Would you pay Kyler 45 mil if this is (basically) his peak?

[Stout]

He is worth the price now, even if he doesn't improve at all. Of course we all want to see improvement.

Kyler not improving anymore doesn't equate to the Titanic and I know you know that.

Kyler not improving from now absolutely equates to the Titanic, if he's getting paid a crapton of money. What is he, 0-7, 0-8 in clinching games? And 0-1 in the playoffs with a historically bad loss? IDGAF about his stats. Stats mean nothing. Winning in big games means everything. He can't yet, after three seasons, and folks are ready to throw the bank at him.

Well, we're going to see how it goes. He's going to get his deal, no doubt. I just hope it doesn't reinforce that he's already "good enough" to him.

 

[kerouac9]

I just hope it doesn't reinforce that he's already "good enough" to him.

This is the critical point. The good ones strive to get recognition, big paydays, pub, etc. The great ones are internally motivated to get better because they want to see how great they can be.

Not sure anyone here has the evidence to support where Kyler is now.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Kyler not improving from now absolutely equates to the Titanic, if he's getting paid a crapton of money. What is he, 0-7, 0-8 in clinching games? And 0-1 in the playoffs with a historically bad loss? IDGAF about his stats. Stats mean nothing. Winning in big games means everything. He can't yet, after three seasons, and folks are ready to throw the bank at him.

Well, we're going to see how it goes. He's going to get his deal, no doubt. I just hope it doesn't reinforce that he's already "good enough" to him.

No it doesn't. Kyler not improving is still a top 10 QB. In no shape or form is that the Titanic. I know you expect a lot from Kyler.

This just feels like maybe your emotions are clouding your judgment.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Jake was a bad QB that won one a playoff game. Tebow did too.

Jake was not a bad QB. Jake led the playoff drought Cards to a playoff win against a good Cowboy team in Dallas. Plummer won a playoff game for the Broncos.. multiple playoff appearances which would not have been possible if he was subpar, which he obviously was not
Plummer holds at least two Broncos franchise records, including: passing yards: game (499 on 2004-10-31 ATL and passer rating: playoff season (103.1 in 2004)
Sorry, he might not have been great but 'bad' does not hold up

 

[Jetstream Green]

Lastly, Ryan Lindley was so bad we cannot even consider him a QB, which says a lot if we look at our other QBs lol

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Jake was not a bad QB. Jake led the playoff drought Cards to a playoff win against a good Cowboy team in Dallas. Plummer won a playoff game for the Broncos.. multiple playoff appearances which would not have been possible if he was subpar, which he obviously was not
Plummer holds at least two Broncos franchise records, including: passing yards: game (499 on 2004-10-31 ATL and passer rating: playoff season (103.1 in 2004)
Sorry, he might not have been great but 'bad' does not hold up

I'll just disagree with you. For the most part, the team wont in spite of Jake.

 

[Cardinal88]

FTFY. There's no working with those numbers at this point. Those numbers don't lie.

With a line like ours and teams Bull rushing him, how can you tell? Plus, he brought us back against a very good Packer team where half the fans in our home stadium were routing for the Packers. If Green was on the same page, I’d give him at least a 50/50 chance he makes that catch.

 

[Zalixar]

Again, the situation isn't pay him versus get rid of him. The situation is pay him now or wait and see if he gets better. People going chicken little (not casting that shade at you in particular), claiming we have no choice are simply wrong. We really don't have to pay him now. That's just some folks' preference.

And I can't believe I've referred to others as chicken littles lol

Except it kind of is.

We could end up in a situation a la Dak. It's not going to get cheaper.

At this point you are either keeping him or we aren't. Another year isn't gunna do jack sh*t.

We are betting on his ceiling and if he can take us.

Are you really not convinced? What's another year going to do? The better he is the more expensive he will be if we wait. What's the point in that? We are going to 99% resign him.

So why not extend him now and get the smiles about and dump/trade him later if it doesn't pan out. Waiting is just asking to be bit by an even larger contract.

 

[Stout]

No it doesn't. Kyler not improving is still a top 10 QB. In no shape or form is that the Titanic. I know you expect a lot from Kyler.

This just feels like maybe your emotions are clouding your judgment.

Is KM going 0-fer in clinching and playoff games, in a large sample size, my emotions clouding my judgment. IDGAF about stats. I care about important games. Can he win the big games? The answer thus far is a resounding no. So, to me, if he can't fix that, I also DGAF if he's a top-10 statistical QB. Stats mean nothing; ability to win the big games means everything.

If your counter-argument is that, because he's a top-10 QB he'll eventually win those games, you are saying he will improve.

 

[Stout]

Except it kind of is.

We could end up in a situation a la Dak. It's not going to get cheaper.

At this point you are either keeping him or we aren't. Another year isn't gunna do jack sh*t.

We are betting on his ceiling and if he can take us.

Are you really not convinced? What's another year going to do? The better he is the more expensive he will be if we wait. What's the point in that? We are going to 99% resign him.

So why not extend him now and get the smiles about and dump/trade him later if it doesn't pan out. Waiting is just asking to be bit by an even larger contract.

He's, what, 0-7? 0-8? Something like that in clinching games and the playoffs. That is not a small sample size. He (so far) is an absolute choke artist that puts up good stats. We still don't know if he's screwed his head on right finally. I'd like to know that he's taking the proper approach to the position finally, for him to put those questions to bed. I'd like him to elevate the team around him. I'd like him to actually win a game to get us into the playoffs or even win a playoff game. I'd like him to not panic when there's a pocket, which he did quite a lot when injuries and Covid started hitting our line.

Does he put up great stats? Mostly, yes, although he has yet to put up a 4,000 yard season. Can he be electric and make plays most can't? Absolutely. Has he shown flashes of greatness? He has indeed. Has he put it all together yet? Not even close. That's why THIS season specifically is going to tell us a whole heck of a lot about KM.

He has had plenty of time in the NFL now. It's make or break time. Clearly I'm not convinced he's 100 percent the answer. If he melts down again this season, misses another stretch of games, we would be wise to move on. Which we wouldn't be able to do if we gift him a huge contract.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Stats mean nothing; ability to win the big games means everything.

He has had plenty of time in the NFL now. It's make or break time. Clearly I'm not convinced he's 100 percent the answer. If he melts down again this season, misses another stretch of games, we would be wise to move on. Which we wouldn't be able to do if we gift him a huge contract.

This

 

[Jetstream Green]

Is KM going 0-fer in clinching and playoff games, in a large sample size, my emotions clouding my judgment. IDGAF about stats. I care about important games. Can he win the big games? The answer thus far is a resounding no. So, to me, if he can't fix that, I also DGAF if he's a top-10 statistical QB. Stats mean nothing; ability to win the big games means everything.

If your counter-argument is that, because he's a top-10 QB he'll eventually win those games, you are saying he will improve.

Well, actually you guys are both right. DRC can rightfully say he's a top ten QB without winning the big games because 10 QBs cannot win the top games in the playoffs which is reserved for roughly the top five (the winning QB for the conference championships and a Superbowl is not attainable for 10 QBs in a given season) and Stout is right that it really does not matter if he is not eventually in the top five where being able to win those top games is the primary objective. I am still paying the hobbit, though at the moment he's the Marvin Lewis equivalent at QB

 

[Stout]

Well, actually you guys are both right. DRC can rightfully say he's a top ten QB without winning the big games because 10 QBs cannot win the top games in the playoffs which is reserved for roughly the top five (the winning QB for the conference championships and a Superbowl is not attainable for 10 QBs in a given season) and Stout is right that it really does not matter if he is not eventually in the top five where being able to win those top games is the primary objective. I am still paying the hobbit, though at the moment he's the Marvin Lewis equivalent at QB

Well stated.

 

[DVontel]

He's, what, 0-7? 0-8? Something like that in clinching games and the playoffs. That is not a small sample size. He (so far) is an absolute choke artist that puts up good stats. We still don't know if he's screwed his head on right finally. I'd like to know that he's taking the proper approach to the position finally, for him to put those questions to bed. I'd like him to elevate the team around him. I'd like him to actually win a game to get us into the playoffs or even win a playoff game. I'd like him to not panic when there's a pocket, which he did quite a lot when injuries and Covid started hitting our line.

Does he put up great stats? Mostly, yes, although he has yet to put up a 4,000 yard season. Can he be electric and make plays most can't? Absolutely. Has he shown flashes of greatness? He has indeed. Has he put it all together yet? Not even close. That's why THIS season specifically is going to tell us a whole heck of a lot about KM.

He has had plenty of time in the NFL now. It's make or break time. Clearly I'm not convinced he's 100 percent the answer. If he melts down again this season, misses another stretch of games, we would be wise to move on. Which we wouldn't be able to do if we gift him a huge contract.

Once he signs the new contract, which he will get offered, there won’t be no “make or break time”. That pretty much ended when Keim & Kliff both got their extensions.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Top 10? Not according to many lists, including this one:

Top 10 NFL QBs of 2022: Buccaneers' ageless Tom Brady headlines a group full of ascending young superstars​

Top 10 NFL QBs of 2022: Buccaneers' ageless Tom Brady headlines a group full of ascending young superstars

Assessing the best of the best signal-callers going into the new year

www.cbssports.com

​

1. Tom Brady (Buccaneers)​

2. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs)​

3. Aaron Rodgers (Packers)​

4. Josh Allen (Bills)​

5. Justin Herbert (Chargers)​

6. Joe Burrow (Bengals)​

7. Russell Wilson (Broncos)​

8. Matthew Stafford (Rams)​

9. Lamar Jackson (Ravens)​

10. Dak Prescott (Cowboys)​

​

Murray made the bottom of the same list the year before, but I am sure the late-season collapse and playoff embarrassment helped keep him off of the list this time around.

This year he is listed as part of the "next tier."

Murray is a glowing talent when healthy and in peak form, a rocket-armed QB in a running back's body, but has ended all three of his seasons either hurt or in a slump.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

He's, what, 0-7? 0-8? Something like that in clinching games and the playoffs. That is not a small sample size. He (so far) is an absolute choke artist that puts up good stats. We still don't know if he's screwed his head on right finally. I'd like to know that he's taking the proper approach to the position finally, for him to put those questions to bed. I'd like him to elevate the team around him. I'd like him to actually win a game to get us into the playoffs or even win a playoff game. I'd like him to not panic when there's a pocket, which he did quite a lot when injuries and Covid started hitting our line.

Does he put up great stats? Mostly, yes, although he has yet to put up a 4,000 yard season. Can he be electric and make plays most can't? Absolutely. Has he shown flashes of greatness? He has indeed. Has he put it all together yet? Not even close. That's why THIS season specifically is going to tell us a whole heck of a lot about KM.

He has had plenty of time in the NFL now. It's make or break time. Clearly I'm not convinced he's 100 percent the answer. If he melts down again this season, misses another stretch of games, we would be wise to move on. Which we wouldn't be able to do if we gift him a huge contract.

Exact same thing was said about Stafford until he won the SB this year. 13 years in.

Kyler doesn't get the same level of support, because he is small... or he is introverted... or because he is black, something.

 

[kerouac9]

Top 10? Not according to many lists, including this one:

Top 10 NFL QBs of 2022: Buccaneers' ageless Tom Brady headlines a group full of ascending young superstars​

Top 10 NFL QBs of 2022: Buccaneers' ageless Tom Brady headlines a group full of ascending young superstars

Assessing the best of the best signal-callers going into the new year

www.cbssports.com

​

1. Tom Brady (Buccaneers)​

2. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs)​

3. Aaron Rodgers (Packers)​

4. Josh Allen (Bills)​

5. Justin Herbert (Chargers)​

6. Joe Burrow (Bengals)​

7. Russell Wilson (Broncos)​

8. Matthew Stafford (Rams)​

9. Lamar Jackson (Ravens)​

10. Dak Prescott (Cowboys)​

​

Murray made the bottom of the same list the year before, but I am sure the late-season collapse and playoff embarrassment helped keep him off of the list this time around.

This year he is listed as part of the "next tier."

Murray is a glowing talent when healthy and in peak form, a rocket-armed QB in a running back's body, but has ended all three of his seasons either hurt or in a slump.

That Russell Wilson ranking tho... :eyes:

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Top 10? Not according to many lists, including this one:

Top 10 NFL QBs of 2022: Buccaneers' ageless Tom Brady headlines a group full of ascending young superstars​

Top 10 NFL QBs of 2022: Buccaneers' ageless Tom Brady headlines a group full of ascending young superstars

Assessing the best of the best signal-callers going into the new year

www.cbssports.com

​

1. Tom Brady (Buccaneers)​

2. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs)​

3. Aaron Rodgers (Packers)​

4. Josh Allen (Bills)​

5. Justin Herbert (Chargers)​

6. Joe Burrow (Bengals)​

7. Russell Wilson (Broncos)​

8. Matthew Stafford (Rams)​

9. Lamar Jackson (Ravens)​

10. Dak Prescott (Cowboys)​

​

Murray made the bottom of the same list the year before, but I am sure the late-season collapse and playoff embarrassment helped keep him off of the list this time around.

This year he is listed as part of the "next tier."

Murray is a glowing talent when healthy and in peak form, a rocket-armed QB in a running back's body, but has ended all three of his seasons either hurt or in a slump.

Well, if CBSSports says so.

I mean, he is what, 11 on that list? Splitting hairs?

 

[kerouac9]

Exact same thing was said about Stafford until he won the SB this year. 13 years in.

Kyler doesn't get the same level of support, because he is small... or he is introverted... or because he is black, something.

Kyler doesn't get the same level of support as Matt Stafford did over his first three seasons? Are you serious? Matt Stafford threw for over 5000 yards and 41 TDs while leading the Lions to a 10-6 record and a loss in the wild card around.

What are you talking about, bro?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Kyler doesn't get the same level of support as Matt Stafford did over his first three seasons? Are you serious? Matt Stafford threw for over 5000 yards and 41 TDs while leading the Lions to a 10-6 record and a loss in the wild card around.

What are you talking about, bro?

I'm not talking about his first 3 seasons, I'm talking about his first 12.

 

[Stout]

Kyler doesn't get the same level of support as Matt Stafford did over his first three seasons? Are you serious? Matt Stafford threw for over 5000 yards and 41 TDs while leading the Lions to a 10-6 record and a loss in the wild card around.

What are you talking about, bro?

Well, it's because he's "black, or something"

 

[Stout]

Once he signs the new contract, which he will get offered, there won’t be no “make or break time”. That pretty much ended when Keim & Kliff both got their extensions.

Right, which is why I don't want to give him that new contract yet. I'd rather wait and see the answer to the "make or break" situation this season.

You're right in that this was pretty much put to bed with the signing of those ridiculous extensions. That doesn't make me think it's a particularly good idea, though.

 

[Stout]

I'm not talking about his first 3 seasons, I'm talking about his first 12.

Oh, so we need to see 9 more seasons of KM before we get to judge him? lol Goalposts moved.

 

[Stout]

Bottom line is, the team will extend him this offseason, and I think it's a mistake because it's a year too early for him and we have him under team control. Some on this board agree, many don't, and it doesn't much matter because this regime will get him signed.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Oh, so we need to see 9 more seasons of KM before we get to judge him? lol Goalposts moved.

Of course not.

However, I'd wager that most of the people that feel the way you do now, felt this way from pretty much the beginning. Kyler has gotten the shortest leash of any QB in recent memory.