Wow. What Joe Thomas said.

[Solar7]

Would you consider kapernick mobile?

100%.

You don't have to run in circles in the backfield waiting for something to develop like Jake Plummer or Russell Wilson to be considered "mobile."

Cam Newton is technically less "elusive," but is by far the best at the game in a designed run. Kaepernick was very solid at the RPO because of his mobility.

 

[blindseyed]

With our line I see a lot of holding penalties

 

[CFLredzoned]

You guys are arguing about two completely different things. One is a designed play that Joe Thomas references:

"playing a wide zone scheme with play action and a lot of boot leg gets the defense running horizontally which buys you 2 or 3 seconds before the defense actually transitions into their pass rush."

In that case, yes, the play design buys the OL extra time. What others are talking about is a traditional pass play that becomes a broken play. In that case, the DL is rushing straight forward right off the bat. Then the QB scrambles one way, the OL doesn't know which way, and it's difficult to hold the block against a DL that's already pinned his ears back.

So the correct answer is both. It's easier and more difficult to block for a mobile QB.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Amazing how some talked bad on JT one, if not the best to ever play LT, yet from your phone and your coach you know better...ignorance must be bliss

 

[WildBB]

You guys are arguing about two completely different things. One is a designed play that Joe Thomas references:

"playing a wide zone scheme with play action and a lot of boot leg gets the defense running horizontally which buys you 2 or 3 seconds before the defense actually transitions into their pass rush."

In that case, yes, the play design buys the OL extra time. What others are talking about is a traditional pass play that becomes a broken play. In that case, the DL is rushing straight forward right off the bat. Then the QB scrambles one way, the OL doesn't know which way, and it's difficult to hold the block against a DL that's already pinned his ears back.

So the correct answer is both. It's easier and more difficult to block for a mobile QB.

While it may be more difficult to sustain a block when a QB scrambles, The QB has already picked his opening or alley to buy more time or take off. The QB sees an opening, is breaking towards or beyond the LoS already in most cases, leaving DL's behind or throwing downfield. OL can adjust on the fly if time permits, but it's the QB taking control at that point with his own skillset largely. It can lead to big converts and plays downfield as the D has to adjust to extended coverages and accountabilities which todays secondaries are very susceptible. We'll see more + big plays for sure.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Thanks.

Did the Cardinal's first draft choice provoke much of a reaction from you?

For example, were you like, "whew, I'm glad they didn't draft Bosa!"?

Not really.

A QB can always be more impactful as far as a single player.

Typically any team picking in the top 5 has more than a single player need, unless there are uncommon circumstances

I think the Niners are happy because they feel they have the uncommon circumstances, that they have their QB and they aren't a bad team. So they get to add a top flight prospect.

I don't know if I agree them, but I get it.

If the cards grabbed boss, Williams, etc you can think that they had a good player, but it's just a player and you can offset that a bit with scheme. There are a lot of teams that throw at least one tough defensive matchup out there each week.

A QB can provide more potential lift or more potential bust

There honestly wasn't much chatter on Murray beyond he was fun in college. Kind of the opposite of the thousand threads here. Really kind of a will be interesting to watch, but not a lock it anything.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Not really.

A QB can always be more impactful as far as a single player.

Typically any team picking in the top 5 has more than a single player need, unless there are uncommon circumstances

I think the Niners are happy because they feel they have the uncommon circumstances, that they have their QB and they aren't a bad team. So they get to add a top flight prospect.

I don't know if I agree them, but I get it.

If the cards grabbed boss, Williams, etc you can think that they had a good player, but it's just a player and you can offset that a bit with scheme. There are a lot of teams that throw at least one tough defensive matchup out there each week.

A QB can provide more potential lift or more potential bust

There honestly wasn't much chatter on Murray beyond he was fun in college. Kind of the opposite of the thousand threads here. Really kind of a will be interesting to watch, but not a lock it anything.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[Cardiac]

Amazing how some talked bad on JT one, if not the best to ever play LT, yet from your phone and your coach you know better...ignorance must be bliss

bim

couch

 

[THESMEL]

They will catch Murray and punish him in the nfcw- he seems a little thicker than before - weightroom did him well - many backs his size hold up to punishment - it’s pretty much up to his toughness - he will elude some - but he will be smushed consistently- ain’t no way around that - in the pocket and open field and maybe in 2nd level traffic - more than some seem to expect. They will play tape - they will be ready to contain him. He has to outperform them every play in this air red offense - just like I complained about under Whiz and BA - my hope is alive - but expect him to shatter at some point in the nfl marathon season. I don’t think every scout for 50 years was wrong- but I root for the unicorns

 

[slanidrac16]

If I had a rifle and was shooting at targets set up on a fence I might do pretty good at it.

Put me on a sleet shooting range, not so good. Standard qb= Still targets, mobile qb = skeet shooting.

I would venture to say if you asked defensive players what type of qb they’d rather face, I’m guessing a pocket passer.

 

[kerouac9]

If I had a rifle and was shooting at targets set up on a fence I might do pretty good at it.

Put me on a sleet shooting range, not so good. Standard qb= Still targets, mobile qb = skeet shooting.

I would venture to say if you asked defensive players what type of qb they’d rather face, I’m guessing a pocket passer.

Pretty sure defensive players would rather face Marcus Mariota than Tom Brady.

 

[slanidrac16]

Pretty sure defensive players would rather face Marcus Mariota than Tom Brady.

Lol apples and oranges there. How about Dalton or Wilson? Flacco or Mahomes?

 

[kerouac9]

Lol apples and oranges there. How about Dalton or Wilson? Flacco or Mahomes?

Wait--why? How many Super Bowls has Mahomes won? Because I can tell you how many Flacco has won.

Do you think defenses would rather face Brady or Wilson? Do you think it's easier to block for Wilson or Brady?

Russell Wilson is probably the most disciplined dual threat QB in the NFL and Seattle allowed ONE FEWER sack than we did last year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Wait--why? How many Super Bowls has Mahomes won? Because I can tell you how many Flacco has won.

Do you think defenses would rather face Brady or Wilson? Do you think it's easier to block for Wilson or Brady?

Russell Wilson is probably the most disciplined dual threat QB in the NFL and Seattle allowed ONE FEWER sack than we did last year.

I agree, dual threat QBs tend to get sacked more.

They "why" is important though. Is it because they attempt to extend plays more, leading to more sacks but also completions where pocket passers would throw the ball in the dirt? Or is it because teams with dual threat QBs tend to devalue the offensive line?

IMO it's a bit of both. The Seahawks, early on, tended to believe they could get by with later picks (the Whisenhunt strategy) but have thrown more at offensive line as it became more apparent that Wilson was important to their success.

I also don't think there is more of a correlation of dual threat QBs getting hurt in the NFL. Pocket passers get hurt too.

 

[slanidrac16]

Wait--why? How many Super Bowls has Mahomes won? Because I can tell you how many Flacco has won.

Do you think defenses would rather face Brady or Wilson? Do you think it's easier to block for Wilson or Brady?

Russell Wilson is probably the most disciplined dual threat QB in the NFL and Seattle allowed ONE FEWER sack than we did last year.

I think most would rather go against Jesus than Brady. Lol. IMHO I just think a mobile qb is harder to defend.

 

[THESMEL]

I think most would rather go against Jesus than Brady. Lol. IMHO I just think a mobile qb is harder to defend.

Not dick Butkus he wants to blind since them in the open field and rip either way with both hands

 

[Jetstream Green]

Oklahoma had a great college OL, but I find it hard to believe that their whole line is pro caliber. Sure, I think they have maybe two on that group who will be NFL caliber but though they helped Murray... I think having a mobile QB operating in that offense made them look better than they are

 

[kerouac9]

Oklahoma had a great college OL, but I find it hard to believe that their whole line is pro caliber. Sure, I think they have maybe two on that group who will be NFL caliber but though they helped Murray... I think having a mobile QB operating in that offense made them look better than they are

They had 4 OL drafted in the first 4 rounds of the draft.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Oklahoma had a great college OL, but I find it hard to believe that their whole line is pro caliber. Sure, I think they have maybe two on that group who will be NFL caliber but though they helped Murray... I think having a mobile QB operating in that offense made them look better than they are

In 2018, OU's line was at least very good, and most would consider it great.

Did this fact contribute to Murray's other-worldly 2018 performance? Without question.

Will not having a dominant line in front him in 2019 negatively affect KM's performance this year? Also, without question.

However, we do not need Murray to post a passer rating of 199, and run for 1000 yards, like he did in 2018. If he is just 50% as effective/productive in 2019, as he was in 2018, then the pick will be considered wildly successful.

50%.

 

[Jim Otis]

Oklahoma had a great college OL, but I find it hard to believe that their whole line is pro caliber. Sure, I think they have maybe two on that group who will be NFL caliber but though they helped Murray... I think having a mobile QB operating in that offense made them look better than they are

I agree with you JG , I thought KM showed a lot of mobility , and a lot of resolve . Many either didn't know or chose to ignore that the center snapping the ball to KM was a true freshman straight out of high school . I thought KM handled adversity superbly when the OU defense collapsed , giving up more than 40 points a game over 4 consecutive games , which led to the DC being fired in the middle of the season .Usually when things like that happen the program will nose dive , I liked the way KM met those challenges and won all 4 of those games . I think our young QB has been tested and found to be Captain Cool . IMHO he absolutely made the OU team look better than it was .

 

[BigRedRage]

In 2018, OU's line was at least very good, and most would consider it great.

Did this fact contribute to Murray's other-worldly 2018 performance? Without question.

Will not having a dominant line in front him in 2019 negatively affect KM's performance this year? Also, without question.

However, we do not need Murray to post a passer rating of 199, and run for 1000 yards, like he did in 2018. If he is just 50% as effective/productive in 2019, as he was in 2018, then the pick will be considered wildly successful.

50%.

I dont know if I would consider 2700 passing yards and 500 rushing yards "wildly successful".

 

[JeffGollin]

It's just basic common sense that mobile QB's buy the OL extra time. A Defense allowed to tee up on a stationary pocket passer in today's NFL is what D coordinators drool about. With the restrictions on the secondary's, the best way for the D to stop the pass is get pressure on the QB's. Their basic scheme is predicated on this premise. That's why the NFL has shifted somewhat.

The other option is to have an above average effective at minimum rushing attack. We could not do either one last year. Rush or protect.

Thus the #1.

My thinking too. Except that this carries certain scary risk factors - like the small mobile guy being cold-cocked by the defensive MVP. For the Cards to succeed will require more than a little "Murray magic" and, of course, more than a little luck.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I dont know if I would consider 2700 passing yards and 500 rushing yards "wildly successful".

I meant 50% of his passer rating BRR.

16 starts, 100 QB rating, 500 rushing yards = wildly successful.

And again, that's just 50% of his 2018 numbers for those two stats.

 

[Jetstream Green]

They had 4 OL drafted in the first 4 rounds of the draft.

I never once said their OL was not going to get drafted, and being drafted does not confirm you are a NFL caliber player till you prove you are one. I said I question whether or not that whole line was that good or if possibly Murray had something to do with making certain members appear to be thought of as so. I think it goes both ways, and Kyler might be responsible for such a large percentage of that line being drafted as much as they played a role for him. One of those what came first, the chicken or the egg

 

[Solar7]

I never once said their OL was not going to get drafted, and being drafted does not confirm you are a NFL caliber player till you prove you are one. I said I question whether or not that whole line was that good or if possibly Murray had something to do with making certain members appear to be thought of as so. I think it goes both ways, and Kyler might be responsible for such a large percentage of that line being drafted as much as they played a role for him. One of those what came first, the chicken or the egg

You don't need to be an NFL starter to be "NFL caliber."

Find me another team with 4 draftees in one season. It took Alabama 3 drafts to get to that number, and they're a dominant program at the position. Kyler had them all at once.