WOW, 11 AM presser, reporters come out firing

[TJ]

Could it be Wiz has been told by ownership he will be the HC in 2013 because of the injuries, but he's got to find a QB? I can't possibly think of another reason why he would tank yesterday's game by continuing to play Lindley? Maybe Skelton is his new Leinart, a guy he doesn't believe in.

I thought about that today and believe Whiz has a vote of confidence from management that he'll be back next season.


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[Cbus cardsfan]

A friend of mine, well more of an acquaintance, writes for the Columbus Dispatch. You ought to hear him talk about press conferences and trying to interview Jim Tressel. Talk about an act of futility. Which just goes to show that reporters are pretty much at the mercy of the HC.

 

[Buckybird]

I thought about that today and believe Whiz has a vote of confidence from management that he'll be back next season.


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The decisions he's made the last few weeks has to make fans with any brain think about this. No coach imaginable leaves Lindley in that game yesterday!!! Omg can you imagine what happens if he's back & Hortons leaves? I'm thinking the UoP Stadium will be burned to the ground.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, then I think it is quite telling that the press shot their mortar fire at Whiz this morning.

Why care about getting angry someone who won't be here in 2013 ?

Plus there is no doubt, Whiz has brought this upon himself.

Because it's not just that coach it's the organization. Killion was persona non grata for years after that guy moved on.

I didn't listen to the whole thing today but what I did hear I didn't hear anybody really going off on him.

Killion really did, essentially calling the coach a Liar, I think it was Alex Smith related don't even recall anymore.

If a reporter had sat there today and said why are you really not playing John Skelton, they wouldn't have gotten a straight answer. So over the years they learn don't ask the question.

 

[conraddobler]

The sad thing is ownership will eat the last year of his contract if he is fired.

There's little if any real hope that I have that things have changed enough in Cardinal land that we'd even contemplate doing this.

The safe and easy play is to chalk this season up to injuries as sad as that excuse is and let him have a lame duck last year live or die season, it's done around here more than in most other places.

A lame duck season final year of the contract is just a bad way to do business because the HC is hamstrung by it, the team goes down the same road another year and in this case Horton could fly off leaving us with a pile of rubble for next year.

That's why I'd fire him just to let the new guy get started one year early, if the new guy wants Horton then he should get that option to make that call.

 

[Totally_Red]

The decisions he's made the last few weeks has to make fans with any brain think about this. No coach imaginable leaves Lindley in that game yesterday!!! Omg can you imagine what happens if he's back & Hortons leaves? I'm thinking the UoP Stadium will be burned to the ground.

Even a doofus like Rex Ryan was smart enough to replace Mark Sanchez with an unproven 7th round draft choice. There are probably 27 or 28 NFL coaches who would have pulled Lindley in the second half IMO. The other 2 or 3 will be unemployed on December 31 with the possible exception of Ken Whisenhunt.

 

[TJ]

The decisions he's made the last few weeks has to make fans with any brain think about this. No coach imaginable leaves Lindley in that game yesterday!!! Omg can you imagine what happens if he's back & Hortons leaves? I'm thinking the UoP Stadium will be burned to the ground.

That's why if you keep Whiz you fire Grimm, promote Horton to Asst HC and give him a $1 mil raise. Haley got a ton of HC talk before 2008 and the team gave him $1 mil to stay.


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[conraddobler]

Because it's not just that coach it's the organization. Killion was persona non grata for years after that guy moved on.

I didn't listen to the whole thing today but what I did hear I didn't hear anybody really going off on him.

Killion really did, essentially calling the coach a Liar, I think it was Alex Smith related don't even recall anymore.

If a reporter had sat there today and said why are you really not playing John Skelton, they wouldn't have gotten a straight answer. So over the years they learn don't ask the question.

You don't really need to ask the questions that will get a canned response the response itself is worthless.

So the coach refuses to answer, you can write that into your story, I asked him if he was a lying SOB and he had no answer.

I think there's a way you could do it but you'd have to be willing to just shout out the questions it wouldn't take long to know they'd never call on you willingly.

Gotta have the stones to just blurt them out I guess and mow over people, it's the only way you could consistently ask what you wanted to ask, the coach not answering wouldn't mean much one way or the other your idea would get through.

 

[kerouac9]

Because it's not just that coach it's the organization. Killion was persona non grata for years after that guy moved on.

I didn't listen to the whole thing today but what I did hear I didn't hear anybody really going off on him.

Killion really did, essentially calling the coach a Liar, I think it was Alex Smith related don't even recall anymore.

If a reporter had sat there today and said why are you really not playing John Skelton, they wouldn't have gotten a straight answer. So over the years they learn don't ask the question.

Yup. That's the deal. If you've ever fired off an angry tweet to Somers, you'll likely get the response, "Those questions are being asked, you just don't like the answer." That's not really the case in the questions that I'M asking Somers, but that's the point. Somers can't push Whis into giving us the quote we want ("I don't know anything about QBs"), and the mindset of the NFL QB is going to be solution-oriented and forward-looking.

It's frustrating to the fans, but the meaning of "media" is "connection."

 

[kerouac9]

That's why if you keep Whiz you fire Grimm, promote Horton to Asst HC and give him a $1 mil raise. Haley got a ton of HC talk before 2008 and the team gave him $1 mil to stay.


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Giving Horton a new title isn't going to prevent another team from signing him as a head coach. If you give him a big raise, it might prevent him from leaving for less money. But you can't hold him here if someone's going to give him a head coaching job.

 

[conraddobler]

Yup. That's the deal. If you've ever fired off an angry tweet to Somers, you'll likely get the response, "Those questions are being asked, you just don't like the answer." That's not really the case in the questions that I'M asking Somers, but that's the point. Somers can't push Whis into giving us the quote we want ("I don't know anything about QBs"), and the mindset of the NFL QB is going to be solution-oriented and forward-looking.

It's frustrating to the fans, but the meaning of "media" is "connection."

The media's job is to cover things, quotes from head coaches are useless, you could cover a guy without having any connection to him, you just won't get the juicy stuff without the connection ie what's going on behind closed doors that is later leaked to the favored ones.

I'd argue it's not really worth that in the first place that viewers or readers would appreciate a distinct viewpoint and are smart enough to know a coach is more than likely not going to own up to their part of the mess.

I already know what's likely going on just watching what goes on, what I'd like a reporter to do is possibly provide a bit of perspective for me that I don't have, I guess that's hard to do if everyone hates you and would never talk to you but there is an art to it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think it is awesome how "wide receivers" would somehow "not run their routes"

How did such a collective effort take place? Did no one go to them at some point and tell them to start running routes? Why did they refuse?

and even better question is if these guys still don't understand what they're doing on the field running routes, at what are the people TEACHING them responsible?

 

[kerouac9]

The media's job is to cover things, quotes from head coaches are useless, you could cover a guy without having any connection to him, you just won't get the juicy stuff without the connection ie what's going on behind closed doors that is later leaked to the favored ones.

I'd argue it's not really worth that in the first place that viewers or readers would appreciate a distinct viewpoint and are smart enough to know a coach is more than likely not going to own up to their part of the mess.

I already know what's likely going on just watching what goes on, what I'd like a reporter to do is possibly provide a bit of perspective for me that I don't have, I guess that's hard to do if everyone hates you and would never talk to you but there is an art to it.

That's the difference between a columnist (like Bickley) and a beat reporter (like Somers). Don't give the beat reporters grief because they're not doing someone else's job.

 

[Russ Smith]

You don't really need to ask the questions that will get a canned response the response itself is worthless.

So the coach refuses to answer, you can write that into your story, I asked him if he was a lying SOB and he had no answer.

I think there's a way you could do it but you'd have to be willing to just shout out the questions it wouldn't take long to know they'd never call on you willingly.

Gotta have the stones to just blurt them out I guess and mow over people, it's the only way you could consistently ask what you wanted to ask, the coach not answering wouldn't mean much one way or the other your idea would get through.

Sure but their job is to write a story, not ask questions that won't get answered and then speculate.

UCLA has the same issue wtih Ben howland right now, people on UCLA boards are always asking why don't you ask him this or that. The answer is always the same, we know he won't answer it, we ask him that off the record and can't get an answer so why would we ask him that on the record?

There is nothing in the "rules" that compels an NFL coach to answer a question honestly. If they don't want to, they won't.

When a guy says you don't know what's going on behind the scenes he's likely hinting that there is stuff going on behind the scenes that if you knew, would help you to understand. But my job is to coach the team, not help you to understand.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

When a guy says you don't know what's going on behind the scenes he's likely hinting that there is stuff going on behind the scenes that if you knew, would help you to understand.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

It was at that point I yelled at my computer because no one asked the follow up questions.

 

[desertdawg]

I hope the reporters/writers/ read this thread, some real good stuff in here. Is it worth it messing up your contacts and job asking a question that won't be answered? I think the answer is no. But if any of them did, they'd have a new fan/follower right here in dawgydawg.

Why didn't you really put Skelton in? Have you already been told you will be here next year? Are the receivers giving up? How could you believe so much in Skelton at the beginning of the year...and now you go with Lindley? Do you think early round QBs have too much ego? Would you fire you?

 

[Russ Smith]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

It was at that point I yelled at my computer because no one asked the follow up questions.

Because they know he's not going to answer it though that's my point. What he's saying is you don't have enough information to judge my decisions, and I'm not required to give you that information.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Because they know he's not going to answer it though that's my point. What he's saying is you don't have enough information to judge my decisions, and I'm not required to give you that information.

What this state needs is a cranky reporter who is beloved by his readership. A Studs Terkel type.

Are there any independent bloggers in the Cardinals pressers?

 

[kerouac9]

What this state needs is a cranky reporter who is beloved by his readership. A Studs Terkel type.

Are there any independent bloggers in the Cardinals pressers?

Nope--although it's difficult to think of a local sports blog who would have the juice to get in.

In the waning months of the Dave McGinnis era, the former owner of this site (Jim "Skkorpion" Skane) and a moderator (nidan) got practice passes from the team. It was a real treat for them--they talked regularly to Mac and Graves.

Then Dennis Green came in and the Arizona Cardinals started to become a professional football operation.

 

[Darkside]

Fans are kind of fickle when it comes to questioning the coaches and players. We pretend to want some candor, but we really don't because when it's offered we're like OMG, what a *******. You want honesty? Denny Green was totally being honest with his "Crown their ass, they are who we thought they were," rant. That was real. People still laugh a decade later. Same thing with Jim Morra's "Playoffs?" rant. That wasn't even the best part of what he said, but it's all anyone remembers. Makes people laugh, but it was real--and the candid part prior to that soundbite was him talking about his teams 5 turnovers (4 INT's, does that sound familiar?) and how bad his team sucked. Didn't matter.

You can go down the list of candid things players or coaches say and we crucify them every single time. Derek Anderson saying the game is important to him...we still laugh about that. Leinart being unhappy about losing his job (is he supposed to suck it up and pretend to like being a sucker, like Alex Freaking Smith, who by the way just got benched again). Players saying they didn't know a game could end in a tie. Coaches saying they mishandled a two-minute situation, etc etc on and on.

No, we say we want him/them to be candid but we don't really, we just want more fodder to crucify them with. That's the bottom line. It's a wonder they say anything at all. I'd probably go up there and say, "Good afternoon. Go screw yourselves, thanks."

 

[Shane]

Fans are kind of fickle when it comes to questioning the coaches and players. We pretend to want some candor, but we really don't because when it's offered we're like OMG, what a *******. You want honesty? Denny Green was totally being honest with his "Crown their ass, they are who we thought they were," rant. That was real. People still laugh a decade later. Same thing with Jim Morra's "Playoffs?" rant. That wasn't even the best part of what he said, but it's all anyone remembers. Makes people laugh, but it was real--and the candid part prior to that soundbite was him talking about his teams 5 turnovers (4 INT's, does that sound familiar?) and how bad his team sucked. Didn't matter.

You can go down the list of candid things players or coaches say and we crucify them every single time. Derek Anderson saying the game is important to him...we still laugh about that. Leinart being unhappy about losing his job (is he supposed to suck it up and pretend to like being a sucker, like Alex Freaking Smith, who by the way just got benched again). Players saying they didn't know a game could end in a tie. Coaches saying they mishandled a two-minute situation, etc etc on and on.

No, we say we want him/them to be candid but we don't really, we just want more fodder to crucify them with. That's the bottom line. It's a wonder they say anything at all. I'd probably go up there and say, "Good afternoon. Go screw yourselves, thanks."

Great post and 100% correct

 

[Stout]

I thought about that today and believe Whiz has a vote of confidence from management that he'll be back next season.


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That would make them the dumbest management team in the history of sports. You don't give a coach in a CURRENT 8-game slide a vote of confidence, after he's had major losing streaks in the past two seasons. Unless it's the 'here's your vote of confidence...you'll be fired tomorrow' routine.

I mean, if we end up 4-12, NO ONE can advocate bringing him back.

 

[Darkside]

I actually think it could possibly be the opposite of what people speculate: that Whis (and management) know he won't be here next year, and he's starting Lindley to see what he's got, since we already know with Kolb and Skelton (and the season is toast anyway). Think or say what you want about Whis, but he's got integrity and that would be the right thing to do. It's far more likely that Whis and everyone above him know he's gone after the season.

 

[Mitch]

I actually think it could possibly be the opposite of what people speculate: that Whis (and management) know he won't be here next year, and he's starting Lindley to see what he's got, since we already know with Kolb and Skelton (and the season is toast anyway). Think or say what you want about Whis, but he's got integrity and that would be the right thing to do. It's far more likely that Whis and everyone above him know he's gone after the season.

First of all, your earlier post about fans laughing at what coaches and players say was an all-time classic! Great stuff, Darkside!

My question about your thoughts here is whether the Bidwills have ever moved that fast on any decision they make.

If I had my guess, they are asking Horton what plan he would have for the offense if he was promoted to HC.

And that, like the QB situation, no decision has been made or will be made until the season is played out.

It makes little sense to fire Whisenhunt now because Horton would be stuck with Whisenhunt's sycophant, equally inept offensive coaches.

And it wouldn't be classy.

The only offensive assistant who might be able to grab a hold of the reins in a 4 game interim is WRC Frank Reich---which I think would be very interesting to see, seeing as he's been with Peyton Manning the past several years and has seen how efficient offenses are run.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

That would make them the dumbest management team in the history of sports. You don't give a coach in a CURRENT 8-game slide a vote of confidence, after he's had major losing streaks in the past two seasons. Unless it's the 'here's your vote of confidence...you'll be fired tomorrow' routine.

I mean, if we end up 4-12, NO ONE can advocate bringing him back.

I don't think anyone has ever argued otherwise.