Yahoo's Jason Cole on Peyton, Kolb, and Skelton

[kerouac9]

Kolb hasn't been good, never said he has been. But he has shown as much, if not more, in 16 starts than Smith did in 5+ years. My complaint is you rip on Kolb but are/were willing to give Smith 7 years, make excuses for his performance, and tout his 13-3 record while ignoring the past. If Kolb lead the Cards to the playoffs next year will you still bash him? Or does he have to win a Super Bowl to be worth giving up the 51st pick in a bad draft plus DRC, who, if we are just judging by last year, which seems to be the case, did absolutely nothing.

I have no truck with whether or not you knew that Alex Smith was a free agent. It's not my fault that you don't follow the position that was most important to your team in the offseason. And Harbaugh talked up Smith to the press from the day that he was hired, and visited Alex Smith's wife in the hospital following the birth of their child. I guess these are the kinds of things that you do when you're indifferent to your starting QB.

I don't think Levi is a bust any more than I thought that Leonard Davis was. You don't get 15+ starts a year for 5 years from a bust. I think that both Alex Smith and Levi Brown are disappointments. But on the "bust" scale, I would put Smith behind recent real busts like Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, and Matt Leinart. Would he be ahead of or behind Vince Young? Young was cut in disgrace and is a backup in Philly (took Kolb's old job). Alex Smith will sign his fourth contract with San Francisco this offseason. Is he more or less of a bust than Rex Grossman? Again, Alex Smith ends up solidly in the middle of a class--where for some baffling reason you refuse to place him.

As for Smith's third year--are you talking about the one where he started all of 7 games, three of which were after suffering a separated shoulder and being forced by his head coach to return to action? That year? The year he began 2-2 before the injury?

Braylon Edwards who was released 3/4 of the way through the season and started 5 games? Do you really not think that I"m going to call you out on this nonsense?

Kevin Kolb would kill to be 2 games under .500 for his career. Unfortunately, he's not. Nowhere close.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I have no truck with whether or not you knew that Alex Smith was a free agent. It's not my fault that you don't follow the position that was most important to your team in the offseason. And Harbaugh talked up Smith to the press from the day that he was hired, and visited Alex Smith's wife in the hospital following the birth of their child. I guess these are the kinds of things that you do when you're indifferent to your starting QB.
No, but a 1 year 4 mill contract offer is much more telling than a hospital visit.
I don't think Levi is a bust any more than I thought that Leonard Davis was. You don't get 15+ starts a year for 5 years from a bust. I think that both Alex Smith and Levi Brown are disappointments. But on the "bust" scale, I would put Smith behind recent real busts like Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, and Matt Leinart. Would he be ahead of or behind Vince Young? Young was cut in disgrace and is a backup in Philly (took Kolb's old job). Alex Smith will sign his fourth contract with San Francisco this offseason. Is he more or less of a bust than Rex Grossman? Again, Alex Smith ends up solidly in the middle of a class--where for some baffling reason you refuse to place him.

As for Smith's third year--are you talking about the one where he started all of 7 games, three of which were after suffering a separated shoulder and being forced by his head coach to return to action? That year? The year he began 2-2 before the injury?
Excuses for Alex Smith for $100. This guy gets more excuse thrown his way than anybody I have seen.
Braylon Edwards who was released 3/4 of the way through the season and started 5 games? Do you really not think that I"m going to call you out on this nonsense?

Kevin Kolb would kill to be 2 games under .500 for his career. Unfortunately, he's not. Nowhere close. And neither was Smith until year 7 with a 13-3 team. Guess what Smith's career mark as a starter was after 16 starts?

I'll even answer that for you, 6-10. Sound familiar? And that was winning the last two games, one a convincing 9-3 shootout. He was 4-10 prior to that.

 

[kerouac9]

Cbus, to put this into perspective for you, let me just give you a black and white choice:

Would you rather have Kevin Kolb for $20 million over two years, or Alex Smith for $13 million over two years (I'm assuming that he'll get an extension from San Fran that's something like three years, $25 million, with $14 million guaranteed--I'll put another $3 million on his 2011 salary to pry him away from a coach who wanted him last offseason), plus the 55th pick in the 2012 NFL draft?

I know what my answer is.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I have no truck with whether or not you knew that Alex Smith was a free agent. It's not my fault that you don't follow the position that was most important to your team in the offseason. And Harbaugh talked up Smith to the press from the day that he was hired, and visited Alex Smith's wife in the hospital following the birth of their child. I guess these are the kinds of things that you do when you're indifferent to your starting QB.

I don't think Levi is a bust any more than I thought that Leonard Davis was. You don't get 15+ starts a year for 5 years from a bust. I think that both Alex Smith and Levi Brown are disappointments. But on the "bust" scale, I would put Smith behind recent real busts like Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, and Matt Leinart. Would he be ahead of or behind Vince Young? Young was cut in disgrace and is a backup in Philly (took Kolb's old job). Alex Smith will sign his fourth contract with San Francisco this offseason. Is he more or less of a bust than Rex Grossman? Again, Alex Smith ends up solidly in the middle of a class--where for some baffling reason you refuse to place him.

As for Smith's third year--are you talking about the one where he started all of 7 games, three of which were after suffering a separated shoulder and being forced by his head coach to return to action? That year? The year he began 2-2 before the injury?

Braylon Edwards who was released 3/4 of the way through the season and started 5 games? Do you really not think that I"m going to call you out on this nonsense?

Kevin Kolb would kill to be 2 games under .500 for his career. Unfortunately, he's not. Nowhere close.

Cbus, to put this into perspective for you, let me just give you a black and white choice:

Would you rather have Kevin Kolb for $20 million over two years, or Alex Smith for $13 million over two years (I'm assuming that he'll get an extension from San Fran that's something like three years, $25 million, with $14 million guaranteed--I'll put another $3 million on his 2011 salary to pry him away from a coach who wanted him last offseason), plus the 55th pick in the 2012 NFL draft?

I know what my answer is.

That's a bogus question. At the time, there is no question I would have went with Kolb. However, with his current concussion issues I wouldn't give Kolb that kind of money. If I knew both would be 100% healthy, I would go with Kolb. If I had to choose between Smith and concussed, mashed potato brained Kolb, I guess I would go with Smith

If the situation presented itself today, I would pass on both options and go with Skelton.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I have no truck with whether or not you knew that Alex Smith was a free agent. It's not my fault that you don't follow the position that was most important to your team in the offseason. And Harbaugh talked up Smith to the press from the day that he was hired, and visited Alex Smith's wife in the hospital following the birth of their child. I guess these are the kinds of things that you do when you're indifferent to your starting QB.

i'm no Kolb fan... but as to the above, money talks and ******** walks and for a guy you believe Harbaugh REALLY liked to only get a one year deal for 4 million bucks... well, that money speaks louder than anything else up there.

 

[Phrazbit]

Wait, Cbus, you use the Niners giving Smith a 1 year deal as a "telling" sign of a lack of faith, yet when we were debating about Kolb you were claiming his 1 year deal with the Eagles was evidence that they had the utmost faith in him...

You cant have it both ways.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Wait, Cbus, you use the Niners giving Smith a 1 year deal as a "telling" sign of a lack of faith, yet when we were debating about Kolb you were claiming his 1 year deal with the Eagles was evidence that they had the utmost faith in him...

You cant have it both ways.

It was a contract extension Kolb received and it was for 10+ mill. Smith was an UFA and was so valued that he jumped at the first 1 year 4 mill offer. Big difference. I also said it was very smart on the Eagles part not to offer a long term contract until they had to.

 

[Phrazbit]

It was a contract extension Kolb received and it was for 10+ mill. Smith was an UFA and was so valued that he jumped at the first 1 year 4 mill offer. Big difference. I also said it was very smart on the Eagles part not to offer a long term contract until they had to.

They were both ONE YEAR DEALS! Thats the more telling part of a teams plans.

And I dont think anyone is claiming Smith had value around the league, k9 is merely pointing out that its hard to claim Smith for 4 million is not a significantly better option than tens of millions, a draft pick and a starting corner... for what may amount to half a season of Kolb.

 

[kerouac9]

i'm no Kolb fan... but as to the above, money talks and ******** walks and for a guy you believe Harbaugh REALLY liked to only get a one year deal for 4 million bucks... well, that money speaks louder than anything else up there.

Smith is/was sensitive to the fact that he hadn't played up to his draft status/salary under his rookie deal. $4 million is a pretty good deal for a guy whose team just invested a 2nd rounder in a QB. Obviously that was a temporary show me contract. But it was about what the Hawks gave Tavaris.

My argument was never about forever. It was always about the next couple years until a real solution came along.

I humbly accept Cbus's apology for misunderstanding me about Alex Smith for the past year and being wrong for who would be better between him and Kolb this year.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The Alex Smith spin machine continues. Now he feels bad about his draft status and contract. He's just a sensitive guy, wtf are you talking about. Pretty laughable. You can't really be that stupid and believe that, can you? Humbly accept whatever you want because nothing came from me.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I only "know" that I'm fatigued by the too-and-fro of this argument and hope that with a full off-season, Kolb will prove worthy.

So do I.

Just don't think it will.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Cbus, to put this into perspective for you, let me just give you a black and white choice:

Would you rather have Kevin Kolb for $20 million over two years, or Alex Smith for $13 million over two years (I'm assuming that he'll get an extension from San Fran that's something like three years, $25 million, with $14 million guaranteed--I'll put another $3 million on his 2011 salary to pry him away from a coach who wanted him last offseason), plus the 55th pick in the 2012 NFL draft?

I know what my answer is.

Double Deuce ?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

QB's are judged on their number of starts; not age or year's holding a clip board.

Tell that to Brandon Weeden when he is drafted 2 to 3 rounds later than his ability dictates because of his .......wait for it........age.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Tell that to Brandon Weeden when he is drafted 2 to 3 rounds later than his ability dictates because of his .......wait for it........age.

Not clear on your point, but - I make a distinction between NFL starts and College.

 

[kerouac9]

The Alex Smith spin machine continues. Now he feels bad about his draft status and contract. He's just a sensitive guy, wtf are you talking about. Pretty laughable. You can't really be that stupid and believe that, can you? Humbly accept whatever you want because nothing came from me.

Are you sure? Because this sounds a lot like "you were right, and I was wrong."

That's a bogus question. At the time, there is no question I would have went with Kolb. However, with his current concussion issues I wouldn't give Kolb that kind of money. If I knew both would be 100% healthy, I would go with Kolb. If I had to choose between Smith and concussed, mashed potato brained Kolb, I guess I would go with Smith

If the situation presented itself today, I would pass on both options and go with Skelton.

So... we got concussed, out-two-months-with-turf-toe Kolb.... the guy you wanted. A year later, you're admitting that had you known then what you know now, you would've taken the option that I was advocating since last February.

Apology accepted.

As for Smith's contract... ?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3967496

49ers quarterback Alex Smith has had a disappointing start to his career, but he was adamant about one thing -- he wanted to stay in San Francisco.

As a result of his loyalty, Smith was able to rework the final two years of his contract and stay with the 49ers. According to a source, Smith will make $4 million a season in 2009 and 2010, in addition to base salaries that weren't immediately made known.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700167025/49ers-sign-QB-Alex-Smith-to-new-one-year-deal.html

Smith took it upon himself to organize workouts and meetings for his teammates during the lockout, sessions that became known as "Camp Alex." Harbaugh noticed and appreciated the QB's initiative. Yet Harbaugh had already anointed Smith as his likely starter months ago, even though he was a free agent with no guarantee of re-signing.

It's not spin if it's true. It's not like Smith shopped around looking for suitors, or San Francisco cast about and then returned to the guy they knew. Smith was signed at the opening of free agency.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Are you sure? Because this sounds a lot like "you were right, and I was wrong."




So... we got concussed, out-two-months-with-turf-toe Kolb.... the guy you wanted. A year later, you're admitting that had you known then what you know now, you would've taken the option that I was advocating since last February.

Apology accepted.

As for Smith's contract... ?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3967496



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700167025/49ers-sign-QB-Alex-Smith-to-new-one-year-deal.html



It's not spin if it's true. It's not like Smith shopped around looking for suitors, or San Francisco cast about and then returned to the guy they knew. Smith was signed at the opening of free agency.

K-9 - I do recall you suggesting that Smith could be an option for the Cards, I do not, however, recall you being adamantly opposed to acquiring Kolb.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

K-9: Here's something else you were advocating, which is on page one of the thread you bumped:

"I think that Kolb for a 2nd is a fair deal, and would even live with a long-term commitment to Kolb if a 2nd rounder is all we give up in exchange (even 2 seconds)."

 

[Phrazbit]

QB's are judged on their number of starts; not age or year's holding a clip board.

Right, so a guy a few months out of college should be judged the exact same as someone who has been in the league for 3 or 4 years, practicing with NFL players, seeing first hand the speed of the NFL game and learning NFL schemes?

Once again, I will repeat. If Kolb in 5 years learned nothing more than a rookie does after a few months of camp then he does not belong in the NFL.

I however do not believe that is the case. Kolb is simply what he is. A below average, injury prone QB.

 

[kerouac9]

K-9: Here's something else you were advocating, which is on page one of the thread you bumped:

"I think that Kolb for a 2nd is a fair deal, and would even live with a long-term commitment to Kolb if a 2nd rounder is all we give up in exchange (even 2 seconds)."

Since the Kolb trade was pretty much a fair accompli the entire offseason, it didn't seem worth it to mount a passionate offense against him. I said it before and after the trade that we gave up too much for him. An he failed to
Perform to the middling expectations I had for him going into the year. Can't be described as anything but a huge disappointment.

I advocated for Alex Smith AHEAD of Kevin Kolb as an option. When I find time I'll locate the K9's offseason thread where I laid that out.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Are you sure? Because this sounds a lot like "you were right, and I was wrong."




So... we got concussed, out-two-months-with-turf-toe Kolb.... the guy you wanted. A year later, you're admitting that had you known then what you know now, you would've taken the option that I was advocating since last February.
Injuries happen, your point is nonsense.I also said Chris Wells would have more yards than Adrian Petrson but that wouldn't have happened without injury also.
Apology accepted.

As for Smith's contract... ?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3967496



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700167025/49ers-sign-QB-Alex-Smith-to-new-one-year-deal.html



It's not spin if it's true. It's not like Smith shopped around looking for suitors, or San Francisco cast about and then returned to the guy they knew. Smith was signed at the opening of free agency.

Out of loyalty . His loyalty was to his bank account. I either accept this contract or I'm likely playing for the Calgary Stampeders.

But he is a sensitive guy and feels bad for severely underperforming his #1 draft status. Maybe he'll give SF the money back they paid him for being the overall #1 pick. I mean he's sensitive, loyal and feels really, really bad about it. It's the least he could do.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes, injuries happen, especially to injury prone players with bad pocket awareness. And its not as though he wasnt already a massive disappointment before he ever got hurt.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Yes, injuries happen, especially to injury prone players with bad pocket awareness. And its not as though he wasnt already a massive disappointment before he ever got hurt.

Every one is prone to injury in a crash sport like football or hockey. Much prefer the term injury plagued.