WTf? How does this ever happen with a “prop”?

[Covert Rain]

Wasn't pointing the gun at her? Unless she was killed by a ricocheting bullet he DID point the gun at her.

It's coming out, like the last post, that they were rehearsing a scene in which he was sitting in a pew and firing the gun in the direction of the camera. Which explains how the cinematographer would end up being the one killed. She was behind the camera.

Some experts/authorities are saying Baldwin could still be found guilty of negligent homicide. He can say that someone else handed him the gun / handled it before he got it, but in the end, he is responsible for what happens with it once it is in his possession. Did he check it to make sure it wasn't loaded, etc? Clearly not.

Again...."pointing" has an entirely different connotation than her being in the line of fire while he was practicing drawing a gun in a general direction. When you POINT a firearm at someone directly the intent is purposeful and focused on causing harm to that individual.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Wasn't pointing the gun at her? Unless she was killed by a ricocheting bullet he DID point the gun at her.

It's coming out, like the last post, that they were rehearsing a scene in which he was sitting in a pew and firing the gun in the direction of the camera. Which explains how the cinematographer would end up being the one killed. She was behind the camera.

Some experts/authorities are saying Baldwin could still be found guilty of negligent homicide. He can say that someone else handed him the gun / handled it before he got it, but in the end, he is responsible for what happens with it once it is in his possession. Did he check it to make sure it wasn't loaded, etc? Clearly not.

Yeah ..... No

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah ..... No

Wasn't pointing the gun at her? Unless she was killed by a ricocheting bullet he DID point the gun at her.

It's coming out, like the last post, that they were rehearsing a scene in which he was sitting in a pew and firing the gun in the direction of the camera. Which explains how the cinematographer would end up being the one killed. She was behind the camera.

Some experts/authorities are saying Baldwin could still be found guilty of negligent homicide. He can say that someone else handed him the gun / handled it before he got it, but in the end, he is responsible for what happens with it once it is in his possession. Did he check it to make sure it wasn't loaded, etc? Clearly not.

More often then not the cinematographer isn’t the camera operator. They’re usually sitting at video village, right next to the director, all of it set up a good little bit away from the actual set. Not sure if she was actually operating camera or not. Most DPs don’t so they can sit and focus on the take without having to also work camera.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

More often then not the cinematographer isn’t the camera operator. They’re usually sitting at video village, right next to the director, all of it set up a good little bit away from the actual set. Not sure if she was actually operating camera or not. Most DPs don’t so they can sit and focus on the take without having to also work camera.

This is allegedly the last photo taken on the set.

She wasn't behind the camera but was opposite Baldwin next to the camera at the time of the photo.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is allegedly the last photo taken on the set.

She wasn't behind the camera but was opposite Baldwin next to the camera at the time of the photo.

You must be registered for see images attach

Yeah. Looks like they’re blocking the scene. Once you get to an actual rehearsal, the DP sits next to the director in front of monitors at video village.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Again...."pointing" has an entirely different connotation than her being in the line of fire while he was practicing drawing a gun in a general direction. When you POINT a firearm at someone directly the intent is purposeful and focused on causing harm to that individual.

So, he didn't point the gun at her, but in order for her to be hit and killed the gun was pointed in her direction. I wasn't implying intent, just that for her to be killed - the gun definitely ended up being pointed at her, intentionally or not.

 

[Chaplin]

More often then not the cinematographer isn’t the camera operator. They’re usually sitting at video village, right next to the director, all of it set up a good little bit away from the actual set. Not sure if she was actually operating camera or not. Most DPs don’t so they can sit and focus on the take without having to also work camera.

If it was a rehearsal then she was certainly there doing blocking. The director next to her supports that theory.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I love that we have people on here (@cheesebeef / @Chaplin ) who have the actual on-set experience to help those of us not in the industry understand the inner workings of filmmaking and where each person working on a film/TV show is normally situated. Thanks, fellas.

The whole thing is just such an avoidable tragedy. From the allegedly inexperienced/reckless armorer (per Nic Cage and others on the set of The Old Way film) to the irresponsible Assistant Director who handled the gun but admittedly didn't verify it had no live ammo in it, to an actor trusting someone else that a weapon is all clear, etc.

IMHO, Guns on movie sets should be like coffee cups in Hallmark movies - fake and empty.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

‘Rust’ AD Admits He Didn’t Check Rounds Before Handing Gun to Alec Baldwin

‘Rust’ AD Admits He Didn’t Check Rounds Before Handing Gun to Alec Baldwin

The first assistant director on “Rust,” David Halls, acknowledged to investigators that he should have checked a weapon for live rounds before giving it to Alec Baldwin, according to a …

variety.com

 

[Devilmaycare]

‘Rust’ AD Admits He Didn’t Check Rounds Before Handing Gun to Alec Baldwin​

​

‘Rust’ AD Admits He Didn’t Check Rounds Before Handing Gun to Alec Baldwin

The first assistant director on “Rust,” David Halls, acknowledged to investigators that he should have checked a weapon for live rounds before giving it to Alec Baldwin, according to a …

variety.com

@cheesebeef @Chaplin is there a protocol for the actor when handed a gun on set? Like are there any requirements for them to check the load, condition of the gun, etc. Whenever I'm handed a weapon when I go out shooting I always check the chamber and the mag if it's not a revolver. It's one of those safety force of habit checks. So I've been curious if actors are supposed to do something similar when handed a weapon from the armorer or other crew member.

 

[Chaplin]

@cheesebeef @Chaplin is there a protocol for the actor when handed a gun on set? Like are there any requirements for them to check the load, condition of the gun, etc. Whenever I'm handed a weapon when I go out shooting I always check the chamber and the mag if it's not a revolver. It's one of those safety force of habit checks. So I've been curious if actors are supposed to do something similar when handed a weapon from the armorer or other crew member.

Usually these weapons have been checked multiple times by more than one person even before the actor gets their hands on it. I think there may be a common sense aspect to this, but really, unless the actor is classically trained in firearms, they wouldn't even think to check. Think of all the rehearsals/filming with guns he had already been doing on this set without incident. I just don't see any liability on Baldwin's part here. It's a sticky line, but an actor isn't going to know that the gun has a live round in it--his job is to act, and he has to trust those around him to allow him to do so.

What you have here is a low-budget production without any kind of umbrella supervision, run by people who are incompetent and likely got the job because their fee was low. It's a bad combination when there are a lot of weapons on set, real or not. It's not the actor's job to determine if a gun they are handed is safe -- it's usually assumed that it is.

I'll be honest, in one of the movies I produced and edited, we had a guy walk up some stairs outside a guy's apartment, holding a shotgun. Which he then pointed at the keyhole of a door. It was never fired, fake or not (I believe it could not be fired or loaded) -- in editing I added the gunshot (it was a dream sequence). So my experience with this sort of thing is limited, but there are common sense safety things you need to do that wasn't done on this one. And this one had a much bigger budget than mine had. I mean, the stuff about the crew going out and using the guns for real target practice is just bonkers. That production company is going to be in a lot of trouble.

 

[Covert Rain]

‘Rust’ AD Admits He Didn’t Check Rounds Before Handing Gun to Alec Baldwin​

​

‘Rust’ AD Admits He Didn’t Check Rounds Before Handing Gun to Alec Baldwin

The first assistant director on “Rust,” David Halls, acknowledged to investigators that he should have checked a weapon for live rounds before giving it to Alec Baldwin, according to a …

variety.com

Such an unnecessary tragedy. I really hope this drives change.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

I mean, the stuff about the crew going out and using the guns for real target practice is just bonkers. That production company is going to be in a lot of trouble.

This is the line.

It's going to be a massive stretch for any criminal liability, but there will be a lot of civil liability

In my industry (insurance) we deal with one, but not uncommon to see both.

If there were to be anything criminal, it surely wouldn't be with Baldwin - regardless of his personality

They had a tool on their job that wasn't prepared properly and when used in it's normal fashion a fatal accident happened

If someone is hoisting a load with a crane and they bring in expert riggers given the needs of the lift and then the rigging fails once the lift starts and it kills someone, the crane operator isn't going to jail...... Most everyone on site will be paying money though

This is a job site incident - Baldwin wasn't carelessly handling a fireman in his backyard

 

[Devilmaycare]

Usually these weapons have been checked multiple times by more than one person even before the actor gets their hands on it. I think there may be a common sense aspect to this, but really, unless the actor is classically trained in firearms, they wouldn't even think to check. Think of all the rehearsals/filming with guns he had already been doing on this set without incident. I just don't see any liability on Baldwin's part here. It's a sticky line, but an actor isn't going to know that the gun has a live round in it--his job is to act, and he has to trust those around him to allow him to do so.

What you have here is a low-budget production without any kind of umbrella supervision, run by people who are incompetent and likely got the job because their fee was low. It's a bad combination when there are a lot of weapons on set, real or not. It's not the actor's job to determine if a gun they are handed is safe -- it's usually assumed that it is.

I'll be honest, in one of the movies I produced and edited, we had a guy walk up some stairs outside a guy's apartment, holding a shotgun. Which he then pointed at the keyhole of a door. It was never fired, fake or not (I believe it could not be fired or loaded) -- in editing I added the gunshot (it was a dream sequence). So my experience with this sort of thing is limited, but there are common sense safety things you need to do that wasn't done on this one. And this one had a much bigger budget than mine had. I mean, the stuff about the crew going out and using the guns for real target practice is just bonkers. That production company is going to be in a lot of trouble.

Thanks, for the info. Maybe some sort of firearms training should be required from now on for any actor that has to handle a weapon while filming. It doesn't have to be Keanu training for John Wick level but base level training. Like if you went and took the 100 and 101 pistol classes that C2 offers.

I don't think we'll see criminal charges against Baldwin on this unless there's damning evidence that hasn't come out yet. I think we'll see liability on Baldwin's part though when it comes to civil litigation since he was a producer on it. I'd be shocked if no one sued with the news about the walk offs over safety, low budget, the other safety issues, etc. If that happens he'll get named in it since he was a producer and the biggest name in the production.

 

[Cheesebeef]

@cheesebeef @Chaplin is there a protocol for the actor when handed a gun on set? Like are there any requirements for them to check the load, condition of the gun, etc. Whenever I'm handed a weapon when I go out shooting I always check the chamber and the mag if it's not a revolver. It's one of those safety force of habit checks. So I've been curious if actors are supposed to do something similar when handed a weapon from the armorer or other crew member.

They don’t want the actors monkeying around with a gun that should have been checked multiple times before it’s given to them.

But most actors who end up in scenes using firearms are usually given some kind of training before or during the movie/season on how to carry and shoot the gun. Then they spend the rest of production making the director/writer/producers on set crazy, totally forgetting their training.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Baldwin wasn't carelessly handling a fireman in his backyard

Is that one of those outdated laws still on the books?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

An actor on the CW's 'Roswell, New Mexico' says he is always shown the inside of a gun right before filming a scene to confirm it's not loaded

"On my show, Baldwin would've seen the inside of the gun," Michael Vlamis told Insider, saying the production doesn't use live rounds or blanks.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Shane]

You don't have to point a gun at someone to get them shot. If he was practicing his draw as the director stated all she had to be is in the line of fire. I never said that Baldwin shouldn't have taken more precaution. Most actors can't tell the difference between a blank, live round etc. However, they also said the assistant director gave him the all clear calling the gun "cold" prior to him practicing. There was lots of negligence to go around but let's not manipulate the narrative here. When someone says he POINTED the gun at her that paints a completely different picture. That insinuates he took aim and pulled the trigger intentionally at her which doesn't appear to be the case by all those present. As someone who has been around guns my entire life I can tell you there is a huge difference between POINTING a gun at someone and someone being in the line of fire getting hurt.

The bigger issue here is having live firearms on sets at all nowadays. There simply isn't a reason to allow live firearms on set any longer. None.

There is literally no way to shoot her if he wasn’t pointing it at her? If she was “in the line of fire” as you say then he put her there by pointing it in that direction. Unless as he’s practicing and pulled the trigger she herself just so happened at that second to jump/walk in front of him? Sounds kinda fishy to me....

Any live gun in any situation should be checked to make sure it’s safe.... All guns in any instance should be assumed they are hot until otherwise checked by EVERYONE in line to handle it. Including Baldwin. At the very least he showed gross negligence by grabbing and firing a working handgun without checking it personally and just taking someone’s word for it.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Except he didn't

This is a movie set people

Any negligence happened well in advance

 

[Shane]

Except he didn't

This is a movie set people

Any negligence happened well in advance

Negative. Anyone that participates in the handling of a real and functional firearm at any point has a duty to make sure its empty before they pull a trigger. Literally no exceptions. You don't ever take someones word for it. Just because its a movie set is irrelevent. As you can see this is what happens and there is literally no excuse for it. Pure negligence from top right into his hands at the bottom.

 

[Stout]

Negative. Anyone that participates in the handling of a real and functional firearm at any point has a duty to make sure its empty before they pull a trigger. Literally no exceptions. You don't ever take someones word for it. Just because its a movie set is irrelevent. As you can see this is what happens and there is literally no excuse for it. Pure negligence from top right into his hands at the bottom.

I get where you're coming from as a professional who handles guns for a living; I agree, as someone who had to handle guns for a living and used guns for hunting. He's a liberal actor who absolutely never was involved in any kind of gun culture, so all the hard-core attitudes about gun safety were never in his world. He has experts around him to show him what to do and to take care of the firearms for him. If they didn't tell him to check it every time--and I seriously doubt they did--how would he know to do so?

 

[Chaplin]

I get where you're coming from as a professional who handles guns for a living; I agree, as someone who had to handle guns for a living and used guns for hunting. He's a liberal actor who absolutely never was involved in any kind of gun culture, so all the hard-core attitudes about gun safety were never in his world. He has experts around him to show him what to do and to take care of the firearms for him. If they didn't tell him to check it every time--and I seriously doubt they did--how would he know to do so?

Him being “liberal” has nothing to do with it. On this set alone he had likely handled weapons dozens of times without incident. Why would he think this time would be any different?

Shane’s thoughts are in the right place but they are detached from the reality of the situation. On normal film sets, there are strict protocols. There have been HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS of films made that include firearms. You can count these incidents on one hand. That’s not to say that there should be stricter standards on low budget film sets, but blaming Baldwin here is not looking at the whole situation. There were a lot of things that went wrong on that set WELL before Alec Baldwin was even handed that gun.

 

[GatorAZ]

People get hit with strays I don’t see why this is different. Just a freak accident it sounds like.

 

[Devilmaycare]

Him being “liberal” has nothing to do with it. On this set alone he had likely handled weapons dozens of times without incident. Why would he think this time would be any different?

"I've driven home drunk dozens of times, why would I think this time would be any different?" When you're dealing with something that has the potential to kill you don't make assumptions like that. It only takes one time to ruin multiple lives.

 

[Chaplin]

"I've driven home drunk dozens of times, why would I think this time would be any different?" When you're dealing with something that has the potential to kill you don't make assumptions like that. It only takes one time to ruin multiple lives.

That is way way overboard and you know it. Baldwin was not drunk.