Would YOU trade????..........

Duckjake

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CardinalLaw said:
Well lets see.

Edgerrin has 1240 + whatever yard he has today on the ground. Plus 225 yards recieving. Faulk has 300 yards total. So yes, I would be crazy and pull off that trade. As for Big for the greates RB to come out of college, I just might be crazy again but yes I would.

FYI In the first 3 years after the trade Faulk produced 6,765 yards of offense and 59 TD's. And considering this is his 12th year in the league you would expect his stats to fall off.

Once again, the Colts did not trade Marshall Faulk for Edgerrin James. They were so unsuccesful with him at RB, despite his phenomenal production, that they used a #1 selection, giving up a Champ Bailey or Torry Holt, to replace him.
 

Russ Smith

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Duckjake said:
FYI In the first 3 years after the trade Faulk produced 6,765 yards of offense and 59 TD's. And considering this is his 12th year in the league you would expect his stats to fall off.

Once again, the Colts did not trade Marshall Faulk for Edgerrin James. They were so unsuccesful with him at RB, despite his phenomenal production, that they used a #1 selection, giving up a Champ Bailey or Torry Holt, to replace him.

They traded him because of his contract. they felt Faulk wanted too much in his next deal, they traded him, and the rams gave him a HUGE deal at the time.
 

Duckjake

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Russ Smith said:
They traded him because of his contract. they felt Faulk wanted too much in his next deal, they traded him, and the rams gave him a HUGE deal at the time.

As the draft approached in the spring of 1999, Jim Mora and Bill Polian considered ways to improve the team. The defense needed difference-makers and depth, but the two most dynamic players available were Ricky Williams and Edgerrin James—a pair of running backs viewed as potential game-breakers. With the fourth pick, Mora and Polian figured one of the runners would still be on the board. They began talking to teams about Marshall. By dealing him, the duo thought they could pick up help on defense.

Some argue that the Colts had laid the groundwork months earlier to trade Marshall. Never one to make waves, Marshall was benched late in the 1998 campaign against the Seahawks after a misunderstanding over a team meeting. By this time, Indianapolis was publicly questioning its star’s commitment to the club. His agent, Rocky Arceneaux, had approached management about renegotiating his contract. The incident in Seattle helped cast doubt over his attitude. While rumors that Marshall was a problem in the locker room wouldn’t enhance his trade value, they certainly would ease fan backlash when he was shipped away. And so magically the rumors found their way into the papers.

Two days before the draft, Polian struck a deal with the Rams. Marshall was sent to St. Louis for picks in the 2nd and 5th rounds, numbers 36 and 138 overall. The Colts then took James with their top selection.

The trade to St. Louis took Marshall by surprise. But he eventually viewed the move as a fresh start for his career, and embraced his new surroundings. He liked the personnel, the staff, and the game plan. In August, Marshall signed a seven-year deal worth just over $45 million.

 

Russ Smith

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Duckjake said:
Two days before the draft, Polian struck a deal with the Rams. Marshall was sent to St. Louis for picks in the 2nd and 5th rounds, numbers 36 and 138 overall. The Colts then took James with their top selection.

The trade to St. Louis took Marshall by surprise. But he eventually viewed the move as a fresh start for his career, and embraced his new surroundings. He liked the personnel, the staff, and the game plan. In August, Marshall signed a seven-year deal worth just over $45 million.


See, Faulk got a huge deal, and the Colts really didn't get much with those picks IIRC. Getting James was a great move for them but they gave Faulk away too cheaply because of his contract. They made it too obvious why they wanted to deal him, so they couldn't get market value.
 

Duckjake

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Russ Smith said:
See, Faulk got a huge deal, and the Colts really didn't get much with those picks IIRC. Getting James was a great move for them but they gave Faulk away too cheaply because of his contract. They made it too obvious why they wanted to deal him, so they couldn't get market value.

The website where I got that information has some interesting stuff.

www.Jockbio.com.

Looks like contract, need for defensive help, Ricky Williams and James available in the draft, and wrongly perceived attitude problems all contributed to the Faulk deal.

Colts took Mike Peterson, not bad, although he now plays for the Jags, and Brad Scioli from Ridgemont High, with the picks they got from the Rams.
 

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CardinalLaw said:
Cough, Boldin, Cough.:thumbup:

Boldin has put up good numbers but he has not changed the fortunes of the Cardinals like those guys I mentioned previously did for their teams. The Cards have a losing record with or without Boldin. This team needs the piece of the puzzle that makes THE DIFFERENCE.
 
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dreamcastrocks

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I think that we would have to throw in Arrington into that trade to make it even close for Houston to think about it.

Houston trades
#1 pick overall

Arizona trades
Davis
Arrington
#7 - #10 pick in the draft.
 

john h

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BigRedMO said:
If a team had to pick a year to finish with the worst record in football there are certain years when it is worth it to the organization. There are years when a player comes out with the ability to completely change the poor fortunes of a football team. Lawrence Taylor when he joined the Giants turned around a team that was as pathetic as the Cardinals are now. I remember that game where the Giants were leading the Eagles with seconds left and handed the ball off instead of kneeling down resulting in them losing to the Eagles in a way nobody loses. The Giants were as hapless as the Cards are now. I realize the Giants had more than Taylor but I think he was the key. A guy like Elway, Montana, Favre, Campbell, Dickerson, Marino, Namath, Taylor or Singletary can change the fortunes of an organization. I realize Favre was not a number one pick. The point is to name guys who revolutionized their teams. I really think Bush is that kind of guy.

By the way CBS was running a poll of which rookie has made the most impact this year. Rolle was not among the 5 choices listed. There is never a Cardinal player listed in those polls of who is the best or makes the biggest difference.

I would agree that Bush appears to be one of those guys who can turn a team around. However, he still has to do it. If I were drafting #1 I would take him. Even as much as we need a QB of the future. I have vaciliated on this all year but Bush has convinced me he is the best college RB I have ever seen. My only concern is he is not very big and does not have a big frame. Can he withstand the hits in the NFL? Prior to Bush the guy who I thought had the best chance of making a big difference was Earl Campbell. He was a monster in college and although he was very good in the pros he was not as good as some of the other great RB's over the long haul. We cannot get Bush so whoever we do get should be at least 225 lbs or more. Our RB's are just not the smash mouth guys you need for the 2-3 yds. Did any of you see the games yesterday where one team took their 320 lb defensive lineman and made him the lead blocker on a play down on the goal line. He in fact knocked a defender on his butt and the runner scored. I like the idea that a team can be innovative like taking a Refrigerator Perry and running him for 2-3 yds at the goal line. How could you keep a guy like Big from not gaining 2 yds. With a 5 yd running start and 360 lbs plus hitting the line someone is going to move as you just could not stop that size force in its tracks. Perhaps he could not take a handoff. I do not know but I would sure like to see it just once.
 

joeshmo

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BigRedMO said:
Boldin has put up good numbers but he has not changed the fortunes of the Cardinals like those guys I mentioned previously did for their teams. The Cards have a losing record with or without Boldin. This team needs the piece of the puzzle that makes THE DIFFERENCE.

I think you missed his point,

He was talking more about your Poll arguement, when he refered to Boldin.
 

dreamcastrocks

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john h said:
I would agree that Bush appears to be one of those guys who can turn a team around. However, he still has to do it. If I were drafting #1 I would take him. Even as much as we need a QB of the future. I have vaciliated on this all year but Bush has convinced me he is the best college RB I have ever seen. My only concern is he is not very big and does not have a big frame. Can he withstand the hits in the NFL? Prior to Bush the guy who I thought had the best chance of making a big difference was Earl Campbell. He was a monster in college and although he was very good in the pros he was not as good as some of the other great RB's over the long haul. We cannot get Bush so whoever we do get should be at least 225 lbs or more. Our RB's are just not the smash mouth guys you need for the 2-3 yds. Did any of you see the games yesterday where one team took their 320 lb defensive lineman and made him the lead blocker on a play down on the goal line. He in fact knocked a defender on his butt and the runner scored. I like the idea that a team can be innovative like taking a Refrigerator Perry and running him for 2-3 yds at the goal line. How could you keep a guy like Big from not gaining 2 yds. With a 5 yd running start and 360 lbs plus hitting the line someone is going to move as you just could not stop that size force in its tracks. Perhaps he could not take a handoff. I do not know but I would sure like to see it just once.

LT is about the same size as Bush and LT stiffarmed Renoldo Hill so hard that he literally flew in the air. If he is anything like Faulk and LT like experts are claiming, I don't care how small he is.

Wasn't it SF that brought in their defensive lineman yesterday?
 

Russ Smith

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dreamcastrocks said:
I think that we would have to throw in Arrington into that trade to make it even close for Houston to think about it.

Houston trades
#1 pick overall

Arizona trades
Davis
Arrington
#7 - #10 pick in the draft.

Trade our starting LT, first round pick and probable starting RB for Bush?

Man that's tough, he's a great player and he replaces Arrington, but then you have no first round pick to replace Davis at LT.
 

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john h said:
I like the idea that a team can be innovative like taking a Refrigerator Perry and running him for 2-3 yds at the goal line.

Sorry but that was not an innovative play. That was a play for the Fans nothing more. The Bears were absolutely destroying the team in the super bowl, after the 2nd half they were just toying with them, including taking a fan favorite and letting him run the ball for a TD in the 4th quarter of a blow out. If the game was on the line Walter would without a doubt be getting the ball instead of Perry. No innovation at all, just messing around. They said as much in interviews after the game.
 

john h

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BigRedMO said:
Boldin has put up good numbers but he has not changed the fortunes of the Cardinals like those guys I mentioned previously did for their teams. The Cards have a losing record with or without Boldin. This team needs the piece of the puzzle that makes THE DIFFERENCE.

It is rare that one person can make you go from last place to a contender in one year. Only certain positions can be real difference makers and even then the rest of the team has to be decent at worst. One OL is not going to put any team over the top. A QB more than anyone can be a difference maker. If you have a marginal or poor QB it is unlikely you will go far even if you have good players around you. But add a very good QB to the same team and they might immediately be a contender. We have had so many needs there is no one guy that will put us over the top. We are not that close. I could list our needs but you all know them anyway. There are some teams that are perhaps just a QB or RB away from the playoffs. If we got lucky in FA and the draft we might make a run next year. We have the receivers, Warner can still get it done, a pro bowl kicker and a few good DB's and guys on Defense. We still do not know how good JJ is as we have a poor OL. In any event we still need a big RB and a blocking/receiving TE. It will be very interesting to see who DG and company think we need? I do not have a clue.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Russ Smith said:
Trade our starting LT, first round pick and probable starting RB for Bush?

Man that's tough, he's a great player and he replaces Arrington, but then you have no first round pick to replace Davis at LT.

I agree that it is rough, and makes you think about it much more. This is the type of deal that Houston will need to trade this pick IMO. Unless someone will practially trade their entire 2006 draft for the pick.
 

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Russ Smith said:
Trade our starting LT, first round pick and probable starting RB for Bush?

Man that's tough, he's a great player and he replaces Arrington, but then you have no first round pick to replace Davis at LT.

Too many very good RBs in this years draft to blow the bank on Bush.

Kenny Irons.
Laurence Maroney
DeAngelo Williams
Michael Bush
 

dreamcastrocks

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wallyburger said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ Smith
Trade our starting LT, first round pick and probable starting RB for Bush?

Man that's tough, he's a great player and he replaces Arrington, but then you have no first round pick to replace Davis at LT.



Too many very good RBs in this years draft to blow the bank on Bush.

Kenny Irons.
Laurence Maroney
DeAngelo Williams
Michael Bush

I am not even saying that the trade that I suggested, I would do. I am suggesting that Houston will have to have a trade of that caliber in order to trade the #1 pick.

I am for trading up the #3 spot and grabbing Furguson. That would be my dream scenerio. Swap 1st round picks and trade our 3rd round pick.
 

ARZCardinals

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no, Davis with all his troubles is still a good olineman.

He hasn't given up many sacks, just basic faults of penalties that can be corrected.

This is his first year with the problem of false starts.

I'll keep Davis...just don't expect him to be the leader of the pack...just another solid player.
 

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joeshmo said:
I think you missed his point,

He was talking more about your Poll arguement, when he refered to Boldin.

I think the poll was trying to ask which rookie is making the biggest difference for his team. If a team picks in the top 6-7 spots like the Cards I would like to see that player listed in the poll as one of the choices. If that player is not a choice I dont think the team got the value of its pick. Even had Rolle not been injured I dont think he would have made that list. I did not see a top 6-7 player drafted impact from him.

I do feel embarrassesed that I forgot Boldin's impact as a rookie. He definitely has been worth the pick. I am disappointed in Rolle. I have never been sold on drafing CBs number one. I just dont think the position has enough impact to justify it. I think good CBs can be aquired lower in the draft or through free agency. This is just a rule of thumb for me and is not 100% accurate. After all Roger Wehrli was picked #1 and definitely was a huge asset to the Cards for over 10 years. However, I cant recall who they passed on to get Wehrli.
 

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"..And in this corner.."

We donut need to get rid of LD; just move him to OG.. Here I think he would be devastating!! Coaches say the biggest reasons Tackles Fail when moved to Guard is they donut have enough strength.. Not a problem with LD..
 

Duckjake

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BigRedMO said:
I think the poll was trying to ask which rookie is making the biggest difference for his team. If a team picks in the top 6-7 spots like the Cards I would like to see that player listed in the poll as one of the choices. If that player is not a choice I dont think the team got the value of its pick. Even had Rolle not been injured I dont think he would have made that list. I did not see a top 6-7 player drafted impact from him.

I do feel embarrassesed that I forgot Boldin's impact as a rookie. He definitely has been worth the pick. I am disappointed in Rolle. I have never been sold on drafing CBs number one. I just dont think the position has enough impact to justify it. I think good CBs can be aquired lower in the draft or through free agency. This is just a rule of thumb for me and is not 100% accurate. After all Roger Wehrli was picked #1 and definitely was a huge asset to the Cards for over 10 years. However, I cant recall who they passed on to get Wehrli.[/QUOTE]

Nobody who was that much better than Wehrli. The Cards drafted 19th out of 26. After Wehrli the Cowboys took Calvin Hill. The Colts took Eddie Hinton.
Ted Hendricks went early in the 2nd.

As for CB's the Bears got Nathan Vasher in the 4th round.

But that was because Texas players were dropping in value for no other reason than UT couldn't beat OU and NFL personnel people bought into the rumor that Vasher had a severe back problem.

Amazing some of the dumb things NFL teams do on draft day.
 
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