You guys are crazy wanting to trade PP

[CardsSunsDbacks]

oh Jesus... I forgot you were the guy who said that Devin Booker was a better offensive player than Kobe using this same kind of twisted logic.

the world didn’t start with you starting to watch sports.

Booker is absolutely a better offensive player than Kobe. He isn't by any means as good overall as Kobe, but purely looking at offense he is better. Unfortunately for him the game is played on both ends.

 

[GatorAZ]

And your point? Gilmore was able to put up 6 interceptions, 1 fumble recovery and scored 2 defensive TDs while having to adhere to today's rules. No guarantee AW would be putting up those same stats today.

Well I’m not sure if you remember peak Aeneas or not but you’re talking about dropping a player into a different era. With the caveat that Aeneas would’ve already played in and developed his game in THIS era there’s no question in my mind he’d still be amazing.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Well I’m not sure if you remember peak Aeneas or not but you’re talking about dropping a player into a different era. With the caveat that Aeneas would’ve already played in and developed his game in THIS era there’s no question in my mind he’d still be amazing.

He was extremely talented and would thus still be a damn good player today, but his stats likely wouldn't have been as gaudy as they were simply because today's NFL makes covering WRs a much tougher task than in the past.

 

[GatorAZ]

Booker is absolutely a better offensive player than Kobe. He isn't by any means as good overall as Kobe, but purely looking at offense he is better. Unfortunately for him the game is played on both ends.

Kobe dragged a couple of horrible teams to the playoffs. Teams who’s third leading scorer was Smush Parker yet finished top-10 in scoring offense. That goes beyond advanced metrics comparisons between players otherwise James Harden is a better offensive player than Michael Jordan too.

 

[AZ Native]

PP has been a non factor in all but a few games in the last couple of years. It is time to move on.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Kobe dragged a couple of horrible teams to the playoffs. Teams who’s third leading scorer was Smush Parker yet finished top-10 in scoring offense. That goes beyond advanced metrics comparisons between players otherwise James Harden is a better offensive player than Michael Jordan too.

Extremely well coached teams and while his offensive help wasn't good they were good defensive teams. Again the game is played on both ends and between him having much better coaching and being the better two way player his teams overachieved their talent.

I would be very curious to see what the Suns would have looked like the last few years with a someone as good as Phil Jackson coaching them.

 

[oaken1]

But would he get all those interceptions while not being allowed to basically even touch a WR? There was a lot of plays back then where a corner would damn near mug a WR before picking off the pass. I would also argue that receivers are all around more athletic today than they were back then. So combine more speed on the field with less allowable contact and coverage is much tougher today.

Yes he would. I watched AW streak the sideline wearing Michael irvins jersey without ever touching him
AW was a freak... Prime is the only dB that was ever better and you could even argue that because AW supported the run and wasn’t afraid to get dirty
Not saying pp is bad but AW was on an entirely different level

 

[Syracusecards]

Aeneas was a better all around player and a true shutdown corner.

I love Aeneas and don’t disagree with you but I wonder how he would fare with all the ticky tack holding and PI calls these days. He could be pretty handsy sometimes.

 

[Syracusecards]

My only question for the last 2 years has been, is he even open to resigning here if he isn't the highest paid CB in the league? He has been vocal about wanting out.

If he has been waiting for his chance to hit FA, then we should be shopping him rather than watching him walk for nothing.

That being said, if we trade him, we are worse right now...and this team has a shot at the playoffs, so I would be very hesitant to do it.

I feel like our team is so good right now that if it’s just a matter of getting 5% less from us than some other team that he would stay with us. he seems like he is having so much fun.

 

[oaken1]

I love Aeneas and don’t disagree with you but I wonder how he would fare with all the ticky tack holding and PI calls these days. He could be pretty handsy sometimes.

But he played within the rules then and he would play within the rules now

sad part of it is.... if someone were to go ask AW today which guy is better he would instantly say pp is better than he ever was..... which just makes the man even better

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

But he played within the rules then and he would play within the rules now

sad part of it is.... if someone were to go ask AW today which guy is better he would instantly say pp is better than he ever was..... which just makes the man even better

Obviously he would play within these rules as he wouldn't see the field if he didn't. The question isn't whether or not he could play within these current rules , but whether or not they would at all hinder his performance. I think it would to some extent, but not to where he wouldn't be a great player still.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Worth a listen, a Pat P classic

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Krangodnzr]

he’s be better today simply because he was always a shutdown corner and because he played the run stout as well. For all of PP’s cover skills, he’s been a nonfactor in the run game at best.

And from a statistical standpoint there is literally no comparison. Aeneas wasn’t just a shutdown corner, he was a playmaker extraordinaire. He knew how to bait QBs into picks and an incredible nose for the end zone as a defender.

55 interceptions, 8 forced fumbles, 12 defensive TDs.

that was all playing on mostly godawful teams that couldn’t breathe on the QB and corners who couldn’t cover a bed opposite him.

Peterson meanwhile has 27 ints, 1 forced fumble and 1 defensive touchdown.

Peterson has definitely seen his fair share of bad teams, but not like the dreck AW did and while a great shutdown corner at times in his career, he’s never been the playmaker that Aeneas was in addition to already being as good coverage wise.

Yeah I can't believe anyone would even make the argument.

Aeneas was just so damn good. Anyone remember the longest fumble recovery for a TD in NFL history? Aeneas scooped up a fumble by Stephen Davis and returned it for 108 yards.

 

[Shane]

he’s be better today simply because he was always a shutdown corner and because he played the run stout as well. For all of PP’s cover skills, he’s been a nonfactor in the run game at best.

And from a statistical standpoint there is literally no comparison. Aeneas wasn’t just a shutdown corner, he was a playmaker extraordinaire. He knew how to bait QBs into picks and an incredible nose for the end zone as a defender.

55 interceptions, 8 forced fumbles, 12 defensive TDs.

that was all playing on mostly godawful teams that couldn’t breathe on the QB and corners who couldn’t cover a bed opposite him.

Peterson meanwhile has 27 ints, 1 forced fumble and 1 defensive touchdown.

Peterson has definitely seen his fair share of bad teams, but not like the dreck AW did and while a great shutdown corner at times in his career, he’s never been the playmaker that Aeneas was in addition to already being as good coverage wise.

Game set and match

 

[Krangodnzr]

Obviously he would play within these rules as he wouldn't see the field if he didn't. The question isn't whether or not he could play within these current rules , but whether or not they would at all hinder his performance. I think it would to some extent, but not to where he wouldn't be a great player still.

He was just such a complete corner. Great against the run, shutdown corner, top interception man, forced fumbles. Peterson also had a stretch where he was good, whereas Aeneas was great from year 3 until he switched to safety.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

He was just such a complete corner. Great against the run, shutdown corner, top interception man, forced fumbles. Peterson also had a stretch where he was good, whereas Aeneas was great from year 3 until he switched to safety.

I'm not even trying to make the comparison like some in here have. I think it is a fools errand to try and argue that PP is on AW's level, let alone better. My arguments are more in the vein that I don't think it is as far apart as some may think (specifically talking about coverage capabilities) and that is largely because PP is playing under a different more strict set of rules.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He was just such a complete corner. Great against the run, shutdown corner, top interception man, forced fumbles. Peterson also had a stretch where he was good, whereas Aeneas was great from year 3 until he switched to safety.

yup. Aeneas was basically a bigger Honey Badger pre-ACL injuries. His toughness, cover skills, nose for the ball were unparalleled. The only CB in the game better than him was Deion.

Had he been on Dallas, Redskins, Niners or Giants people would have talked about him as one of the all-time greats. Hell... he still made the All-Decade team playing on a Cards team who were over .500 ONCE in ten years... and that team was 9-7.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I love Aeneas and don’t disagree with you but I wonder how he would fare with all the ticky tack holding and PI calls these days. He could be pretty handsy sometimes.

If you want an example of how the rules have changed things like interceptions than look at these numbers.

In 2019 the average pass attempts per team were 557.9 and there was a total of 410 interceptions thrown.

Here are the numbers in the 90s (Average pass attempts/total interceptions): 1990 482.7 / 480, 1991 498.2 / 488, 1992 478.9 / 519, 1993 514.8 / 469, 1994 537.7 / 474, 1995 556.6 / 512, 1996 532.2 / 542, 1997 524.3 / 479, 1998 516.3 / 509, 1999 540.6 / 562.

As you can see from those numbers every single one of those years averaged less pass attempts than 2019 (2019 was actually a slow year in that regard compared to some other years in the 2010s), but yet still always had significantly more interceptions thrown.

Also keep in mind that from 1990-94 there were only 28 teams (32 less total games played across the league), 1995-98 there were 30 teams (16 less total games) and 1999 there were 31 teams (8 less total games). Imagine if those same averages kept up with 32 teams all 10 years.

Point is that the way the game has changed in terms of rules has made intercepting the ball as much as in the past nearly impossible. So gone are the days of top CBs having careers with 50+ interceptions.

 

[Finito]

Yes AW was great and guess what? So is Patrick Peterson. Last I checked both guys are on an NFL all decade team

Jesus Christ last I checked both these guys are Arizona Cardinal legends. No other board on this site does this.

God: Hey Cardinal fans your gonna draft a guy in the first round next year who’s gonna go to 8 pro bowls and be voted to the NFL’s all decade team. Would that make you happy?

ASFN posters: NO...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

you literally have nothing to back this up.

You don’t have anything, other than your opinion, to say Aeneas would be better than PP.

Just like my opinion that, iirc the first CB to be a all pro his first 7 years, would be better.

 

[GuernseyCard]

The only CB that can even be in the conversation with Peterson is Aeneas. Let that sink in for the Haters. His only comp is another hall of famer.

it’s a different game today. They’ve pretty much made it impossible to play CB and he’s been the best man to man CB for about a decade others have come and gone and it’s pretty much Peterson and Sherman left standing.

Roger Wehrli (CB) RD:1 - pick 19

• Pro Football Hall of Fame
• College Football Hall of Fame

"The term ‘Shutdown Corner’ originated with Roger Wehrli. There wasn't a better cornerback I played against. He was a great, great defensive back. You had to be aware of him all the time.” Roger Staubach

• 7× Pro Bowl (1970, 1971, 1974–1977, 1979)
• 5× First-team All-Pro (1970, 1974–1977)
• Second-team All-Pro (1971)
• Arizona Cardinals Ring of Honor
• NFL 1970s All-Decade Team
• Consensus All-American (1968)

Career NFL statistics

1. Interceptions: 40
2. Fumbles recovered: 22
3. Defensive touchdowns: 2

 

[Finito]

Roger Wehrli (CB) RD:1 - pick 19

• Pro Football Hall of Fame
• College Football Hall of Fame

"The term ‘Shutdown Corner’ originated with Roger Wehrli. There wasn't a better cornerback I played against. He was a great, great defensive back. You had to be aware of him all the time.” Roger Staubach

• 7× Pro Bowl (1970, 1971, 1974–1977, 1979)
• 5× First-team All-Pro (1970, 1974–1977)
• Second-team All-Pro (1971)
• Arizona Cardinals Ring of Honor
• NFL 1970s All-Decade Team
• Consensus All-American (1968)

Career NFL statistics

1. Interceptions: 40
2. Fumbles recovered: 22
3. Defensive touchdowns: 2

lol

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Roger Wehrli (CB) RD:1 - pick 19

• Pro Football Hall of Fame
• College Football Hall of Fame

"The term ‘Shutdown Corner’ originated with Roger Wehrli. There wasn't a better cornerback I played against. He was a great, great defensive back. You had to be aware of him all the time.” Roger Staubach

• 7× Pro Bowl (1970, 1971, 1974–1977, 1979)
• 5× First-team All-Pro (1970, 1974–1977)
• Second-team All-Pro (1971)
• Arizona Cardinals Ring of Honor
• NFL 1970s All-Decade Team
• Consensus All-American (1968)

Career NFL statistics

1. Interceptions: 40
2. Fumbles recovered: 22
3. Defensive touchdowns: 2

Wehrli, Aeneas, AW. You could make arguments for all of them. I think PP is the best. Teams wouldn’t even look his direction. That’s going to hinder his stats. There’s a lot to be said for taking away a teams #1threat and that’s what he does and did it again last week.

 

[GuernseyCard]

lol

So the best of an era gets a lol....

OK fine!

 

[Finito]

So the best of an era gets a lol....

OK fine!

The 70s?

I’m sorry I just can’t