Ayton 7th Best Center Entering The Season

[Covert Rain]

Honestly. I will take it considering how much time this guys has missed. In a field of 30 that is nothing to scoff at either. He is young, still learning and improving.

"Tim Duncan, Blake Griffin, Shaquille O'Neal and Towns are the only players in league history to match or exceed his career averages for points (17.1) and rebounds (10.8) through an age-21 season."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2888735-ranking-nbas-top-15-centers-this-season

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton has a bit of catching up to do. Here are the comparisons side-by-side.

https://www.basketball-reference.co...player_id5=townska01&idx=bbr__players&y5=2017

 

[Hoop Head]

Honestly. I will take it considering how much time this guys has missed. In a field of 30 that is nothing to scoff at either. He is young, still learning and improving.

"Tim Duncan, Blake Griffin, Shaquille O'Neal and Towns are the only players in league history to match or exceed his career averages for points (17.1) and rebounds (10.8) through an age-21 season."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2888735-ranking-nbas-top-15-centers-this-season

For comparison sake, Anthony Davis was averaging 19.7 ppg & 9.5 rbg at that point. I thought it was odd he wasn't listed so I looked up his stats. He's short on the boards but over on the points. Here are the stats comparing the 2 through age 21 seasons.

http://bkref.com/tiny/Pn8g0

 

[Covert Rain]

For comparison sake, Anthony Davis was averaging 19.7 ppg & 9.5 rbg at that point. I thought it was odd he wasn't listed so I looked up his stats. He's short on the boards but over on the points. Here are the stats comparing the 2 through age 21 seasons.

http://bkref.com/tiny/Pn8g0

It’s no small feat even if you add one person.

 

[Mainstreet]

I added Anthony Davis to the player comparisons.

https://www.basketball-reference.co...player_id6=davisan02&idx=bbr__players&y6=2015

 

[Yuma]

Wilt didn't enter the league until he was 23, so all these under 21 stats are meaningless when these guys hit age 23!

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[Mainstreet]

@Yuma

The player comparison finder can be adjusted for age.

For example we can compare Shaq, Tim Duncan and Wilt at age 23 or any NBA player at that age.

http://bkref.com/tiny/WT95p

 

[Yuma]

@Yuma

The player comparison finder can be adjusted for age.

For example we can compare Shaq, Tim Duncan and Wilt at age 23 or any NBA player at that age.

http://bkref.com/tiny/WT95p

The 67-68 season he told Reporters he would lead the league isn assists, and averaged 23.8 reounds, 8.6 assists, and 24.3 points a game, was a monstrous season! He averaged 41.5 points in the playoffs for Philly! One year he averaged 50.4 points a game! One year in Philly, Wilt was able to get a team of decent players and they CRUSHED the teams they met in the playoffs. Unfortunately players left and retired after that season. Bill Russell should get his due for the number of rings he won. However, put Wilt on Boston, watch out! I always say Russell would not have been able to win a ring on the Philly teams that Wilt played on. Wilt managed to drag them to a title. He is really an underated former player when people bring up all time teams, etc.

 

[Mainstreet]

The 67-68 season he told Reporters he would lead the league isn assists, and averaged 23.8 reounds, 8.6 assists, and 24.3 points a game, was a monstrous season! He averaged 41.5 points in the playoffs for Philly! One year he averaged 50.4 points a game! One year in Philly, Wilt was able to get a team of decent players and they CRUSHED the teams they met in the playoffs. Unfortunately players left and retired after that season. Bill Russell should get his due for the number of rings he won. However, put Wilt on Boston, watch out! I always say Russell would not have been able to win a ring on the Philly teams that Wilt played on. Wilt managed to drag them to a title. He is really an underated former player when people bring up all time teams, etc.

Wilt is underrated for sure but I don't think it's intentional.

Most people simply never had the opportunity to watch him play. Of course the same can be said about Bill Russell, but like you said, he has all those championships for a legacy. Russell had tremendous talent around him but defense was his calling card which helped his reputation as a team player.

Wilt doesn't take a backseat to anyone. I wouldn't want to argue against him being the best player of all time.

 

[BC867]

Wilt is underrated for sure but I don't think it's intentional.

Most people simply never had the opportunity to watch him play. Of course the same can be said about Bill Russell, but like you said, he has all those championships for a legacy. Russell had tremendous talent around him but defense was his calling card which helped his reputation as a team player.

Wilt doesn't take a backseat to anyone. I wouldn't want to argue against him being the best player of all time.

Especially when you consider the stats of the rest of the Centers (and all players) during that period.

But many fans say All Time, but mean in their personal experience.

Of course, for some of us, Wilt's tenure was our personal experience.

That being said, Wilt was the best player in terms of stats, but Russ was the Most Valuable.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Wilt is underrated for sure but I don't think it's intentional.

Most people simply never had the opportunity to watch him play. Of course the same can be said about Bill Russell, but like you said, he has all those championships for a legacy. Russell had tremendous talent around him but defense was his calling card which helped his reputation as a team player.

Wilt doesn't take a backseat to anyone. I wouldn't want to argue against him being the best player of all time.

He is my vote. He would dominate the league today.

 

[Finito]

Put Wilt on those stacked Celtics teams they win just as many championships.

 

[Bobster]

I caught the tail end of Wilt's career when he was with the Lakers and not as interested in scoring (although he threw in an occasional 60-point game to prove a point) and I can only tell you this - there are four athletes that the opponents were in awe of and they never wanted to poke the bear and make them mad. Wilt, Jim Brown, Michael Jordan and Babe Ruth.

Shaq could have been one, Bo Jackson could have been one, but I can't think of anyone beyond that. (Wayne Gretzky just looked to normal and did things with guile, which may be even more impressive).

Wilt could obviously score and rebound, but his defense and passing are underrated. Playing for Eddie Gottlieb's team may have hurt him in the long run - Gottlieb was into the star system and wanted Wilt to score as much as he could, which fed into Wilt's enormous ego and probably wasn't the best way to build a championship contender.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I caught the tail end of Wilt's career when he was with the Lakers and not as interested in scoring (although he threw in an occasional 60-point game to prove a point) and I can only tell you this - there are four athletes that the opponents were in awe of and they never wanted to poke the bear and make them mad. Wilt, Jim Brown, Michael Jordan and Babe Ruth.

Shaq could have been one, Bo Jackson could have been one, but I can't think of anyone beyond that. (Wayne Gretzky just looked to normal and did things with guile, which may be even more impressive).

Wilt could obviously score and rebound, but his defense and passing are underrated. Playing for Eddie Gottlieb's team may have hurt him in the long run - Gottlieb was into the star system and wanted Wilt to score as much as he could, which fed into Wilt's enormous ego and probably wasn't the best way to build a championship contender.

I agree but I would nitpick and say that while Shaq could have been one, Bo Jackson WOULD have been one. I'd also add Tiger Woods to the list of athletes that were on a different plane. And I'd put Reggie Jackson in the Shaq category, could have been in that group had he wanted to be.

But Wilt was unique IMO. He was the best player on the court even when he was mailing it in, he was otherworldly when he was motivated.

 

[GatorAZ]

Wilt was the most incredible scorer in the history of the league. He also put the ball thru the hoop quite a bit.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Wilt was the most incredible scorer in the history of the league. He also put the ball thru the hoop quite a bit.

I'm sure you're just having fun here but in addition to his incredible scoring he also averaged over 27 rebounds for the 61 season, had 8.6 assists for the 68 season, shot 17 free throws per game in the 62 season and shot almost 73% from the field in his final year. Blocks and steals weren't counted then otherwise he'd have big seasons in those areas too.

In basketball there really was no limit to what he could do when he chose to do it. Of course his most impressive career spanning record was that he reportedly slept with more than 20,000 different women during his 14 seasons. That averages out to roughly 4 unique sex partners per day. Ouch and Wow.

 

[Hoop Head]

Not to diminish Wilt's accomplishments but there is a reason he's not talked about as the GOAT very often. He was dominant, no doubt, and I think it's safe to say he'd be dominant in any era but if he played in more current times then he wouldn't be scoring 40-50 ppg like he did during his scoring peak. One thing rarely mentioned is how he averaged 48.5 minutes a game during the season he scored 50.4 ppg. He averaged 46.6 minutes a game through his first 10 seasons and never played less than 42 minutes a game during his career.

I saw this article the other day that tries to surmise the greatest scoring season in league history. Here's a snippet about Wilt...

One of the most accurate ways of comparing stats across eras is by adjusting for pace, or possessions per game. This is because it allows players an equal opportunity to score, as someone who’s involved in more possessions would have more chances to put up points. Nowadays, most teams average about 100 possessions each game while the top players are involved in about 75 of them. The 1961-62 Philadelphia Warriors, on the other hand, played an estimated 131 possessions per game. Furthermore, Wilt averaged over 48 minutes each night, which means that he was a part of all 131 possessions during each match.


If we adjust Wilt’s 131 possessions played down to 75, his scoring average also takes a tumble. He would average less than 29 points each game instead of 50, which is a much more reasonable number. It’s unfair to punish him for playing in an era with a faster tempo, but adjusting for pace seems to be the best way of evaluating stats.

Again, not saying Wilt wasn't amazing, he was, but I think it's really difficult to compare players from various eras due to a number of factors. You have the shot clock, 3 point line, ABA/NBA merger, hand checking, and many other things that changed the league dramatically. He shouldn't be punished for playing 48 minutes a game but it should be noted that he was playing in roughly 10 minutes more a game than most everyone else.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree Wilt played played in a different era but he has to be considered one of the all-time greats. Today's NBA game is totally different.

Besides scoring, I'm still in awe of Wilt's ability to rebound. He averaged 22.9 rebounds for his career besides averaging 30.1 points.

Playing more minutes cuts both ways. It may have shortened his career.

 

[Mainstreet]

I found this head-to-head comparison of Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell, two of the greats in that era.

http://bkref.com/tiny/jIxtX

 

[Yuma]

In basketball there really was no limit to what he could do when he chose to do it. Of course his most impressive career spanning record was that he reportedly slept with more than 20,000 different women during his 14 seasons. That averages out to roughly 4 unique sex partners per day. Ouch and Wow.

A reporter did the math like you did and his tone was incredulous. Wilt replied that he didn't always sleep with just one woman at a time!

 

[Yuma]

I agree Wilt played played in a different era but he has to be considered one of the all-time greats. Today's NBA game is totally different.

Besides scoring, I'm still in awe of Wilt's ability to rebound. He averaged 22.9 rebounds for his career besides averaging 30.1 points.

Playing more minutes cuts both ways. It may have shortened his career.

I really think it was the one two punch of being bored in LA playing behind Kareem. The Suns tried to sign him after he retired, but the Lakers had one more year left of his rights and refused to waive them. Collangelo supposedly had a verbal agreement with Wilt to play for the Suns.

He continued to play pro volleyball for a number of years after his retirement.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is a video comparison of Wilt Chamberlain versus Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

I think fans will better remember Kareem's game.

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[Mainstreet]

I really think it was the one two punch of being bored in LA playing behind Kareem. The Suns tried to sign him after he retired, but the Lakers had one more year left of his rights and refused to waive them. Collangelo supposedly had a verbal agreement with Wilt to play for the Suns.

He continued to play pro volleyball for a number of years after his retirement.

That would have been fun if Wilt were a Sun. It's hard to imagine Wilt playing behind anyone.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That would have been fun if Wilt were a Sun. It's hard to imagine Wilt playing behind anyone.

I don't believe he was second string so much as he was losing interest in playing and the second coming was already in place. We've talked about it here before but for many years after Wilt retired he reportedly dominated prime Kareem and everyone else in their summer pickup games.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't believe he was second string so much as he was losing interest in playing and the second coming was already in place. We've talked about it here before but for many years after Wilt retired he reportedly dominated prime Kareem and everyone else in their summer pickup games.

IMO, Kareem was the forerunner of the modern day center and Alvin Adams was a part of that. About all they needed was a 3-point shot.