YouTube: Game 3 foul mix

sunsfn

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They did not show the play I remember where Duncan hacked Nash like Horry did in this film. It was close to the basket and Eddie Rush was looking right at it just like the Horry call.

If Rush is not in on this, I will be very surprised with the calls he made in this game.
 

Sunsman44

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Yes, all indications point toward the fact that MORE refs are in on this mess.

One television report was speaking about the infamous KNICKS/BULLS contest in New York in which the Bulls were demolishing the Knicks and then Donaghy began calling some brutal fouls --- ended up that there was something like a 35 to 10 advantage on the free throws and the BULLS only won by 9 points instead of 20.

The report said it would be CRAZY if the other two refs were not in on it because this would surely raise eyebrows from his colleagues.

So yes, I think a handful of other people, including EDDIE RUSH, are in on this.

NBA better fix this or else Suns will be robbed again.
 

Joe Mama

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Actually it does make a difference going forward.

There has been a widespread belief that the Suns are doomed because it seems like the Spurs could simply physically dominate the Suns. But if the Spurs had lost Game 3 and still lost Game 4; then things might have been very different even if the Horry smash had not happened since there would have been a game 7 in Phoenix.

Winning the championship would have made a huge difference in how this team is evaluated now.

I wonder how long it will be before a San Antonio Spurs fan puts up a video of the calls that went against the Spurs and for the Phoenix Suns at the end of game 4. I didn't feel bad about it at all because of the way the officials had hosed the Phoenix Suns in the first 3 games and much of the way through game 4. However it definitely looked like somebody out there didn't want to see the songs go down 1-3 in that series. It look like there was an obvious swing in the officials' favor in the last few minutes including at least a couple phantom calls that went Phoenix's way.

Game 3 looks especially bad, but let's not forget that the San Antonio Spurs were essentially allowed to treat Steve Nash the same way all the way through that series. My hope is not that we'll all of a sudden see better officials in the NBA. That would be great, but it's unlikely.

No, my hope is that this will force the league to finally do a complete overhaul of the way games are officiated. A few years ago the league told the officials to stop allowing off the contact on the perimeter. That helped, but they need to remind the officials that those rules exist as the season goes on and especially at the beginning of the playoffs. That's when you want to put the best, most enjoyable basketball out there, and instead that's when the league decides to suddenly allow the ugly play again. It makes absolutely no sense.

The other thing the officials need to do is stop protecting the superstars. It's been going on far too long. The fear, of course, is that we'll have the league's most popular players sitting on the bench all the time. That might happen at first, but I believe, like the other rules, those star players will adjust. Most fans don't appreciate good defense anyhow, and that's really where the superstars will have to adjust their games.

They did not show the play I remember where Duncan hacked Nash like Horry did in this film. It was close to the basket and Eddie Rush was looking right at it just like the Horry call.

If Rush is not in on this, I will be very surprised with the calls he made in this game.

That's right. If Donaghy did fix Game 3, Eddie Rush was either in on it as well, or he was so bad he should have been disciplined. He was right there in perfect position time after time, yet he continuously made the wrong call/no call.

Joe
 

haverford

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Regarding protecting stars: it makes me wonder about the US futility in international tournaments of late. Perhaps, they are not only used to basketball played by slightly different rules, but thrown off by games called in a truly neutral fashion. Case in point is Tim Duncan and his inability to dominate internationally.
 

schutd

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DAMNIT! I had totally put this to bed in my brain, and now Im infuriated all over again. I hate the Spurs. I hate David Stern and I hate that officiating crew. Terrible jobs by everyone. Just terrible.
 

azirish

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The sad part about Game 3 is that the awful officiating may NOT have been due to a deliberate attempt to job the Suns. People who have analyzed the game videos are now saying it is general officiaitng incompetance.

That may be worse. If it was just one crooked ref, then there would be an easy solution. But if the refs are just incapable of calling the game without blowing a couple dozen calls, then the NBA really is in trouble.
 

SirStefan32

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The sad part about Game 3 is that the awful officiating may NOT have been due to a deliberate attempt to job the Suns. People who have analyzed the game videos are now saying it is general officiaitng incompetance.

That may be worse. If it was just one crooked ref, then there would be an easy solution. But if the refs are just incapable of calling the game without blowing a couple dozen calls, then the NBA really is in trouble.

I realize that officiating an NBA game is difficult. There are many calls that can go either way. However, these calls were not even close- not ONE of them was a close call. I don't know what refs were looking at, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what they saw on those plays. The most outrageous one is that blocking foul on Nash when he was just standing there and Duncan ran over him. He was STANDING STILL at least a foot outside of the circle. :bang:
 

azirish

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I realize that officiating an NBA game is difficult. There are many calls that can go either way. However, these calls were not even close- not ONE of them was a close call. I don't know what refs were looking at, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what they saw on those plays. The most outrageous one is that blocking foul on Nash when he was just standing there and Duncan ran over him. He was STANDING STILL at least a foot outside of the circle. :bang:

But it was Duncan. They aren't allowed to call fouls on Duncan. :sarcasm:

Duncan looked pretty ordinary on the USA Olympic team when referees did not give him star treatment.
 

haverford

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But it was Duncan. They aren't allowed to call fouls on Duncan. :sarcasm:

Duncan looked pretty ordinary on the USA Olympic team when referees did not give him star treatment.

Exactly my point upthread. Makes you wonder....
 

SASpursfan

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Regarding protecting stars: it makes me wonder about the US futility in international tournaments of late. Perhaps, they are not only used to basketball played by slightly different rules, but thrown off by games called in a truly neutral fashion. Case in point is Tim Duncan and his inability to dominate internationally.
The primary reason Duncan was not successful last time he played international ball was because how the US constructed their team. They chose to go with numerous one-on-one players who couldnt hit an outside shot. Thus, international teams clogged the middle and dared the US team to hit outside shots. That is why the US team went with a different selection process this time around. More role players were selected and players who were just outsiders shooters were now invited.

Duncan had very little reason to do with the US team not being succesful when he last played internation ball. It was the US selection committee's fault.
 

haverford

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The primary reason Duncan was not successful last time he played international ball was because how the US constructed their team. They chose to go with numerous one-on-one players who couldnt hit an outside shot. Thus, international teams clogged the middle and dared the US team to hit outside shots. That is why the US team went with a different selection process this time around. More role players were selected and players who were just outsiders shooters were now invited.

Duncan had very little reason to do with the US team not being succesful when he last played internation ball. It was the US selection committee's fault.

Defensively is where he lost his edge. Using quick but not definitive research, it appears Tim Duncan in the 2004 Olympics picked up fouls at about twice the rate he does in the NBA. His fouling was a surprise to him and Spurs fans, but not many others.....
 

SASpursfan

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Defensively is where he lost his edge. Using quick but not definitive research, it appears Tim Duncan in the 2004 Olympics picked up fouls at about twice the rate he does in the NBA. His fouling was a surprise to him and Spurs fans, but not many others.....


Well he was playing on a different defensive team, or lack of, where players were trying to make steals or getting to run back on offense rather than play defense for the entire possession. Thus, he had was forced to play out of position because the his teamates didnt know how to play proper defense. And thats been one of the biggest problems the US team has had in recent years. They think their superior atheleticism makes them them the best players in the world, unfortunately they dont play the best team ball.
Ive really havent been a fan of US international play because of how the US team ' baller' attitutude. When it comes to international play, I would much rather watch the Argentinian national team play.
 

azirish

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Defensively is where he lost his edge. Using quick but not definitive research, it appears Tim Duncan in the 2004 Olympics picked up fouls at about twice the rate he does in the NBA. His fouling was a surprise to him and Spurs fans, but not many others.....

Tim never gets "ticky tacks" call on him compared to other bigs. He's very good, but it is a huge advantage over the course of a game that he rarely has to worry about getting into foul trouble.

Another problem Duncan had in the Olympics is that some of his low post moves involve changing his pivot foot. NBA refs simply won't call that, but international refs don't know he's supposed to be allowed to do that.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Tim never gets "ticky tacks" call on him compared to other bigs. He's very good, but it is a huge advantage over the course of a game that he rarely has to worry about getting into foul trouble.

Another problem Duncan had in the Olympics is that some of his low post moves involve changing his pivot foot. NBA refs simply won't call that, but international refs don't know he's supposed to be allowed to do that.

Uh..... you can't change pivot feet unless you are dribbling the ball, and then you aren't really pivoting.

That is, unless I missed the implied sarcasm.
 

nowagimp

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Defensively is where he lost his edge. Using quick but not definitive research, it appears Tim Duncan in the 2004 Olympics picked up fouls at about twice the rate he does in the NBA. His fouling was a surprise to him and Spurs fans, but not many others.....

Tim Duncan(and many other bigs) lives on no calls in the NBA. Tim Duncan couldnt guard amare at the elbow if his life depended on it, he doesnt have the quickness. With the proper physical help D banging amare on the way to the hoop, he is sufficiently slowed so duncan can be the last guy he faces. Duncan rarely gets a body contact foul inside the circle under the hoop, inspite of his hopless legs. He's invisible down there, apparently. On offense, Duncan needs to create space for his excellent bank shot, since he cant shoot over many big defenders(no hops). When he's covered tightly, he trys to bang a guy off the dribble and jump into him to get the foul. The intl refs dont call that one much. Frankly I'm not as impressed with Tim Duncan today, he was much better in an all-time sense 4-5 years ago before he slowed down.

The superstar treatments the NBA refs give many players, gives them delusions regarding their own true skill level. The NBA doesnt want the suns to win against established winning formulas, because it would prove the euros right, that teams win games and superstars sell tickets, but can drag down the overall level of play.
 

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