Suns sign Tyus Jones

[Covert Rain]

Not remotely comparable.

The odds of us winning a title are very small, the odds of us being really, really bad towards the end of the decade are very high. That is the math here to put this in play for being an all-time disaster trade.

You are simply wrong. The chances of a pick being franchise player like Tatum are huge. Especially, outside the top 2 or 3 picks assuming they are even that high. I have posted those odds on the forum before.

Also, if you think Ishbia, even if he blows this up is going to let the team drop down to that territory? You have not been paying attention.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not remotely comparable.

The odds of us winning a title are very small, the odds of us being really, really bad towards the end of the decade are very high. That is the math here to put this in play for being an all-time disaster trade.

Agreed. I actually don't believe it will go this way though. IMO it was a very stupid overpayment but Ish isn't Robert Sarver, he's smart enough to realize he screwed up. But he's shown himself willing to spend money, to take risks in order to build a great program so I'm hopeful that our miserable years can be kept to a minimum.

But there are fans who apparently still believe giving the Nets everything it wanted was a well-thought-out move and if Ish thinks that same way, that's a huge concern going forward IMO. Personally, I still believe it was IT that made the decision and he's the sole reason Ish rushed into the move rather than playing hardball for the hours remaining on the trade clock.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If we’re in the year 2030, in the middle of our third or fourth straight year as a bottom five team, and we’re sending out yet another top pick the Nets… I don’t think looking back on Durant averaging 27 a game for a couple seasons on a non-contender will cheer us up.

Honestly, if we’re in the bottom of the league from 27-30, it will be more of an indictment on Booker and his inability to get anyone to play here post KD/Beal than anything else.

You act like the Suns will powerless to do anything once they have huge amounts of cap space… and more picks to burn because we’ll be that much forward in time where more picks can be conveyed.

 

[Chaplin]

If we’re in the year 2030, in the middle of our third or fourth straight year as a bottom five team, and we’re sending out yet another top pick the Nets… I don’t think looking back on Durant averaging 27 a game for a couple seasons on a non-contender will cheer us up.

Except that hasn't happened yet. You may be expecting it to for whatever reason, but that's still a leap. You want to wallow in your depression for the next 6 years, be my guest.

 

[Chaplin]

Honestly, if we’re in the bottom of the league from 27-30, it will be more of an indictment on Booker and his inability to get anyone to play here post KD/Beal than anything else.

You act like the Suns will powerless to do anything once they have huge amounts of cap space… and more picks to burn because we’ll be that much forward in time where more picks can be conveyed.

Right. There are so many different things that can happen, it's hard to even pinpoint a single thing.

Who here thought we would sign who we did last year, let alone this year, with us being under the 2nd apron? It's pretty hilarious when we are all "woe is me" at the beginning of the offseason, but 2 years in a row we have been pleasantly surprised about just what is possible. Granted, last year didn't work out, but there was some surprise optimism last year at this time based on what we were able to do. And we're seeing it again here, except for the couple people that just can't get over the KD trade. It is what it is, you either enjoy the ride with a top 10 player in history, or you don't.

 

[Phrazbit]

You are simply wrong. The chances of a pick being franchise player like Tatum are huge. Especially, outside the top 2 or 3 picks assuming they are even that high. I have posted those odds on the forum before.

Also, if you think Ishbia, even if he blows this up is going to let the team drop down to that territory? You have not been paying attention.

If we're sending out picks that high, then it doesn't really matter what the result of the pick is, the mere fact that we're THAT bad, for a few years straight, and not even getting to draft... that is all time disaster stuff.

 

[Covert Rain]

If we're sending out picks that high, then it doesn't really matter what the result of the pick is, the mere fact that we're THAT bad, for a few years straight, and not even getting to draft... that is all time disaster stuff.

It's really not. Every team goes through a downturn no matter where they draft. Through first 6 Picks in NBA draft.

 

[Phrazbit]

Honestly, if we’re in the bottom of the league from 27-30, it will be more of an indictment on Booker and his inability to get anyone to play here post KD/Beal than anything else.

You act like the Suns will powerless to do anything once they have huge amounts of cap space… and more picks to burn because we’ll be that much forward in time where more picks can be conveyed.

Oh please... what is Booker supposed to do about being on a capped out roster with no assets (other than himself) and no picks? I am sure dudes around the league will be dying to get him to come join THEM.

 

[Chaplin]

Agreed. I actually don't believe it will go this way though. IMO it was a very stupid overpayment but Ish isn't Robert Sarver, he's smart enough to realize he screwed up. But he's shown himself willing to spend money, to take risks in order to build a great program so I'm hopeful that our miserable years can be kept to a minimum.

But there are fans who apparently still believe giving the Nets everything it wanted was a well-thought-out move and if Ish thinks that same way, that's a huge concern going forward IMO. Personally, I still believe it was IT that made the decision and he's the sole reason Ish rushed into the move rather than playing hardball for the hours remaining on the trade clock.

Who thinks that the trade was a "well thought out move"? I don't think there are many that think that -- there are those that don't think it's as doom-and-gloom as others, but nobody that I know of has signed off on that trade wholeheartedly.

 

[Chaplin]

Oh please... what is Booker supposed to do about being on a capped out roster with no assets (other than himself) and no picks. I am sure dudes around the league will be dying to get him to come join THEM.

You mean like right now when we can't even sign good point guards like Tyus Jones or even Monte Morris?

Oh. Wait.

 

[Phrazbit]

It's really not. Every team goes through a downturn.

Through first 6 Picks in NBA draft.

You must be registered for see images attach

It really is. The only team I can recall being awful for years straight and not controlling their own picks for any of it is the Brooklyn Nets... and it is the result of the worst trade in modern history.

 

[Covert Rain]

It really is. The only team I can recall being awful for years straight and not controlling their own picks for any of it is the Brooklyn Nets... and it is the result of the worst trade in modern history.

You are trying predict events that don't back you up statistically and you are also ignoring who Ishbia is which is an owner with deep pockets who doesn't like to lose. It's ridiculous.

 

[Phrazbit]

You are trying predict events that don't back you up statistically and you are also ignoring who Ishbia is which is an owner with deep pockets who doesn't like to lose. It's ridiculous.

We disagree, it is all projection. Hopefully we win a title this year and we won't even care if we plummet into the abyss down the road, but the abyss path is going to be really difficult to avoid, no matter how much Ishbia wants to win and is willing to spend, if he has no assets and is capped it, he won't be able to do anything about it.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I don't have my crystal ball, but the incentive for bottoming out obviously won't be there, so the odds of it happening with an obscenely wealthy owner at the helm seem low.

 

[Phrazbit]

You mean like right now when we can't even sign good point guards like Tyus Jones or even Monte Morris?

Oh. Wait.

Those are signings to help along the margins... we are hoping that a major source of our problems last year was the lack of true point guards and that these 2 guys, neither exactly starting material, but still solid rotation players, will help us. It is a fair hope.

However, we're going to need to bring in real, high level talent over the years, legit starters, and without picks and without cap space, that is going to be really hard.

 

[Covert Rain]

We disagree, it is all projection. Hopefully we win a title this year and we won't even care if we plummet into the abyss down the road, but the abyss path is going to be really difficult to avoid, no matter how much Ishbia wants to win and is willing to spend, if he has no assets and is capped it, he won't be able to do anything about it.

Listen, I have no doubt at some point the Suns are going to be hurting because of all the assets we sent out. However, the Suns are hardly the first team to go through that downturn, not the first team to make a bad trade and not the first team who even drafts to go through a horrible string of bad drafts. Bottom line is KD did show up. He was one of the best players in the NBA last year. It just wasn't enough.

 

[Chaplin]

We disagree, it is all projection. Hopefully we win a title this year and we won't even care if we plummet into the abyss down the road, but the abyss path is going to be really difficult to avoid, no matter how much Ishbia wants to win and is willing to spend, if he has no assets and is capped it, he won't be able to do anything about it.

We thought he had no assets this year -- in fact, the only assets most of us though we had are still on the team (Little now being the exception). And yet, we still were able to improve.

You seem convinced we will 100% fall into the abyss, but nothing so far has shown that we are moving that way. Even in the 2nd apron.

 

[Covert Rain]

We thought he had no assets this year -- in fact, the only assets most of us though we had are still on the team (Little now being the exception). And yet, we still were able to improve.

You seem convinced we will 100% fall into the abyss, but nothing so far has shown that we are moving that way. Even in the 2nd apron.

Not to mention if the team truly does clean house it will free up enough space to bring in guys here who will likely be good enough to keep us from falling into that Abyss. I just don't see Ishbia playing that game of letting us bottoming out and waiting years again in the hopes we land the #1 pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Those are signings to help along the margins... we are hoping that a major source of our problems last year was the lack of true point guards and that these 2 guys, neither exactly starting material, but still solid rotation players, will help us. It is a fair hope.

However, we're going to need to bring in real, high level talent over the years, legit starters, and without picks and without cap space, that is going to be really hard.

I think Tyus is borderline starter material so getting him without offset like we did was huge IMO. He's good enough to start for a team but not good enough to keep you from searching for his replacement. I figure that applies to about half the starting PGs in this league.

 

[Chaplin]

Not to mention if the team truly does clean house it will free up enough space to bring in guys here who will likely be good enough to keep us from falling into that Abyss. I just don't see Ishbia playing that game of letting us bottoming out and waiting years again in the hopes we land the #1 pick.

Yeah I don't see that either. I think it is much more likely, for example, that we make another bad trade making us an average team, than for us to be a 10-win team for multiple years at the end of the decade.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Kurt Thomas decision was one of our worst moments. But as bad as the JJ trade was for us, I think you can make the case that even though it was driven by money, it was also a basketball decision. And you can't really say that with the Kurt trade or the selling of picks - that was just Sarver being Sarver.

Steve Kerr was still learning the intricacies of being a GM. Even if Sarver wanted to move KT's contract, there had to be better trades out there. Kerr has made comments regarding what a terrible trade that was, although I do not have them readily available.

IIRC, I think we might have different perspectives on this.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Those are signings to help along the margins... we are hoping that a major source of our problems last year was the lack of true point guards and that these 2 guys, neither exactly starting material, but still solid rotation players, will help us. It is a fair hope.

However, we're going to need to bring in real, high level talent over the years, legit starters, and without picks and without cap space, that is going to be really hard.

Tyus Jones isn’t starting material? Dude, I know you LOATHE the KD trade, but you’ve become downright irrational with your doom and gloom about this franchise.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve Kerr was still learning the intricacies of being a GM. Even if Sarver wanted to move KT's contract, there had to be better trades out there. Kerr has made comments regarding what a terrible trade that was, although I do not have them readily available.

IIRC, I think we might have different perspectives on this.

I'll take your word for it, nowadays I'm lucky to remember what I had for lunch. I do know it was a really stupid giveaway.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'll take your word for it, nowadays I'm lucky to remember what I had for lunch. I do know it was a really stupid giveaway.

Yes, I'm right there with you. The past 6 months has been the hardest of my life. Enjoy your loved ones. That's what life is all about.

 

[Phrazbit]

Tyus Jones isn’t starting material? Dude, I know you LOATHE the KD trade, but you’ve become downright irrational with your doom and gloom about this franchise.

I said “not exactly starting material”… like a fringe starter… the dude who has been a starter only one year in his entire career.

Not exactly a wild take.