Why in the heck would you want to trade Jackson?
And don't get me started on CY.
And don't get me started on CY.
You're the Diamondbacks GM, what moves do you make this offseason?
- Thread starter Lefty
- Start date
DWKB
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DWKB
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nashman
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Thats just dumb SB player, our players are capable of that. And trading Jackson or Young would be insane why would you trade some of the best young players you have? Get a grip people Chad Tracy yeah he is expendable, Young and Jackson are not. Untouchables imho: Jackson, Drew, Webb, Harren, Upton, Young, Sherzer, Schneider everyone else could be had for the right price or deal. I threw Schneider in there because I love how he handles our pitchers and is a pretty damn good catcher/defender and decent hitter. Would love to resign Dunn as I think he fits with the team pretty well but he is going to be too expensive I think. We do need a big bat in the lineup if its not him gotta get someone else, a legitimate big bat not some slouch. I think Pena or Cruz could make a decent closer if their heads are right but Lyon has got to go, and Raucsh sucks ass ship him out too!
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
Cruz, yes. Pena -- 90 mph fast balls but a relatively low strikeout total, no.
As far as Rausch, he came with good closer credentials. Perhaps under a proven Pitching Coach, he'd return to form.
Even Lyon, if not used as closer, under a good Pitching coach could be a good 7th inning reliever.
I believe Qualls, Pena and Rausch all have the potential to be good closers if coached properly.
Is it a coincidence that when proven players comes to the D'backs, they fall apart?
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Really? Lets go through the check list:
1.) Hit for power: He's already shown he can do that at the MLB level
2.) Fielding: He's quite good and will get better
3.) Throwing: See above
4.) Speed/Baserunning: He's got speed, but has been a bit timid. He did steal 20 bags last year though
5.) Hitting for average: This is the only area where he hasn't produced yet.
So he's already shown more than glimpses of 4 of the 5 'tools', I don't see why its a lock that he won't ever be able to hit for average. Perhaps with different coaches/manager he would.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Or maybe he should speak with Drew or CoJack... they seem to know how to deal with the horrendous coaching...
He also might hit bettar if he knew where he was batting.Not having a consistent spot in the batting order has to be confusing. The leadoff batter certainly bats differently than the 3rd batter or the 5th batter or the 7th batter. I thought he did well when he was batting 7th.
BC867
Long time Phoenician!
Good point. The few position players who are strong enough to rise above our weak coaching do not get management off the hook for low grades in helping all of our young players reach their individual potential.Or maybe he should speak with Drew or CoJack... they seem to know how to deal with the horrendous coaching...
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Do you have any idea how many "future 5-tool" players with loads of potential, never reach whatever potential people thought they possessed?
It is far, far more that fail to reach "expectations" than those that do... It's a cop-out to simply hang these failures on coaching...
I think its a bit too early to say Chris Young is a 'failure' in any facet of his game, patience, its a virtue and all of that.
overseascardfan
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I'll get us back on topic.
1. Re-sign Webb
2. Either re-sign Dunn or try to sign or trade for Hank Blalock
3. Fix bullpen
4. Collect picks from Hudson, Lyon, Cruz, & Dunn if not re-signed and really make a killing in the draft, spare no expense to drafting and signing top young talent even if we have to overslot.
BTW, I like Young he may not hit for average but he does everything else well. But with that said, if we could get a major piece for him then maybe look into trading him and signing Rocco Baldelli who is an UFA.
1. Re-sign Webb
2. Either re-sign Dunn or try to sign or trade for Hank Blalock
3. Fix bullpen
4. Collect picks from Hudson, Lyon, Cruz, & Dunn if not re-signed and really make a killing in the draft, spare no expense to drafting and signing top young talent even if we have to overslot.
BTW, I like Young he may not hit for average but he does everything else well. But with that said, if we could get a major piece for him then maybe look into trading him and signing Rocco Baldelli who is an UFA.
Diamondback Jay
Psalms 23:1
All the crap you "Trade Young" proponents are spewing is the same (or related closely to) jibberish you were saying about Stephen Drew, Carlos Quentin and Conor Jackson last year.
I'm in the complete minority here, but there's not a closer in baseball I'd trade Young for. Not a single one. Furthermore, I'd only trade CY if he nets a "cannot refuse" offer. Granted, the Quentin deal only netted Arizona Chris Carter, however that Carter deal was the precursor to the Haren deal. Oakland wanted Carter from the start so...
Anyhow, my point, unless Arizona can get something like that via trade, they should not trade Young. Period.
I'm in the complete minority here, but there's not a closer in baseball I'd trade Young for. Not a single one. Furthermore, I'd only trade CY if he nets a "cannot refuse" offer. Granted, the Quentin deal only netted Arizona Chris Carter, however that Carter deal was the precursor to the Haren deal. Oakland wanted Carter from the start so...
Anyhow, my point, unless Arizona can get something like that via trade, they should not trade Young. Period.
DWKB
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Fair enough, the avg/obp is where I think he will constantly be lacking. Your list is very correct on the other 4, though.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
We've been down this road before... but... how many games did Young's power make a difference for us?
As a CF, it is simply a historical reality that power is far less important than batting average, OBP, defense and speed...
The D-backs have been trapped... I like CY. He's a great kid with tremendous athletic ability... However, his offense is all wrong for a CF... period... And the longer the D-backs continue to rely on a centerfielder for power, while sacrificing OBP and runs, the longer they will be an average team at best, with some of the best starting pitching in all of MLB...
FArting
Lopes Up!
1. Resign Webb
2. Sign Eckstein
3. Let Tracy sign with another team
4. Fire Bo Mel
2. Sign Eckstein
3. Let Tracy sign with another team
4. Fire Bo Mel
We've been down this road before... but... how many games did Young's power make a difference for us?
As a CF, it is simply a historical reality that power is far less important than batting average, OBP, defense and speed...
The D-backs have been trapped... I like CY. He's a great kid with tremendous athletic ability... However, his offense is all wrong for a CF... period... And the longer the D-backs continue to rely on a centerfielder for power, while sacrificing OBP and runs, the longer they will be an average team at best, with some of the best starting pitching in all of MLB...
How many times does this need to be explained to you:
Certain position players DO NOT need to do certain things at the plate. Its just coincidental due to the body types that play certain positions.
For instance, Mike Piazza hit for power much better than most every catcher, should teams that had him said "geez, Catchers aren't supposed to hit for power, we need to move him to first"? No. You're caught up in some false scenario where certain guys have to have a very specific skill set, and its silly.
As for how many games is power has helped us, I dunno, I'd say about 40 or however many games its been that he's homered in. Plus I'm sure he's had quite a few sac fly RBIs, due to his power.
Also, is there any reason to believe CY will continue to have an extremely low average and OBP? He didn't hit like that in the minors, so theres reason to believe his base hitting will improve.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Catchers have always been counted upon for power much more than centerfielders... not sure why you brought that up...
CY, when he had 400 at-bats or more in the minors, topped out at .277 in the minors... He had 3 years of 400 or more at bats in the minors. In single-A, he batter .261. In AA, he batted .277 and in AAA he batted .276. Not sure how that performance would make you believe we should expect anything more than what we've seen from the kid thus far in the bigs...
Anyway - you and I will never agree on this point... As I've said, I'd love to see Young reach his full potential. Hope it happens...
I wasn't comparing catchers to center fielders. I was comparing Mike Piazza's power numbers to other catchers.
Average is a pretty over rated metric, but I'm sure you'd agree hitting around 280, and being a Mike Cameron type of guy is quite a bit different from hitting .245.
If CY ends up hitting 20-30 HRs a year, stealing 20-30 bags, hitting around 280 and playing Gold Glove or near defense, I don't see why anyone should be disappointed. If thats not good enough just because you have some weird idea that CFs should hit 310+ or something, then I don't know what to tell you.
Desert Rat
Veteran
Hand in my immediate resignation.
Really? Josh Byrnes is widely recognized as one of the best young GMs in the league.
The impatience of our fans is ridiculous. I think last years unexpected success has really spoiled a lot of people. Before this season I thought the D'backs would probably have a sophomore slump as a team, and it turned out to be true. I think next year or perhaps the year after are the years we really need to focus our expectations on. This team is still quite young, has some defensive issues, and needs to get a few things sorted out before we're all enraged that they're not winning the pennant.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Dude... never said I wouldn't be happy with a centerfielder who hit 20-30 dingers and batter .280!
What I'm saying is that I have doubts about Young being able to hit .280 in the bigs... being able to get his OBP up to something respectable (for a centerfielder that would be .355 - .360 or above).
And I therefore believe the D-backs are falling prey to a trap situation...Like you, they see his tools and his power #'s and are willing to continue to roll the dice with him...
What they NEED to do is seek power #'s from 3B, 1B, LF & RF, and get a centerfielder in the more traditional model who can hit .280 - .300 with an OBP in the .360 or higher range, steal bases and play defense... Young seems to be preventing them from doing this which I was continue to say that as long as CY is the starting centerfielder, the D-backs are going to continue to struggle...
Would you be happy if we moved CY to LF and Conor to Center?
