1998 All over again

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

The panic is strong in this thread. Dansby and rolle were all about the money and could care less about anything else.

 

[dogpoo32]

SIX?

Warner was huge. No doubt.

Boldin? Whoopty-do. We'll be fine without him. The 09 Q was nowhere near the 03-07 Boldin.

Dansby? See Boldin. Barely above average.

Rolle? See Dansby. Average at best. The Giants BIG-TIME screwed the pooch on this one.

Okeafor? Good riddance.

Berry? See Boldin.

Robinson? See all of the above.

I'm not worried at all.

Sooo... who is filling these holes? YOu might brush them off as garbage but they were part of the team that won back to back NFC west champs. Now, all we have are holes and questions.

 

[CardinalChris]

team chemistry!!! those guys all played together thru sweat, pain & adversity, they knew each others strengths & weaknesses.

It's more about the big picture than the individual pieces.

Wait, your argument originally was how great the individual players, such as Dansby was. Yes, this is a big change. And for all of those except Dansby and Rolle we have a apparent heir to those positions. That is what winning teams with talent have to do. It is up to the Front office and the coaches to minimize the impact. And in my opinion they get the benefit of the doubt. It is not ideal, but it is what it is. Can they mitigate the losses and still win more games than they lose? We will see and until I see who fills in those spots, I refuse to nosedive the plane into the mountain.

 

[Brian]

team chemistry!!! those guys all played together thru sweat, pain & adversity, they knew each others strengths & weaknesses.

It's more about the big picture than the individual pieces.

Do you mean the chemistry that gave up 90 points in two playoff games?

Face it. Rolle, Dansby, Okeafor, Berry, Robinson, etc. weren't great.

They were average. The Tennessee game should have shown you that. Hell, the SB should have nailed it down.

These guys are replaceable. It's the scheme/coaching I am more worried about.

 

[Buckybird]

The panic is strong in this thread. Dansby and rolle were all about the money and could care less about anything else.

Maybe they felt they would be treated much like Boldin was, who most here called "the heart of the team" not good enough to be a lifetime Cardinal. I can't blame them. I think today sets a bad tone for players such as Dockett in the lockeroom. Management must win back the players trust.

 

[CardinalChris]

Sooo... who is filling these holes? YOu might brush them off as garbage but they were part of the team that won back to back NFC west champs. Now, all we have are holes and questions.

Warner - Leinart. This is why he sat for 2 years.

Boldin - Breaston. He is a suitable replacement.

Berry - Cody. Again, why he was drafted, like Campbell.

Okeafor - Haggans sort of stole that spot already IMHO.

Robinson - Time for the young DTs to step up.

Dabsy - This is a whole and needs to be adressed.

Rolle - Also a hole and needs to be addressed.

So 2 guys do not have players in the pipeline to replace them, but free agency is a day old. HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!!!!

When we suit up Abdullah and Highsmith to replace them I will panic, but that hasn't happened yet.

 

[CardinalChris]

Maybe they felt they would be treated much like Boldin was, who most here called "the heart of the team" not good enough to be a lifetime Cardinal. I can't blame them. I think today sets a bad tone for players such as Dockett in the lockeroom. Management must win back the players trust.

No, they signed for more money than most thought they worth. Do you pay Rolle 8 mil a year?

 

[Buckybird]

Do you mean the chemistry that gave up 90 points in two playoff games?

Face it. Rolle, Dansby, Okeafor, Berry, Robinson, etc. weren't great.

They were average. The Tennessee game should have shown you that. Hell, the SB should have nailed it down.

These guys are replaceable. It's the scheme/coaching I am more worried about.

Those players were also part of the only team in Cardinal history to reach a Super Bowl & have won more playoff games in 2 seasons than their 1st 90 years of existance.

 

[Buckybird]

No, they signed for more money than most thought they worth. Do you pay Rolle 8 mil a year?

I understand letting Rolle, but not Los

 

[CardinalChris]

Those players were also part of the only team in Cardinal history to reach a Super Bowl & have won more playoff games in 2 seasons than their 1st 90 years of existance.

Have to agree with Bucky in one manner. They were not garbage. They are valuable members of this team. But their value was less IMO than what their new teams paid them (Rolle) or about right but the player CHOSE to go elsewhere (dansby).

 

[CardinalChris]

I understand letting Rolle, but not Los

OK, fair. So let's not discuss Rolle. Can you agree we offered him more last year and he turned it down? Can you also agree by all reports we were at least on par with Miami and he still signed there? And I think our offer was more than fair market value. So you are a proponent of paying him 10 million per year (overpay him) to keep him?

 

[dogpoo32]

Warner - Leinart. This is why he sat for 2 years.

Boldin - Breaston. He is a suitable replacement.

Berry - Cody. Again, why he was drafted, like Campbell.

Okeafor - Haggans sort of stole that spot already IMHO.

Robinson - Time for the young DTs to step up.

Dabsy - This is a whole and needs to be adressed.

Rolle - Also a hole and needs to be addressed.

So 2 guys do not have players in the pipeline to replace them, but free agency is a day old. HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!!!!

When we suit up Abdullah and Highsmith to replace them I will panic, but that hasn't happened yet.

So, 3/6 are holes and the rest are question marks.

 

[Duckjake]

No team replaces only 2 starters a year in the NFL. So i sense you are more upset this all happened at once than that it happened?

Yes Dansby was a very good player, but tell me what you think, Bucky. Is Dansby better than those 5, the best two who need extensions within 2 years or not? I think there is no doubt Dansby was just outside of the group I listed. and we made a very good, comparable offer. This happens and you can't panic.

The Cards replaced only two starters in 2009. Antonio Smith and EJames and they had already started Hightower the year before. They replace zero starters in 2008 and won the NFC Championship. No rookie was in the lineup on opening day 2008 and the only guy who wasn't on the team in 2007 that started was Travis LaBoy and he was still in a rotation with Berry.

Yes I am more concerned because it all happened at once. I don't care how many people claim all the guys sucked and won't be missed you don't plug and play on a large scale and compete in the NFL without missing a beat. After the results in the AZ from 1999-2007 we should all be acutely aware of that.

 

[Brian]

Those players were also part of the only team in Cardinal history to reach a Super Bowl & have won more playoff games in 2 seasons than their 1st 90 years of existance.

The offense, Warner, and Whiz won those games. Dansby and Rolle had little to do with it. Our D sucks. Little talent outside of DD and DRC.

Again, we need to upgrade the D. Rolle and Dansby aren't an intregral part of that.

 

[CardinalChris]

So, 3/6 are holes and the rest are question marks.

No, they are all holes, but the roster was prepared for 3 of them. The other 3 are question marks, one of which was a marginal player at best (Robinson).

 

[Buckybird]

The offense, Warner, and Whiz won those games. Dansby and Rolle had little to do with it. Our D sucks. Little talent outside of DD and DRC.

Again, we need to upgrade the D. Rolle and Dansby aren't an intregral part of that.

Not argueing we need upgrades on the D.

As far as getting to the Super Bowl was all on the offense, how many turnovers did we get on our way to Tampa? They played a huge role in wins against Carolina & Atlanta. Hell, if Rolle isn't in the right place at the right time against the Falcs on the fumble TD we might not have won a playoff game. Who scored the winning TD against GB? Nuff said!!!

 

[CardinalChris]

The Cards replaced only two starters in 2009. Antonio Smith and EJames and they had already started Hightower the year before. They replace zero starters in 2008 and won the NFC Championship. No rookie was in the lineup on opening day 2008 and the only guy who wasn't on the team in 2007 that started was Travis LaBoy and he was still in a rotation with Berry.

Yes I am more concerned because it all happened at once. I don't care how many people claim all the guys sucked and won't be missed you don't plug and play on a large scale and compete in the NFL without missing a beat. After the results in the AZ from 1999-2007 we should all be acutely aware of that.

Really? Rolle started in 2007 at safety? Seems like we replaced a couple. Eric Green didn't start? Rod Hood wasn't replaced last year? go from the beginning of the year to the next, not end of one year, beginning of next. Players developed and are slid up during the season and should be accounted for. I bet we replace, on average 2-4 starters from year to year. Right now we need to find 4. Tough, yes. Jump off a cliff tough? No.

 

[Buckybird]

OK, fair. So let's not discuss Rolle. Can you agree we offered him more last year and he turned it down? Can you also agree by all reports we were at least on par with Miami and he still signed there? And I think our offer was more than fair market value. So you are a proponent of paying him 10 million per year (overpay him) to keep him?

Nobody knows specifically what Dansby was offered in the past. I do know this, we had 3 chances to get the guy signed & didn't. Now way I will ever buy that Dansby wouldn't have resigned here if he was paid what he felt he was worth. Offering him a contract today in Dansby's mind was to late.

 

[Duckjake]

Not argueing we need upgrades on the D.

As far as getting to the Super Bowl was all on the offense, how many turnovers did we get on our way to Tampa? They played a huge role in wins against Carolina & Atlanta. Hell, if Rolle isn't in the right place at the right time against the Falcs on the fumble TD we might not have won a playoff game. Who scored the winning TD against GB? Nuff said!!!

Bucky, sometime I wonder if people are suffering from Whisenwarneramnesia.

They completely forget the 13 turnovers the D forced or holding 4 of the best teams in the NFL to an average of 75 yards rushing per game in the playoffs or that it was Warner's pick and the offense's inability to tackle that allowed the Steelers to have enough points to be able to come from behind.

 

[CardinalChris]

Nobody knows specifically what Dansby was offered in the past. I do know this, we had 3 chances to get the guy signed & didn't. Now way I will ever buy that Dansby wouldn't have resigned here if he was paid what he felt he was worth. Offering him a contract today in Dansby's mind was to late.

No, but the reports were 24 million guaranteed from multiple reliable sources. Good enough for me. The guy took 25% less bonus money than he expected. He misjudged the market. The team had his value right. And STILL he moved on.

If he wouldn't resign here how do you explain we offered him the same practical contract as Miami? I think Joe may be right that 1) income tax in Florida was tempting and 2) he prefers to live in the Southeast. And those two things, not some sort of "Contract burn" had him sign in Miami.

 

[CardinalChris]

Bucky, sometime I wonder if people are suffering from Whisenwarneramnesia.

They completely forget the 13 turnovers the D forced or holding 4 of the best teams in the NFL to an average of 75 yards rushing per game in the playoffs or that it was Warner's pick and the offense's inability to tackle that allowed the Steelers to have enough points to be able to come from behind.

You can't lump these two players into being the entire defense either though. With Bucky's methodology Michael Adams is worth 5 mil. a year because he forced the turn over.

Big play are important, but the truth lies between the people who say they suck and our defense was horrible with them, so who cares and the people who see the walls crumbling.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The panic is strong in this thread. Dansby and rolle were all about the money and could care less about anything else.

look, argue they weren't worth the contracts they got all you want... you'd have an argument there, but BOTH guys went to teams that have historically been MUCH better than us... both of which are only one year removed from having the best record in the league and 11-5. Dansby took the same amount of money in Miami, so $ wasn't the only factor and Rolle obviously got a ridiculous contract but he got it from a perenial playoff contender.

 

[Shane]

At Some point people need to realize that those two players that signed huge deals today just plain and simply didn't want to be here. There is nothing this team could have done to keep them. They offered them both similar money. They declined end of story!

 

[WarnerHOF]

look, argue they weren't worth the contracts they got all you want... you'd have an argument there, but BOTH guys went to teams that have historically been MUCH better than us... both of which are only one year removed from having the best record in the league and 11-5. Dansby took the same amount of money in Miami, so $ wasn't the only factor and Rolle obviously got a ridiculous contract but he got it from a perenial playoff contender.

This is true. This is a period where we have to show our young players that we can be consistent winners so the only reason they leave in the future is because of the money. Rolle and Dansby were both here during the dark ages and they probably thought that without Warner, we were going back to being the same ol Cards.

 

[CardinalChris]

At Some point people need to realize that those two players that signed huge deals today just plain and simply didn't want to be here. There is nothing this team could have done to keep them. They offered them both similar money. They declined end of story!

Slight point to disagree. You could overpay both (not by just a little) and they would have stayed. But I don't think that is the best thing you can do. Assign a value to a player and stay as close to that number as you can, then be correct in that number. That is what smart teams do.