Would our 1st, both 3rd’s, and next years 2nd get us to #3 overall?

[oaken1]

My argument is that in this team sport, giving yourself 3-4 shots at good-great players is better than shooting for the moon and counting on one guy to be your future.

Pretend this year was 2015. Would you rather trade your 1, 2, and 3, plus next year’s second, for Marcus Mariota, or have DJ Humphries, Markus Golden, David Johnson, and Chandler Jones?

Because that’s what it’s going to take to move up to #2/3 and all of those players were acquired with picks later than the ones we have this year.

the thing is... nobody wanted to trade up for Marcus Mariotta or Jaimeis Winston.


pretend its 1998 and we are trading up for Peyton Manning.

the simple truth is, the right QB can carry your team to a super bowl with an average defense while without a great QB you have to have a league leading rushing game and a legendary defense to win a Super Bowl.

If I knew for certain the QB was gonna have the same career as Manning I would GIVE the team Jones, Golden, Humphries and Johnson and start building the team around the guy from scratch.
and those are all known quantities....and as you have stated, draft picks aint even known quantities, they are just "chances"

considering how Keim has drafted in the first two rounds, well...for us they aint even real good chances.

 

[Solar7]

the thing is... nobody wanted to trade up for Marcus Mariotta or Jaimeis Winston.


pretend its 1998 and we are trading up for Peyton Manning.

the simple truth is, the right QB can carry your team to a super bowl with an average defense while without a great QB you have to have a league leading rushing game and a legendary defense to win a Super Bowl.

If I knew for certain the QB was gonna have the same career as Manning I would GIVE the team Jones, Golden, Humphries and Johnson and start building the team around the guy from scratch.
and those are all known quantities....and as you have stated, draft picks aint even known quantities, they are just "chances"

considering how Keim has drafted in the first two rounds, well...for us they aint even real good chances.

Y'know, except for the fact that Chip Kelly was desperately trying to trade up for Mariota... and it was reported that the Browns, Rams, and Chargers all had interest.

And that we're not trading for 1998 Peyton Manning this season, we'd be trading for a guy that hasn't yet cemented himself as the firm #1 overall pick. Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield are impressive, but are they Manning? No. Rosen couldn't elevate his team to .500 in 2017. Darnold threw half as many picks as touchdowns. Mayfield got beaten out at Texas Tech and is only 6'0. All of these players have warts.

The point is, you have absolutely no clue if any of these guys are the next Peyton Manning. He played for four years in the most challenging conference in football and consistently challenged for a National Championship while getting his number retired. The best anyone has about this year's QB class is an educated guess.

 

[Buckybird]

I wouldn't trade PP either, along with DJ. This love fest for Mayfield is crazy. NO WAY I'd give up 3 #1's for ANY qb in this draft. We need a qb for sure, may get one at #15. These qbs could drop.

Yeah I remember peeps saying the same when the Iggles jumped up for Wentz. All I know is this, the value of a QB trumps everything in the draft unless you already have a franchise guy. If you want to gamble you have to push some chips to the middle of the table & the Big Red haven’t played Cards in forever & we’ve yet to find that long term QB.

Identify your QB & go get him!!! It’s the surest way for long term success & the best chance of winning a World Championship. We all seen what happened last year when Keim sat pat & lost out on his 2 guys that could’ve turned us into a consistent title contender

Btw didn’t even almost everyone here say they would’ve give up a 1 or 2 for Jimmy G? How’s that working out? Just like I said at the time lol

The Cards are looking more & more like cellar dwellers each year unless we find that QB who has special skills & “it”

 

[Arz101]

Yeah I remember peeps saying the same when the Iggles jumped up for Wentz. All I know is this, the value of a QB trumps everything in the draft unless you already have a franchise guy. If you want to gamble you have to push some chips to the middle of the table & the Big Red haven’t played Cards in forever & we’ve yet to find that long term QB.

Identify your QB & go get him!!! It’s the surest way for long term success & the best chance of winning a World Championship. We all seen what happened last year when Keim sat pat & lost out on his 2 guys that could’ve turned us into a consistent title contender

Leap from #15 to #2 or #3 position in draft is too steep. It is just not worth it. If there is a player that slides to #7 or #8 position, yeah, Keim cannot chicken out then.

 

[Arz101]

Yeah I remember peeps saying the same when the Iggles jumped up for Wentz. All I know is this, the value of a QB trumps everything in the draft unless you already have a franchise guy. If you want to gamble you have to push some chips to the middle of the table & the Big Red haven’t played Cards in forever & we’ve yet to find that long term QB.

Identify your QB & go get him!!! It’s the surest way for long term success & the best chance of winning a World Championship. We all seen what happened last year when Keim sat pat & lost out on his 2 guys that could’ve turned us into a consistent title contender

Btw didn’t even almost everyone here say they would’ve give up a 1 or 2 for Jimmy G? How’s that working out? Just like I said at the time lol

The Cards are looking more & more like cellar dwellers each year unless we find that QB who has special skills & “it”

I was thinking if Cards can spend some serious coin they may get Levon Bell. In that scenario DJ may be traded. But even then it hurts to think about trading away a homebrew'd top #2 or #3 RB in his prime.

 

[TRW]

I was thinking if Cards can spend some serious coin they may get Levon Bell. In that scenario DJ may be traded. But even then it hurts to think about trading away a homebrew'd top #2 or #3 RB in his prime.

He is a great player but I wouldn't expend the coin on a RB no matter how talented he is. Plus Bell is a complete diva/me first guy and I sort of didn't like reading some of his antics at the end of this season. Not worth it IMO. RB is not a glaring need, IF DJ really is as good as he seems.

 

[Buckybird]

Leap from #15 to #2 or #3 position in draft is too steep. It is just not worth it. If there is a player that slides to #7 or #8 position, yeah, Keim cannot chicken out then.

I know it’s not the the same picks & would cost slightly more, but hypothetically to say it’s not worth it is lunacy imo.

If you knew you could get the guy you identified that is “the guy” the picks aren’t worth it? A QB that could play for you 10+ years & possibly when you a SB? That’s not worth it?

Tell that to the Iggles...which team would you rather be? Right now the Chiefs & Texans have better futures than our Cards because they most likely got a pretty darn good QB.

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Worth every penny & draft pick they spent!

 

[Arz101]

I know it’s not the the same picks & would cost slightly more, but hypothetically to say it’s not worth it is lunacy imo.

If you knew you could get the guy you identified that is “the guy” the picks aren’t worth it? A QB that could play for you 10+ years & possibly when you a SB? That’s not worth it?

Tell that to the Iggles...which team would you rather be? Right now the Chiefs & Texans have better futures than our Cards because they most likely got a pretty darn good QB.

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Worth every penny & draft pick they spent!

For every successful trade like this, isn't there an RG3 trade too?

 

[Solar7]

I know it’s not the the same picks & would cost slightly more, but hypothetically to say it’s not worth it is lunacy imo.

If you knew you could get the guy you identified that is “the guy” the picks aren’t worth it? A QB that could play for you 10+ years & possibly when you a SB? That’s not worth it?

Tell that to the Iggles...which team would you rather be? Right now the Chiefs & Texans have better futures than our Cards because they most likely got a pretty darn good QB.

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Worth every penny & draft pick they spent!

Honestly... is it?

They're in the Super Bowl with Nick Foles right now. Wentz hasn't played in a month and a half, yet they find themselves in the promised land.

What keeps being ignored here is two big things - what if there isn't "the guy?" What if we, and other teams, look at all of these QBs and we say "well, we really like 3 of the top 5," instead of "there's the surefire real thing?" Second, you can't ignore that we can't just automatically have "our guy." I've said it over and over and over again, but if we identify Sam Darnold as the guy we want, but so does Cleveland, we're not going to get him. That's it, it's over - teams don't just move away from surefire franchise quarterbacks.

The other two big points that I keep making are:

1. History is 99% against this move working out.
2. There are no guarantees. All of the research in the world isn't going to stop one of these QBs from tearing an ACL, becoming a drug addict, or just plainly not adjusting to the speed or preparation of the game.

 

[oaken1]

Y'know, except for the fact that Chip Kelly was desperately trying to trade up for Mariota... and it was reported that the Browns, Rams, and Chargers all had interest.

And that we're not trading for 1998 Peyton Manning this season, we'd be trading for a guy that hasn't yet cemented himself as the firm #1 overall pick. Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield are impressive, but are they Manning? No. Rosen couldn't elevate his team to .500 in 2017. Darnold threw half as many picks as touchdowns. Mayfield got beaten out at Texas Tech and is only 6'0. All of these players have warts.

The point is, you have absolutely no clue if any of these guys are the next Peyton Manning. He played for four years in the most challenging conference in football and consistently challenged for a National Championship while getting his number retired. The best anyone has about this year's QB class is an educated guess.

nobody traded up for Mariotta...there are always "reports"

Mayfield didnt get beat out at TT,... he lost his job to webb due to an injury,..actually got it back for the last couple games but decided to transfer anyway...webb later got injured and lost his job to mahommes so webb transferred to cal

Darnold actually has cemented himself as the top overall pick....unless "reports" are correct and the Browns owner is starting to become infatuated with Mayfield like he was with Manziel.... That would be awesome for us... because everyone already assumes he is a Brown and is looking more closely at the other QB's...if the Browns screw it up Darnold may actually slide...we could get lucky

actually.... Manning was not "cemented" as the #1 overall pick... there was lots of talk about Ryan Leaf being the guy at #1
But I will concede that Darnold is not Manning... as I have mentioned before,..IMO he is Carson Palmer 2.0... nearly identical,.. but younger and with two good knees... Carson Palmer was also cemented as #1 overall.

This draft is actually fantastic for us... we need a QB, an interior lineman, and a WR... all three are rich in the first three rounds of this draft.
Darnold
Rosen
Mayfield
Allen
Jackson
Rudolph
all six of those guys will start in the NFL if they are drafted by the right club....and a couple of them will still be on the board at 15, any one of them is worth the pick...but its a little sketchy with Rudolph IMO.. its a good thing that Denver fell in love with Allen at the senior bowl, they coached him up a little and it showed right away in his play which is also good.

Cleveland drafted deshone kizer last year... and they have the youngest team in the league. they really need a veteran QB... I dont think they will draft a QB at #1 honestly. They have tons of cap space so they can either throw the checkbook at Kirk Cousins or make a deal for Alex Smith...and develop Kizer behind Smith...even Kizers college coach said before the draft he needs another year before he is NFL ready... but the Browns threw him to the wolves anyway...if they didnt ruin him he could still be in play to take over from a guy like Smith and a couple years. Plus, the Browns also have the top pick in round 2 and a QB will fall to the second round.

In NY, ownership believes Eli still has a few years to contribute. They also just drafted Davis Webb...the guy who was in the mix at TT with Mayfield and Mahommes. If they think Eli has three seasons left, now is not the time to draft a QB...if they plug some holes they can still win...eli gives them a better chance due to experience.... I dont think they will draft a QB in round one this year either.

at 3 is Indy. It isnt just about Luck either... they just spent resources to bring in Jacoby Brissett... he failed, but it was clearly due to lack of a run threat... having just traded for a young QB, even if they have no faith in Luck returning I dont think they draft a QB either

then the Browns again at 4... IMO they will address RB and either Oline or dline with their picks. Their franchise LT Joe Thomas is getting close to retirement and they need to have his replacement in the wings and ready to go.

So, then we have Denver at #5...with their choice of all six top QB's...and they fell in love with Josh Allen at the senior bowl... because the dude has a howitzer for an arm....they are seeing visions in their heads of Elway throwing the "Big Red X"

so,...yeah.. thats how I think it will play out if there are no trades. Josh Allen will be the first QB off the board at #5 to denver... the QB everyone thought may slide to the early second round two months ago will be the first off the board.

watch Buffalo... they need a QB and currently have the 20 and 25 picks... they might package them up with next years first and make a move for clevelands #4
it helps both teams...the browns can get their top guy at 1,... then get a lineman at 20 and a WR or LB at 25... they would then have the fifth year option on three instead of two.

 

[oaken1]

For every successful trade like this, isn't there an RG3 trade too?

thats all on the GM right there.... the team has to choose the right guy to make a move for. Part of that decision is making sure you have the players to keep the guy alive.... the skins barely kept RG alive, lol...

 

[Arz101]

thats all on the GM right there.... the team has to choose the right guy to make a move for. Part of that decision is making sure you have the players to keep the guy alive.... the skins barely kept RG alive, lol...

Teams that lose too much draft capital cannot build a good enough team to know if their QB is good or bad.


Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

 

[Solar7]

nobody traded up for Mariotta...there are always "reports"

Mayfield didnt get beat out at TT,... he lost his job to webb due to an injury,..actually got it back for the last couple games but decided to transfer anyway...webb later got injured and lost his job to mahommes so webb transferred to cal

Darnold actually has cemented himself as the top overall pick....unless "reports" are correct and the Browns owner is starting to become infatuated with Mayfield like he was with Manziel.... That would be awesome for us... because everyone already assumes he is a Brown and is looking more closely at the other QB's...if the Browns screw it up Darnold may actually slide...we could get lucky

actually.... Manning was not "cemented" as the #1 overall pick... there was lots of talk about Ryan Leaf being the guy at #1
But I will concede that Darnold is not Manning... as I have mentioned before,..IMO he is Carson Palmer 2.0... nearly identical,.. but younger and with two good knees... Carson Palmer was also cemented as #1 overall.

This draft is actually fantastic for us... we need a QB, an interior lineman, and a WR... all three are rich in the first three rounds of this draft.
Darnold
Rosen
Mayfield
Allen
Jackson
Rudolph
all six of those guys will start in the NFL if they are drafted by the right club....and a couple of them will still be on the board at 15, any one of them is worth the pick...but its a little sketchy with Rudolph IMO.. its a good thing that Denver fell in love with Allen at the senior bowl, they coached him up a little and it showed right away in his play which is also good.

Cleveland drafted deshone kizer last year... and they have the youngest team in the league. they really need a veteran QB... I dont think they will draft a QB at #1 honestly. They have tons of cap space so they can either throw the checkbook at Kirk Cousins or make a deal for Alex Smith...and develop Kizer behind Smith...even Kizers college coach said before the draft he needs another year before he is NFL ready... but the Browns threw him to the wolves anyway...if they didnt ruin him he could still be in play to take over from a guy like Smith and a couple years. Plus, the Browns also have the top pick in round 2 and a QB will fall to the second round.

In NY, ownership believes Eli still has a few years to contribute. They also just drafted Davis Webb...the guy who was in the mix at TT with Mayfield and Mahommes. If they think Eli has three seasons left, now is not the time to draft a QB...if they plug some holes they can still win...eli gives them a better chance due to experience.... I dont think they will draft a QB in round one this year either.

at 3 is Indy. It isnt just about Luck either... they just spent resources to bring in Jacoby Brissett... he failed, but it was clearly due to lack of a run threat... having just traded for a young QB, even if they have no faith in Luck returning I dont think they draft a QB either

then the Browns again at 4... IMO they will address RB and either Oline or dline with their picks. Their franchise LT Joe Thomas is getting close to retirement and they need to have his replacement in the wings and ready to go.

So, then we have Denver at #5...with their choice of all six top QB's...and they fell in love with Josh Allen at the senior bowl... because the dude has a howitzer for an arm....they are seeing visions in their heads of Elway throwing the "Big Red X"

so,...yeah.. thats how I think it will play out if there are no trades. Josh Allen will be the first QB off the board at #5 to denver... the QB everyone thought may slide to the early second round two months ago will be the first off the board.

watch Buffalo... they need a QB and currently have the 20 and 25 picks... they might package them up with next years first and make a move for clevelands #4
it helps both teams...the browns can get their top guy at 1,... then get a lineman at 20 and a WR or LB at 25... they would then have the fifth year option on three instead of two.

That's a lot of mental gymnastics for a very unlikely scenario.

I will buy you a steak dinner if no one but the Cardinals drafts a QB before #5 in this draft.

I do agree that this draft is rich in the positions that we need, which is why I don't want to discard those picks.

thats all on the GM right there.... the team has to choose the right guy to make a move for. Part of that decision is making sure you have the players to keep the guy alive.... the skins barely kept RG alive, lol...

Like Arz said, you need picks to do that. And for what it's worth, what if the GM doesn't have a guy he particularly loves? What if he likes multiple, or what if he doesn't like any at all? Should he just get panicked and move up anyways?

 

[WisconsinCard]

Last five drafts (first round QBS) which of these would you trade three or even two first round picks for, before the draft and now that, you know what kind of player they are.


2017

Mitch Trubisky

Patrick Mahommes

Deshawn Watson


2016

Jared Goff

Carson Wentz

Paxton Lynch


2015

Jameis Winston

Marcus Mariota


2014

Blake Bortles

Johnny Manzel

Teddy Bridgewater


2013

EJ Manuel

 

[oaken1]

That's a lot of mental gymnastics for a very unlikely scenario.

I will buy you a steak dinner if no one but the Cardinals drafts a QB before #5 in this draft.

I do agree that this draft is rich in the positions that we need, which is why I don't want to discard those picks.



Like Arz said, you need picks to do that. And for what it's worth, what if the GM doesn't have a guy he particularly loves? What if he likes multiple, or what if he doesn't like any at all? Should he just get panicked and move up anyways?

just watch how it plays out... things are going to change a lot between now and the draft... most of the "the sky is falling!! My team needs a QB'...is coming from sports reporters trying to find something to stir up. The teams in front of us are not as desperate as the reporters make them out to be.

as for Keim and our scouting department?? I would hope they have a few guys they feel we can win with.
But these QB's have different styles in play... which IMO is exactly why we hired McCoy as OC.
like i said previously any of the top 6 QB's are worth the #15 pick... it might be a slight reach for a couple of them... but those guys wouldnt be on the board when we pick in the second...so rather than playing games and risking trading back, or up in the second...if you like the guy just take him at 15..

while I am cool with Keim trading up to get his guy I also think we have a solid chance where we are...
we dont "Have" to trade up...simply because there is more than just one or two QB's.

If it were just Darnold and Rosen.... then call cleveland and dont let them off the phone until we have the number 1 pick. But it aint.

I think they need to identify their three or four top guys... then as the draft progresses, when the first two are gone start looking at trade options... when only one remains then do what ya gotta do to move up and get him if moving up is required.

what I dont want to see...is a couple QB's coming into the teens...and Keim trades back 2 or 3 spots thinking he can still get his guy while adding a third round pick. because if he does that...then a team like Pittsburgh will trade in front of us and take our guy.

I have the guys I like but honestly I dont care who they get. I just want to see them be proactive, decisive,... decide and make it happen.

 

[Solar7]

Last five drafts (first round QBS) which of these would you trade three or even two first round picks for, before the draft and now that, you know what kind of player they are.


2017

Mitch Trubisky

Patrick Mahommes

Deshawn Watson


2016

Jared Goff

Carson Wentz

Paxton Lynch


2015

Jameis Winston

Marcus Mariota


2014

Blake Bortles

Johnny Manzel

Teddy Bridgewater


2013

EJ Manuel

Literally only maybe two, and I'd have to think about it for a very long time.

 

[Solar7]

just watch how it plays out... things are going to change a lot between now and the draft... most of the "the sky is falling!! My team needs a QB'...is coming from sports reporters trying to find something to stir up. The teams in front of us are not as desperate as the reporters make them out to be.

as for Keim and our scouting department?? I would hope they have a few guys they feel we can win with.
But these QB's have different styles in play... which IMO is exactly why we hired McCoy as OC.
like i said previously any of the top 6 QB's are worth the #15 pick... it might be a slight reach for a couple of them... but those guys wouldnt be on the board when we pick in the second...so rather than playing games and risking trading back, or up in the second...if you like the guy just take him at 15..

while I am cool with Keim trading up to get his guy I also think we have a solid chance where we are...
we dont "Have" to trade up...simply because there is more than just one or two QB's.

If it were just Darnold and Rosen.... then call cleveland and dont let them off the phone until we have the number 1 pick. But it aint.

I think they need to identify their three or four top guys... then as the draft progresses, when the first two are gone start looking at trade options... when only one remains then do what ya gotta do to move up and get him if moving up is required.

what I dont want to see...is a couple QB's coming into the teens...and Keim trades back 2 or 3 spots thinking he can still get his guy while adding a third round pick. because if he does that...then a team like Pittsburgh will trade in front of us and take our guy.

I have the guys I like but honestly I dont care who they get. I just want to see them be proactive, decisive,... decide and make it happen.

I agree mostly with that sentiment - but I could also see a couple of these guys sliding and being available in the 2nd round. It wouldn't surprise me if Mayfield, Allen, and Jackson slipped. Maybe not that far, but some.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Literally only maybe two, and I'd have to think about it for a very long time.

I see only 2 that I would probably give up 2 number ones. Carson Wentz and Deshawn Watson and the jury is still out on both of these two, as it is still very early in the careers.

 

[oaken1]

Last five drafts (first round QBS) which of these would you trade three or even two first round picks for, before the draft and now that, you know what kind of player they are.


2017

Mitch Trubisky

Patrick Mahommes

Deshawn Watson


2016

Jared Goff

Carson Wentz

Paxton Lynch


2015

Jameis Winston

Marcus Mariota


2014

Blake Bortles

Johnny Manzel

Teddy Bridgewater


2013

EJ Manuel

Out of all of those... Carson Wentz was the guy I advocated going after but those top two picks were traded for way early so we never really had a shot....and I still would trade picks for Wentz... Prior to Wentz I think the last guy I wanted to trade the farm for was Cam Newton.

I have to confess, I didnt like Goff... but he has turned out way better than I thought he ever would.
I liked Teddy Bridgewater... but I dont recall ever wanting to trade up for him
I wouldnt have trade up to #1 for deshaun Watson... but I would have been cool with trading up a few slots to make sure we didnt get jumped over for him.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Out of all of those... Carson Wentz was the guy I advocated going after but those top two picks were traded for way early so we never really had a shot....and I still would trade picks for Wentz... Prior to Wentz I think the last guy I wanted to trade the farm for was Cam Newton.

I have to confess, I didnt like Goff... but he has turned out way better than I thought he ever would.
I liked Teddy Bridgewater... but I dont recall ever wanting to trade up for him
I wouldnt have trade up to #1 for deshaun Watson... but I would have been cool with trading up a few slots to make sure we didnt get jumped over for him.

But the question is would you have given up 2 or 3 first round picks for them? For the record I like Goff better than Wentz, but we'll see. My son and I got a little pride on the line for that one.

 

[oaken1]

I agree mostly with that sentiment - but I could also see a couple of these guys sliding and being available in the 2nd round. It wouldn't surprise me if Mayfield, Allen, and Jackson slipped. Maybe not that far, but some.

Yeah... I think Jackson and Rudolph could be had in the second round... but not likely past the 5th or 6th pick in the second round. Same with Allen if Denver does not pick him..
but like I said before... if they want the guy and he is there at 15... just take him and move on.

Thats part of the reason I think the Browns dont go QB in the first... they have Kizer... if they were to sign Smith and then get a guy like Rudolph in the second they are looking pretty good in their QB room.

 

[Solar7]

I see only 2 that I would probably give up 2 number ones. Carson Wentz and Deshawn Watson and the jury is still out on both of these two, as it is still very early in the careers.

The main reason I had doubt in my mind about the choices were the ACL tears.

As of right now I wouldn't give it up for Goff. Gurley was just too spectacular to make me think it's just Goff... for now.

 

[oaken1]

But the question is would you have given up 2 or 3 first round picks for them? For the record I like Goff better than Wentz, but we'll see. My son and I got a little pride on the line for that one.

I would have given up three firsts to get Wentz without hesitation.
would have traded three firsts to get Cam Newton too

 

[Solar7]

Yeah... I think Jackson and Rudolph could be had in the second round... but not likely past the 5th or 6th pick in the second round. Same with Allen if Denver does not pick him..
but like I said before... if they want the guy and he is there at 15... just take him and move on.

Thats part of the reason I think the Browns dont go QB in the first... they have Kizer... if they were to sign Smith and then get a guy like Rudolph in the second they are looking pretty good in their QB room.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. The Browns have been destitute at QB since they came back into the league. This is a very strong draft class. This is their time to use the number one overall pick and draft a true star. And then pick another star three picks later. They've continued to trade back year after year after year - they need true stardom to emerge now, not to mention that they have the money to bring in other veteran stars. Why wouldn't they want their Peyton Manning?

To me, the Kizer situation is like when the Panthers drafted Jimmy Clausen in the 2nd before Cam... you can't give up on an all-time talent because a guy put up slightly decent stats but still didn't win a game.

 

[oaken1]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. The Browns have been destitute at QB since they came back into the league. This is a very strong draft class. This is their time to use the number one overall pick and draft a true star. And then pick another star three picks later. They've continued to trade back year after year after year - they need true stardom to emerge now, not to mention that they have the money to bring in other veteran stars. Why wouldn't they want their Peyton Manning?

To me, the Kizer situation is like when the Panthers drafted Jimmy Clausen in the 2nd before Cam... you can't give up on an all-time talent because a guy put up slightly decent stats but still didn't win a game.

I think the Browns GM wants to keep his job. He brought Alex Smith to KC when he was GM there... with $118mil cap space and the youngest team in the league the smart move for them is to bring in a vet
if they sign Kirk Cousins... they have a 10 year starter surrounded by lots of young players. If they sign Smith they have tested veteran leadership for all those young players... but likely only have a 4 or 5 year starter. The difference between a first round QB and a second round QB really, is how much time they need to develop... Kizer should have never seen the field last season... but if they sign a vet, draft a QB in the second round... they have leadership, mentoring, and time...to go along with the younger guys competing against one another

If they were to draft...say,... Lamar Jackson with the first pick in the second and have him learn behind Smith... in 2 or 3 years Jackson can take over and they never miss a beat with offensive production. Similar to when Rodgers sat behind Favre or young sat behind Montana...on a different scale of course, lol.. but the same concept.

Cleveland has a lot of young talented players but they need a QB to lead them. Veteran leadership will help them to be more competitive faster than a rookie.

If they draft a QB in the top five... there is way too much pressure to get the guy on the field. Because fans want to see the young "superstar" on the field.

and as you have pointed out so many times... picking that QB in the top five has a lot of risk attached to it... when you have $118mil in cap space available you dont have to take that risk if guys like Cousins or Smith can be had.