams, and Nelson. The other guys we need to give money to in order for them to stick around. We need picks and money to bring in replacement players - and it's not often that players of elite talent make it to free agency. However, they ARE drafted. What if our QB struggles next year, as most rookies do? Then we're giving up a top 5 pick to the Browns, or Colts, or whoever... that guy could be the next Larry Fitzgerald, but now we're stuck paying Jarvis Landry $15m per to be our #1 receiver.

Gotta keep ammunition in the gun.

It’s pointless to have a gun if there’s no one to fire it.

 

[sdscard4]

Better not trade anything for these QBs.
Id rather have Lamar Jackson and not have to give up much. All this 3 1st rounders is whack

 

[oaken1]

The cheap QB argument only holds water if, as you say, he lives up to the hype. Remember, we don't have many WRs under contract right now either. It's Larry - who may retire - Williams, and Nelson. The other guys we need to give money to in order for them to stick around. We need picks and money to bring in replacement players - and it's not often that players of elite talent make it to free agency. However, they ARE drafted. What if our QB struggles next year, as most rookies do? Then we're giving up a top 5 pick to the Browns, or Colts, or whoever... that guy could be the next Larry Fitzgerald, but now we're stuck paying Jarvis Landry $15m per to be our #1 receiver.

Gotta keep ammunition in the gun.

so...you dont want to spend firsts to trade up because you are afraid the staff will screw up the pick and grab the wrong guy,...and instead those picks can be used on guys who will become elite players??

is our staff capable of identifying an elite player or aint they?

If they can identify an elite DT or an elite WR,...they should be able to identify an elite QB....in which case the picks were not wasted.

 

[BillsCarnage]

Just stay put & take Rudolph.

Yup. He's projected to be a late first or early second round pick on some boards. If he has a good combine showing he might be in a prime spot for the Cards. I'm warming up to the Rudolph train.

 

[POISON]

I’m curious if that combination of picks would get us to #3 overall so we can finally get our guy for QBOTF? After hearing Charley Casserly and Mike Mayock rave about Baker Mayfield, it may be worth that high price to go get him. If he is the next Brees, why not make the investment?

Mayfield has bust written all over him. I wouldn't do it!

 

[POISON]

Screw that, put David Johnson in there... shutdown corners are hard to find, or what a shutdown corner represents now at least

No way, that would be a disaster

 

[Jetstream Green]

No way, that would be a disaster

Sure, what about no Patrick Peterson and you are depending on David Johnson to make up the score when a quarterback is having his way with his top WR. Some people have no freaking idea the worth of Patrick Peterson in relation to David Johnson... Patrick Peterson is worth a hell of a lot more and that would be a disaster to trade him

 

[Mainstreet]

You know, it's really unfortunate that some guy over in the Sun's thread really started talking and advocating tanking last year. Now, everybody wants to tank and LOSE.

I just don't understand it.

It's contagious, I tell you contagious.

Need to take a decontamination shower when you leave the Suns forum.

The Cardinals forum has always been a sanctuary. Hopefully it stays that way.

 

[POISON]

Sure, what about no Patrick Peterson and you are depending on David Johnson to make up the score when a quarterback is having his way with his top WR. Some people have no freaking idea the worth of Patrick Peterson in relation to David Johnson... Patrick Peterson is worth a hell of a lot more and that would be a disaster to trade him

I wouldn't trade PP either, along with DJ. This love fest for Mayfield is crazy. NO WAY I'd give up 3 #1's for ANY qb in this draft. We need a qb for sure, may get one at #15. These qbs could drop.

 

[Solar7]

so...you dont want to spend firsts to trade up because you are afraid the staff will screw up the pick and grab the wrong guy,...and instead those picks can be used on guys who will become elite players??

is our staff capable of identifying an elite player or aint they?

If they can identify an elite DT or an elite WR,...they should be able to identify an elite QB....in which case the picks were not wasted.

My argument is that in this team sport, giving yourself 3-4 shots at good-great players is better than shooting for the moon and counting on one guy to be your future.

Pretend this year was 2015. Would you rather trade your 1, 2, and 3, plus next year’s second, for Marcus Mariota, or have DJ Humphries, Markus Golden, David Johnson, and Chandler Jones?

Because that’s what it’s going to take to move up to #2/3 and all of those players were acquired with picks later than the ones we have this year.

 

[WisconsinCard]

It’s pointless to have a gun if there’s no one to fire it.

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