Pistons @ Suns Saturday game thread 12-21-2024

[Mainstreet]

This team has been really hush hush since James jones came along. There are no details that get out anymore like injuries or the severity of them, player unhappiness/happiness, direction, accountability/unaccountability, ownership/acceptance, and direction of the organization.
We are kept in the dark and expected to just support this franchise.

I suspect this era will be coming to an end soon. I see dominoes falling sooner rather than later.

If Suns ownership is considerate enough to give fans a value menu, they will be considerate enough to take pride in the product they are putting on the court.

 

[nashman]

Missed this one totally forgot about it, that’s how just mid we are right now, used to never miss a game but heard Book was out and figured another embarrassing showing….

 

[Superbone]

What is this team good at?

Offense. And that's it. Horrible at defense and turnovers.

 

[Superbone]

Blowwwww this team up if possible

This current roster may not even make play in gm awfullllllll basketball tf suns

I'll tell you one thing, Ishbia is paying WAY too much for what we're getting on the court.

 

[Superbone]

Yeah I was hoping that adding Tyus and Morris would solve the turnover problem for us butI guess not.

If they were allowed to handle the ball most of the time, it would. And don't allow Durant to attempt an assist. He should only be allowed to pass back out to Tyus and Morris when open. But we all know KD's ego is too much for that.

 

[Superbone]

IDK, I like EJ.

At least he shares our frustrations with us.

 

[Superbone]

It's obvious we need to play hard like we do when we are down late in games trying to dig it out. We have to play hard from the opening tip, until the last buzzer. We came out lethargic. We were behind the whole game.

Yep, it takes a nightly punch to the face to get this team going and by that time, it's too late.

 

[Superbone]

Side note wtf were the refs thinking on the Dunn block and Plum out of bounds.

Yep, inexcusable on both. Why are they guessing at calls?

 

[Proximo]

Offense. And that's it. Horrible at defense and turnovers.

They aren’t even that good offensively.

 

[Yuma]

If they were allowed to handle the ball most of the time, it would. And don't allow Durant to attempt an assist. He should only be allowed to pass back out to Tyus and Morris when open. But we all know KD's ego is too much for that.

Actually he should just shoot when he gets the ball. That's his option. We should run the offense, and if he is open, we pass to him and his option is to shoot. It's what he does best. Stick to the plan!

 

[Yuma]

I suspect this era will be coming to an end soon. I see dominoes falling sooner rather than later.

If Suns ownership is considerate enough to give fans a value menu, they will be considerate enough to take pride in the product they are putting on the court.

IDK, Beal's contract expires when Book's was originally. He's not a free agent until 2027-2028 season. I think you have to extend KD because we can. We let him walk, I think Beal's contract still doesn't let us resign another star. We really can't rebuild until that 2027-2028 season. Draft picks and free agent minimum deals until then.

 

[Yuma]

This may be the only possibility, for being less difficult than trading Beal.

The only reason I don't really want to trade Booker is that he is the only player at all whom I feel the slightest connection to. One can find that odd, because I'm the one who complains about how Booker's "cool" personality is not conducive to winning. But having been drafted in 2015, Booker is the last remaining holdover from a Suns team with some players I actually liked. It's the same reason I felt a sentimental connection to Eric Bledsoe even though I wasn't a huge fan of Bledsoe. It's because of what Bledsoe represented to me. I was attached to the team Bledsoe helped anchor, and he was the last remaining key player from it, at the time the Suns traded him.

See my problem with Booker? His demeanor encourages me to feel distant from him, to feel that he is not really "my guy" even if I'd rather keep him. I'm not that attached to him, and if he were traded, I would feel sorry but would get over it. Same thing with Durant, but worse: I could care less about him. Or Beal, of course, or any player on this team. Put it this way: You want to stay cool, Devin Booker? Fine, I'll respond by staying cool too--toward you.

I love D Book. It's been a privilege to watch this kid go from, why did Phoenix waste their pick on this guy, to see him just by his own hard work move up to the upper levels of the NBA ladder. He has only ever supported Phoenix in return. He could have demanded out at any time. He's stood as loyal to Phoenix as anyone we have had come through here. I want to see him retire a Sun.

That said, you may be able to trade KD. However, we are stuck with Beal. So if you trade Book and KD, get ready for a Bradley Beal led Suns team until 2027-2028 season. Our team will REALLY suck until then and probably years after, too. That's another reason I don't want to trade Book. We won't get the return for him that we would lose. in talent.

 

[Hoop Head]

This situation might be unprecedented in Suns history. The failure of an extremely expensive (and financially restrictive) star trio has fans giving up on it less than halfway through its first full season. We aren't angry so much as disinterested. Our distant reaction mirrors the players' attitude.

This is season #2 under the Mid 3. The first full season was last year. We acquired Beal early in the off-season.

 

[Proximo]

I love D Book. It's been a privilege to watch this kid go from, why did Phoenix waste their pick on this guy, to see him just by his own hard work move up to the upper levels of the NBA ladder. He has only ever supported Phoenix in return. He could have demanded out at any time. He's stood as loyal to Phoenix as anyone we have had come through here. I want to see him retire a Sun.

That said, you may be able to trade KD. However, we are stuck with Beal. So if you trade Book and KD, get ready for a Bradley Beal led Suns team until 2027-2028 season. Our team will REALLY suck until then and probably years after, too. That's another reason I don't want to trade Book. We won't get the return for him that we would lose. in talent.

I’m more than ready. Give me some rookies I can root for and I will at least somewhat enjoy watching the games. I will have some hope, I have none now.

 

[Phrazbit]

I’m more than ready. Give me some rookies I can root for and I will at least somewhat enjoy watching the games. I will have some hope, I have none now.

I don't think we, or any fan base, is "ready" for the level of horror that would result from a Suns fire sale.

Winning 10-15 games a year with zero benefit, tanking teams being unable to out-tank this team who doesn't even own their own pick.

If we blow this up we are looking at a level of degradation that is basically unheard of in sports. We will be the most hopeless team in the league, absolutely no chance of being anything but a bottom 5 team... basically until the early/mid 2030s, meanwhile, we are feeding teams that took advantage of our stupidity top picks year after year.

We made our bed, we might as well sleep in it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think we, or any fan base, is "ready" for the level of horror that would result from a Suns fire sale.

Winning 10-15 games a year with zero benefit, tanking teams being unable to out-tank this team who doesn't even own their own pick.

If we blow this up we are looking at a level of degradation that is basically unheard of in sports. We will be the most hopeless team in the league, absolutely no chance of being anything but a bottom 5 team... basically until the early/mid 2030s, meanwhile, we are feeding teams that took advantage of our stupidity top picks year after year.

We made our bed, we might as well sleep in it.

Personally, I haven't felt the same about the Suns since they traded for Kevin Durant.

I guess I keep looking for a trade that will fix the team when there probably isn't one to be made.

If the bottom drops out, I guess the decision will be made for us.

 

[Hoop Head]

Personally, I haven't felt the same about the Suns since they traded for Kevin Durant.

I guess I keep looking for a trade that will fix the team when there probably isn't one to be made.

If the bottom drops out, I guess the decision will be made for us.

I was cautiously optimistic until the new CBA details came out shortly after the trade. That's when I knew we were screwed. Under the last CBA, we'd have a realistic shot clawing our way out or to contention. The aprons are so restrictive that we're along for the ride, for better or worse.

 

[Phrazbit]

I was cautiously optimistic until the new CBA details came out shortly after the trade. That's when I knew we were screwed. Under the last CBA, we'd have a realistic shot clawing our way out or to contention. The aprons are so restrictive that we're along for the ride, for better or worse.

I think we were screwed regardless. Durant has no fire and he isn't interested in a challenge. He's just not a guy to build a team around.

Despite the new CBA, I think we've actually done a decent job bringing in help... none of it matters though if your key players don't bother to play within the system that is designed to help them. They played this rapid, ball movement, let Jones instigate the offense, system for a couple weeks to start the year... and we looked great, but that is apparently over now, we're back doing to the same trash that didn't work a year ago and has zero chance of working in the modern NBA.

The putrid defense doesn't help either, but that seems like a byproduct of the team having no fire and seemingly not giving a crap if they win or lose.

 

[GatorAZ]

I don't think we, or any fan base, is "ready" for the level of horror that would result from a Suns fire sale.

Winning 10-15 games a year with zero benefit, tanking teams being unable to out-tank this team who doesn't even own their own pick.

If we blow this up we are looking at a level of degradation that is basically unheard of in sports. We will be the most hopeless team in the league, absolutely no chance of being anything but a bottom 5 team... basically until the early/mid 2030s, meanwhile, we are feeding teams that took advantage of our stupidity top picks year after year.

We made our bed, we might as well sleep in it.

The alternative is record tax bills for first rd fodder. Top-10 picks are a coinflip anyway.z.

 

[Phrazbit]

The alternative is record tax bills for first rd fodder. Top-10 picks are a coinflip anyway.z.

For what benefit? We can do a fire sale, we can be the worst team in the league, we can cement the Durant trade as the worst trade in NBA history and... what is the benefit?

The ownership saving some tax dollars (which Ishbia claims to not care about?) A couple late round picks in a Booker trade? I don't see how we get a return that even remotely sniffs the level of depravity that the franchise will sink to.

 

[Yuma]

For what benefit? We can do a fire sale, we can be the worst team in the league, we can cement the Durant trade as the worst trade in NBA history and... what is the benefit?

The ownership saving some tax dollars (which Ishbia claims to not care about?) A couple late round picks in a Booker trade? I don't see how we get a return that even remotely sniffs the level of depravity that the franchise will sink to.

Until the Beal contract comes off the books we are screwed. Might as well up KD to a contract that matches that timeline.

We could trade possibly Grayson Allen to a contender for at least two guys back. I don't think we can get a big that will solve our problems, but we could maybe get two defensive guys that help shore up the defense. This is all a big maybe. We can only trade around the edges. Maybe Royce Oneall. If I was another team, those two guys I can look at filling a role for my team, and I am only trading role players back in return.

In trades I always like to look at them from the other team's side. Like really, who would want Jokic? Who would want Beal? Even KD, we would have a very limited market. Booker is the only asset we have that could garner a minor bidding war. That's probably a net minus trading him, because the first thing we will do, is try and find a guy his age or younger to build around. Plus the assets we would get in return, probably not going to be as bountiful as you would think. There's no major trade that helps us.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For what benefit? We can do a fire sale, we can be the worst team in the league, we can cement the Durant trade as the worst trade in NBA history and... what is the benefit?

The ownership saving some tax dollars (which Ishbia claims to not care about?) A couple late round picks in a Booker trade? I don't see how we get a return that even remotely sniffs the level of depravity that the franchise will sink to.

If we have to do a fire sale we probably are screwed. But I'm convinced we're screwed regardless so that's less of a concern for me. And some of us called the KD deal the worst trade ever when it happened so it's not like any of us are looking for more proof. But I believe there's a small but reasonable chance that just clearing a lot of salary will allow us to rebuild quicker than letting our veterans age away.

But all that aside, what I really want to do is hang onto all of our future assets and jump on the opportunity to trade any of our veterans when they are playing well enough to draw some interest. We don't need to get a huge haul for any of them but we don't need to be selling them when they are at their lowest value either. And right now, the trade value of Booker and KD is likely to be underwhelming.

 

[Hoop Head]

If we have to do a fire sale we probably are screwed. But I'm convinced we're screwed regardless so that's less of a concern for me. And some of us called the KD deal the worst trade ever when it happened so it's not like any of us are looking for more proof. But I believe there's a small but reasonable chance that just clearing a lot of salary will allow us to rebuild quicker than letting our veterans age away.

I guess we're all in different stages of grief. Some of us in the depression stage and others in the acceptance. Some even in the bargaining stage, which would be dreaming for health, a Jimmy Butler trade, or moving our picks. It doesn't change reality and ultimately it's a matter of what we find more palatable for the next 5 years. One is a turd sandwich with ketchup and the other is just plain. Neither tastes good.

As long as we don't trade any future picks, I can handle what's to come. We shouldn't be trading picks for more condiments though. The entree sucks and there's no saving it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Trading KD and book is not only doable, it is rapidly becoming a requirement.

This team is gutless. They are our only valuable assets, every day this goes on they get older and more exposed as players who are fragile non leaders with not enough desire to win.

Yup. Between Book and KD, we can probably get 7 first rounders. Might be able to get a late 1st rounder for Allen/Tyus depending on injuries. Could probably get a couple 2nds at worst for Royce. So now is the time.

Recoup 7-8 first rounders then become a way-station for bad contracts attached to first round picks. Could be looking at 10 first round picks to play with within a year. And yes, the swaps the year with Memphis and Orlando could hurt, but the other years, the swaps are overblown. The Nets and Wizards are two of the worst franchises in the league. If we have to swap with them, we’re still likely landing in the lotto somewhere. And if we have extra picks to play with, they can use those to move up in the draft.

But the bottom line is this team is a rudderless ship, with two big assets who value is only going to decline from here. Bite the bullets and begin anew.

 

[Yuma]

Yup. Between Book and KD, we can probably get 7 first rounders. Might be able to get a late 1st rounder for Allen/Tyus depending on injuries. Could probably get a couple 2nds at worst for Royce. So now is the time.

Recoup 7-8 first rounders then become a way-station for bad contracts attached to first round picks. Could be looking at 10 first round picks to play with within a year. And yes, the swaps the year with Memphis and Orlando could hurt, but the other years, the swaps are overblown. The Nets and Wizards are two of the worst franchises in the league. If we have to swap with them, we’re still likely landing in the lotto somewhere. And if we have extra picks to play with, they can use those to move up in the draft.

But the bottom line is this team is a rudderless ship, with two big assets who value is only going to decline from here. Bite the bullets and begin anew.

I really don't see us getting anywhere near that haul. I have no faith in our GM getting that much dealing from a position of weakness. You have more optimism than me on those first rounders.