Zarko

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Ill post it up if I get a reply.

Well this is the reply I got:

Andy,

Thank you for contacting the Phoenix Suns and for your support of Zarko!
GREAT IDEA! Here is a good address to send those letters of support:

Phoenix Suns - AWA
Attn: Zarko Cabarkapa
201 E. Jefferson St
Phoenix, AZ 85004

You can also email letters to the following: [email protected]

Have a great day and GO SUNS!

Kurt Pollex
Phoenix Suns
Customer Relations Manager

 

[capologist]

Originally posted by SirChaz
The league can only punish someone for the action not the outcome.

I disagree. When you act with such reckless disregard for somebody else's safety, you are responsible for the outcome.

In another thread, I use the analogy of a drunk driver. Idiot #1 drives drunk, runs a red light, and gets pulled over and arrested. Idiot #2 drives drunk, runs a red light, and kills somebody who unfortunately happens to enter the intersection at the same time. The actions are the same, the outcomes are very different, and Idiot #2 is responsible for the unfortunate outcome in his case.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by capologist
I disagree. When you act with such reckless disregard for somebody else's safety, you are responsible for the outcome.

In another thread, I use the analogy of a drunk driver. Idiot #1 drives drunk, runs a red light, and gets pulled over and arrested. Idiot #2 drives drunk, runs a red light, and kills somebody who unfortunately happens to enter the intersection at the same time. The actions are the same, the outcomes are very different, and Idiot #2 is responsible for the unfortunate outcome in his case.

Was Danny Fortson even drinking?

Joe Mama

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by SirChaz
If Fortson had done that and Zarko took a fall and didn't suffer an injury would people still be calling for 15 games or 6-8 week suspension?

But he did . . . and he did. You push someone with two hands while he is in the air, you're asking for trouble.

The league can either discourage it or not. Apparently, they have spoken. The answer is "not".

Now it's up to the players to react to someone who's gone over the line.

 

[Joe Mama]

I was just watching the NBA Shootaround on ESPN. They were all saying it was an adequate punishment, and it was the maximum allowed under the CBA. Bill Laimbeer even said, "it's not like he slammed him to the ground, and Cabarkapa shouldn't have been trying to dunk on him like that in a blowout win."

On a side note Stephen A. Smith should be taken out into the streets and beaten for being as obnoxious as he is on that show. Every time I tried to watch the ESPN NBA Shootaround I end up changing the channel because of him. If he was on the TNT show Charles Barkley would have killed him already.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by capologist
I disagree. When you act with such reckless disregard for somebody else's safety, you are responsible for the outcome.

In another thread, I use the analogy of a drunk driver. Idiot #1 drives drunk, runs a red light, and gets pulled over and arrested. Idiot #2 drives drunk, runs a red light, and kills somebody who unfortunately happens to enter the intersection at the same time. The actions are the same, the outcomes are very different, and Idiot #2 is responsible for the unfortunate outcome in his case.

That is not really a good analogy. If a drunk driver killes somone the do not get punished more for the DWI, but they may be charged with additional charges like manslaughter or 3rd degree murder.

Also I was talking about the specific instance of the NBA.
Fortson's play was completely wrong and stupid. I don't believe it was malicous.



Dammit, you people have me defending this jerk.

 

[matt_whitlock]

Dammit, you people have me defending this jerk.

See that's the thing. The guy is a jerk. Tom Gugliota would never do that. Zarko Carbarkapa would never do that.

However, you can't really punish a guy for being a mean person. Likewise, the fact that Zarko seems like one of the nicest guys in the world doesn't really matter either. The NBA sees it as an isolated incident, where Fortson was pissed off and pushed a guy. It doesn't even really matter that Zarko happened to be airborn at the time.

I personally think Marbury, Amare, Jahidi White, and Tom Gugliota should go over to Fortson's house, hold him down, hold his wrist out, and let David Stern bash both his wrists with a cro bar. It's not about the Dallas Mavericks; they probably won't mind too much that Fortson is out. However, Fortson would then feel what Zarko went through, the Mavericks would go on relatively unharmed, and justice would be served.

But it still wouldn't bring Zarko back.

 

[jbeecham]

Some good news:

Suns Displeased with Fortson Suspension


By Steven Koek, Suns.com
Posted: Nov. 28, 2003

Two days have done little to diminish the anger from the Suns' organization after a vicious foul from the Mavericks' Danny Fortson on Wednesday night left Suns rookie Zarko Cabarkapa out of action for the next four to six weeks with a broken wrist.

The NBA levied a three-game suspension on Fortson on Friday after he pushed Cabarkapa in mid-air on a breakaway opportunity in the fourth quarter of the Phoenix's 121-90 victory over Dallas. The decision left Suns Chairman Jerry Colangelo considering all options, from legal action to lobbying for a change in the league’s policy regarding punishment for flagrant fouls that cause personal injuries, and left “Z’s” teammates disappointed that the punishment did not nearly fit the crime.

“I thought he was going to get five games,” All-Star guard Stephon Marbury said before Friday night’s contest with the Warriors. “All I know is he could have killed that kid. If his legs would have went under him, he could have fell on his neck. I ain’t never seen nobody get pushed out of the air like that, literally when somebody jumped for a dunk and (was) pushed. I’ve never seen that.”

Forward Amaré Stoudemire, about as physical a player as there is in the league, thought Fortson’s action went well beyond the bounds of fair play.

“For a guy to just push a guy in the air like that, that’s not even close to being a basketball-type play,” last season’s Rookie of the Year said. “That’s almost a career-ending happening. It is shocking.”

Stoudemire has been known to make the hard foul when it is called for, but said this was clearly not one of those cases.

“I’m not going to push him out of the air, not when a guy already took flight,” he said. “I’m probably going to grab his arm or something to just make sure he doesn’t get the shot off, but I’m not going to just push him two hands with his arms extended in the air like that. That’s one of the worst (flagrant fouls) I’ve seen.”

In his nearly four decades in the game of basketball, Colangelo has seen it all, but was still visibly upset about Wednesday’s incident, as well as the resulting penalty handed down by the league.

“I’ve seen a lot of bad injuries, but this was intentional,” he said. “This was to put the guy down and it resulted in a broken wrist. In the heat of battle a lot of things can happen. This was different. This is no compensation, to put on a Dallas game (after the three-game suspension is complete) and see him in uniform playing, while our guy is down for six to eight weeks. That’s unthinkable in my mind. It just isn’t right and we’re going to try to get it fixed.”

As is usually the case, the Suns' CEO, and one of the most influential owners in all of sports, will not wait long to do what he can to make things right.

“I am very seriously considering Monday morning looking at two possible remedies,” he said. “One is legal action. And number two is getting something changed in the NBA. I will push for this and I am hopeful that there is support within the league in terms of ownership.

“When a player goes down on a flagrant foul and he is put out of commission for any period of time, in this case six to eight weeks, I think the offender should be down and out for the same amount of time and the team that was offended should be compensated. I will do whatever I can to have some change and some remedy. This is not personal. This is what I believe has to happen. It’s just wrong. Flat-out wrong.”

Colangelo would not expand on the potential legal options against Fortson personally. However, he did reveal what his first step would be when the work week resumed after the long holiday weekend.

“Monday morning, I can tell (NBA Commissioner) David (Stern), ‘I want a special Board of Governors meeting to discuss this issue,’” Colangelo said. “It’s important enough in my opinion, not just because it’s me. I’m just saying the incident itself is so ugly. It has no place in our game.”

If there is any sliver of good news, it is that the injury itself could have been worse. Suns physician Dr. Thomas Carter expressed relief that the injury did not damage the joint in the wrist, which could have potentially had long-term effects on the shooting hand of the 6-11 Serbian forward.

“You always run the risk of some stiffness,” Carter said. “The good prognostic indicator is that it did not involve his joint and there was no displacement. That’s what we look for to see if there is going to be a long-term problem and none of that is present. So that’s the best news.”

Nothing about this incident was good news to Cabarkapa, who sat dejectedly at his locker before Friday night’s contest. After moving across the world to fulfill his dream of playing in the NBA and having to miss most of training camp and the preseason recovering from hernia surgery, the 17th overall pick in the 2003 NBA Draft was just starting to hit his stride. Now he will be out until mid-January.

“Not happy, but what can I do now?” he asked. “I can just work and I can run now, and ride the bike, and what I can do I will do.”

Cabarkapa was not concerned about the punishment at this point and realized this latest setback is not the end of the world or the end of his career. Thankfully.

“I don’t care, because I can play in six weeks. I don’t care what happens with this guy. (But) I don’t understand why he pushed me.”

“This is our career,” Stoudemire said while shaking his head in disbelief. “We’re not trying to end nobody’s career out here, we’re just trying to play ball, have fun, (and) call it a night. This guy’s out for six to eight weeks. He had no control over it. He was just doing a basketball play. It’s brutal.”

I'm not sure if it is accurate, but this article says Zarko will be out 4-6 weeks and I've also seen the injury called a fracture rather than a break. It is also good that there was no joint damage so hopefully it won't affect him long term. I also like his work ethic.

 

[capologist]

Originally posted by SirChaz
That is not really a good analogy. If a drunk driver killes somone the do not get punished more for the DWI, but they may be charged with additional charges like manslaughter or 3rd degree murder.

Yes, that's exactly the point. He is criminally liable for manslaughter or murder (depending on the state) because he acted with reckless disregard for the public safety, and his reckless conduct directly and forseeably resulted in somebody's death. If you drive drunk and are lucky enough not to kill somebody, you don't get charged with manslaughter, but if you do kill somebody, you do get charged with manslaughter.

Another familiar example is Jayson Williams, who is on trial for manslaughter after recklessly fooling around with a shotgun and accidentally killing somebody. If he hadn't killed somebody, he wouldn't be on trial for manslaughter, but he did, so he is.

Same thing here. If Zarko hadn't been injured, then Fortson would not be responsible for the injury that didn't happen. But Zarko did get injured, so Fortson should be held responsible for the injury.

An important point is that this was not some kind of freak accident that couldn't have been prevented. What Fortson did was extremely dangerous, and serious injury was a reasonably forseeable outcome of such conduct. It's therefore his responsibility if that injury happens.

 

[Joe Mama]

Cap, I can see your point, and part of me agrees with that. However since you are excluding this incident with the criminal justice system you seem to be forgetting all of the cases were something like this results in a slap on the wrist. The reason they are going after Williams so hard is that he tried to cover up the whole thing. If he had just reported it as an accident he might, might have been charged involuntary manslaughter or negligent homicide. They might not have even done that.

A three-game suspension might be considered the NBA equivalent punishment for something like involuntary manslaughter. Who knows? It's difficult to make a direct comparison.

I do not like the idea of Jerry Colangelo pursuing this in a court of law. It was a bad, reckless play, but I certainly didn't look to me like Fortson was trying to hurt Zarko. I mean what's next? Are we going to charge people for assault when they get in a fight? Legal action could certainly ruin the game of hockey (not that I would care much about that).

Even if Jerry Colangelo gets something done with the owners on this, what are the chances that the players association will sign off on it?

Joe Mama

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Cap, I can see your point, and part of me agrees with that. However since you are excluding this incident with the criminal justice system you seem to be forgetting all of the cases were something like this results in a slap on the wrist. The reason they are going after Williams so hard is that he tried to cover up the whole thing. If he had just reported it as an accident he might, might have been charged involuntary manslaughter or negligent homicide. They might not have even done that.

A three-game suspension might be considered the NBA equivalent punishment for something like involuntary manslaughter. Who knows? It's difficult to make a direct comparison.

I do not like the idea of Jerry Colangelo pursuing this in a court of law. It was a bad, reckless play, but I certainly didn't look to me like Fortson was trying to hurt Zarko. I mean what's next? Are we going to charge people for assault when they get in a fight? Legal action could certainly ruin the game of hockey (not that I would care much about that).

Even if Jerry Colangelo gets something done with the owners on this, what are the chances that the players association will sign off on it?

Joe Mama

I can't remember who it was exactly, but a player HAS been taken to court for his actions on the ice in Hockey. I couldn't care any less about Hockey, but the precedent has been set.

But in that instance, the player was hit with a hockey stick, so the circumstances were quite different.

 

[jbeecham]

I think the players would sign off on something like Colangelo is proposing. It's really in thier best intrests because none of them should want to get seriously injured by reckless players like Fortson. I think Colangelo is only going after players that do something like Fortson did, like push a player in mid-air with both of your arms extended into his waist and then the mid-air player gets injured. That kind of thing should not happen in the NBA and when it does it should be punished visciously. Players that do this have no regard for the health of the other player.

 

[JJ Slim]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
Are we going to charge people for assault when they get in a fight?

Sure, why not? A fight is a fight. So what if it is during the heat of a game. You don't think that if during a heated discussion over work related issues in a regular workplace that if someone came to blows that charges wouldn't be filed on top of probably being fired?

And I agree that the CBA is probably going to be JC's biggest hurdle.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I can't remember who it was exactly, but a player HAS been taken to court for his actions on the ice in Hockey. I couldn't care any less about Hockey, but the precedent has been set.

But in that instance, the player was hit with a hockey stick, so the circumstances were quite different.

If I'm remembering correctly that was a case where one player just smacked another player upside the head with his hockey stick. Like I said, I would have no problem with going after Fortson in a criminal or civil court if he had been intentionally trying to hurt Cabarkapa.

Joe Mama

 

[jbeecham]

That's the thing.....I would guess that 4/5 times that that play happens the person who is pushed in mid-air does get hurt and is out a number of games. So why shouldn't it be looked at as intentionally trying to hurt someone. There probably hasn't even been a case where a guy was pushed like that and just got right back up and kept playing. I think it should be seen as intentionally trying to injure a player.

 

[Joe Mama]

I really liked away Marc Cuban has approached this whole thing. He understands that Jerry Colangelo is upset, and that if the tables were turned he would likely act the same way. - Joe



Fortson punished for foul
By Dwain Price
Star-Telegram Staff Writer


DENVER - Shortly after being suspended by the NBA for three games without pay for a flagrant-2 foul against Phoenix Suns center Zarko Cabarkapa on Wednesday, Mavericks center Danny Fortson was walking through the team's Denver hotel talking on his cell phone.

Needless to say, Fortson was not in a good mood. And not just because of the $208,240 he's losing because of the three-game suspension -- $66,080 per game.

The seven-year veteran has a bone to pick with Suns owner Jerry Colangelo, who called Fortson a "thug" and added that "he's always been a thug" after the incident, which caused a fracture to Cabarkapa's right wrist.

"The owner made a big deal out of it," Fortson said Friday. "He really blew it out of proportion, as far as attacking my character.

"You might say he crossed the line, too. He crossed the line a little bit, just as much as I did. I've got people in my family, and they don't need to hear that."

Coach Don Nelson -- who has said "there is no place" in the game for the foul Fortson committed -- defended his player against Colangelo's comments.

"I don't think he knows Danny Fortson," Nelson said. "Danny Fortson is not a thug.

"He's a physical player. He makes poor decisions sometimes. He plays hard, but he's not a thug."

While several of the Mavs coaches were not pleased with Colangelo's words, owner Mark Cuban chose to take the high road.

"Maybe that wasn't appropriate," Cuban said of Colangelo's use of the word thug. "But I can understand because he was upset and he was standing up for his players.

"We're not going to make an issue out of it. If I was in the same position, I might have done the same thing."

Fortson said he's curious to see if the NBA takes any action against Colangelo for what Fortson deems an attack on his character.

In addition to Friday's game at Denver, Forston must sit out home games tonight against Minnesota and Tuesday against Washington. He would be available to play Thursday against the Los Angeles Lakers at American Airlines Center.

"It was a bad play, I admit that," Fortson said. "I really didn't mean to hurt the guy, but who's going to believe that?

"I'm just trying to play hard. At the same time when you play hard, you can make mistakes and look like you're trying to do something intentional. It's a bad deal, but I've committed fouls harder than that."

 

[George O'Brien]

Bill Laimbeer even said, "it's not like he slammed him to the ground, and Cabarkapa shouldn't have been trying to dunk on him like that in a blowout win."

I suspect that we could find worse done by Bill "Foul, what foul" Laimbeer in his Bad Boy Pistons days. But the fact that a rookie is doing what he was hired to do does not give a player the right to commit criminal assault even if it was due to negligence.