1st round expectations

[conraddobler]

I just want to float a theory as to why some hate Josh so bad around here.

I think mostly it's because he ruined our chances at drafting a QB. Therefore he is expected to produce almost as if he were a high first round QB.

I don't think some will ever forgive him for ruining that and maybe that's fair but to me it seems pointless because we were always going to take Fitz.

I like Fitz more now than ever and I certainly don't blame Josh for that. I don't care if he is the QB of the future or not he did his job that game and won.

He did well enough today to win as he did last week. I can't see choosing now to decide he is not the QB of the future.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I just want to float a theory as to why some hate Josh so bad around here.

I think mostly it's because he ruined our chances at drafting a QB. Therefore he is expected to produce almost as if he were a high first round QB.

I don't think some will ever forgive him for ruining that and maybe that's fair but to me it seems pointless because we were always going to take Fitz.

I like Fitz more now than ever and I certainly don't blame Josh for that. I don't care if he is the QB of the future or not he did his job that game and won.

He did well enough today to win as he did last week. I can't see choosing now to decide he is not the QB of the future.

you are correct about one thing. There is some serious hatin on josh going on.

I thought the kid played pretty good today.

 

[football24/7]

Geez, the kid only threw 3 td passes today. A punt return for a TD, and a complete defensive collapse. NO way did josh lose this game. He made the plays for the vast majority of times when he had to. Lack of a runnig game in the 4th quarter, and ZERO stops when needed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just want to float a theory as to why some hate Josh so bad around here.

I think mostly it's because he ruined our chances at drafting a QB. Therefore he is expected to produce almost as if he were a high first round QB.

I don't think some will ever forgive him for ruining that and maybe that's fair but to me it seems pointless because we were always going to take Fitz.

I like Fitz more now than ever and I certainly don't blame Josh for that. I don't care if he is the QB of the future or not he did his job that game and won.

He did well enough today to win as he did last week. I can't see choosing now to decide he is not the QB of the future.

Well - I don't hate Josh so I'm probably not going to go in line with your theory. Once DG came on board - any decisions about the QB were gonna be his call - it's always been his specialty and whatever he needed to do with the draft, I was completely on board.

I've been waffling on Fitz but I've seen true greatness in this kid. He IS the real deal - period and I can't wait to see our version of basically Cris Carter and Terrell Owens (without the tude) lined up on opposite sides of the field.

I think the Josh bashing thing is so heated right now for one simple reason - we're not winning close ball games - and that can't be argued. Something needs to stand out in close ball games and it's usually leadership. With most QBs you can see at least bits and pieces of it - even when they are really young or just starting out - Brady, Delhomme, Aaron Brooks, Bulger, hell even Jon Kitna waayyyyy back in the day with Seattle - all of them were low round picks but when they got in they instantly hit the ground running - Bulger won 5 games in a row, Brady - we all know that story, Delhomme wasn't even the starter in the first game with Carolina last year but rallied them to a huge comeback in week 1 and then continued to do so all season, Brooks came in and took over midway through the season and brought the Saints to the playoffs his first year playing.

I think some of us were hoping for the same with Josh, but also have our expectations lowered because, well, he hasn't really ever proved anything at any level.

I really think it's the close losses and the inability to make a play in the fourth are the reasons Josh is getting so much crap.

Maybe we all do need more patience - I didn't think this team was going to the playoffs anyway - but I think the instant competitveness made everyone a little greedy and we want the wins now.

At least - that's the way I see it.

 

[Rats]

I just want to float a theory as to why some hate Josh so bad around here.

I think mostly it's because he ruined our chances at drafting a QB. Therefore he is expected to produce almost as if he were a high first round QB.

I don't think some will ever forgive him for ruining that and maybe that's fair but to me it seems pointless because we were always going to take Fitz.

I like Fitz more now than ever and I certainly don't blame Josh for that. I don't care if he is the QB of the future or not he did his job that game and won.

He did well enough today to win as he did last week. I can't see choosing now to decide he is not the QB of the future.

I agree with this totally. My brother and I sat next to his Wife and her family last week and everyone was happy with the win. We talked about the great confidence that Josh has in himself and his teammates. I told them to keep his support system going full throttle because we were still undermanned in some areas as an NFL team and he will have alot of bad days this year. His team had a bad day today because they lost. They scored enough to win. Those that want to just bag on the QB are just sour grapes over the #1 drafted Qb we weren't going to get anyway. Ben Rothimacallit would not have helped today. He might have put up 28 ots like Josh did but we still would have lost.

 

[conraddobler]

I agree with this totally. My brother and I sat next to his Wife and her family last week and everyone was happy with the win. We talked about the great confidence that Josh has in himself and his teammates. I told them to keep his support system going full throttle because we were still undermanned in some areas as an NFL team and he will have alot of bad days this year. His team had a bad day today because they lost. They scored enough to win. Those that want to just bag on the QB are just sour grapes over the #1 drafted Qb we weren't going to get anyway. Ben Rothimacallit would not have helped today. He might have put up 28 ots like Josh did but we still would have lost.

I understand why some of it is there and all but to be honest this team has a few gaping holes.

We need more depth at CB and we need a RB in the worst way. Our Oline needs more time as a unit because I think eventually it will be good.

Josh needs experience and he needs his WR healthy.

I personally thought our OC and DC lost this game for us today. There were a ton of 1st down runs that went absolutely nowhere and yet we continued to do them all game.

The OC calls just don't seem to have the right rythym to them or something I can't quite tell but some series are just flat out duds play calling wise.

 

[Rats]

I understand why some of it is there and all but to be honest this team has a few gaping holes.

We need more depth at CB and we need a RB in the worst way. Our Oline needs more time as a unit because I think eventually it will be good.

Josh needs experience and he needs his WR healthy.

I personally thought our OC and DC lost this game for us today. There were a ton of 1st down runs that went absolutely nowhere and yet we continued to do them all game.

The OC calls just don't seem to have the right rythym to them or something I can't quite tell but some series are just flat out duds play calling wise.

I would think a rythym on offense has to do with excution of the play calling. The offense executed pretty well today but had some bad series that made it impossible to sustain a rythym and stalled drives. Depth is a huge problem with this team and probably will be this year. Everyone needs to stay healthy if we are to compete.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I have never seen McClown look through the progression of wr's yet.

This whole depending on bolding thing is crap. If you cant get it done with Fitz, Poole, Johnosn, Jones well then he isnt the great leader now is her. Id bet any of the top QB;s today wouldnt turn down this wr corp.

He has absolutely no idea what to do when protection breaks down.

He consistantly throws into coverage.

Holds the ball too long....still.

Has a weird funky dropback.

Still think that wet stain on his pants was from wetting himself.

The passes he makes are from some amazing ability. Any QB worth minimum wage can make them.

Has no clock management and believe Green still hasnt opened him up to 50% of the playbook yet...why?

No command of the field.

Throws short on every single 3rd down play.

goes on and on and on. His time has come. Inexperience is as used as an excuse over and over. Burger boy in pittsburgh isnt having the youth and experience problem is he?

He wont be starting much longer so Ill just grin and bear it.

 

[Bellingham Mike]

I have never seen McClown look through the progression of wr's yet.

This whole depending on bolding thing is crap. If you cant get it done with Fitz, Poole, Johnosn, Jones well then he isnt the great leader now is her. Id bet any of the top QB;s today wouldnt turn down this wr corp.

He has absolutely no idea what to do when protection breaks down.

He consistantly throws into coverage.

Holds the ball too long....still.

Has a weird funky dropback.

Still think that wet stain on his pants was from wetting himself.

The passes he makes are from some amazing ability. Any QB worth minimum wage can make them.

Has no clock management and believe Green still hasnt opened him up to 50% of the playbook yet...why?

No command of the field.

Throws short on every single 3rd down play.

goes on and on and on. His time has come. Inexperience is as used as an excuse over and over. Burger boy in pittsburgh isnt having the youth and experience problem is he?

He wont be starting much longer so Ill just grin and bear it.

Manning`s first 16 starts QB rating of 71.2 56.7 completion % 28 picks
swd1974 would want him gone I`m sure. Oh I think the Colt`s won 2 games
or 4 at most that year.

 

[WildBB]

Geez, the kid only threw 3 td passes today. A punt return for a TD, and a complete defensive collapse. NO way did josh lose this game. He made the plays for the vast majority of times when he had to. Lack of a runnig game in the 4th quarter, and ZERO stops when needed.

Yea, this one's squarely on the DDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

For a Rook he's doing some stuff. Look at Palmer, he isn't lighting up the world. And the Bengals DO HAVE a big time b/u in Kitna. We don't.

 

[Stout]

Yea, this one's squarely on the DDDDDDDDDDDDDD.

For a Rook he's doing some stuff. Look at Palmer, he isn't lighting up the world. And the Bengals DO HAVE a big time b/u in Kitna. We don't.

He is NOT a rook. He's in, what, his third year? Fourth? Not too sure. Yeah, he used to have a bad coaching staff. Yeah, this is his first full year starting. So now is the time for him to step it up. Will he? We'll see. He hasn't shown killer instinct this year so far, though.

 

[WildBB]

He is NOT a rook. He's in, what, his third year? Fourth? Not too sure. Yeah, he used to have a bad coaching staff. Yeah, this is his first full year starting. So now is the time for him to step it up. Will he? We'll see. He hasn't shown killer instinct this year so far, though.

Ya, that's what I mean - him and Palmer - both 1st yr. starters - kind of Rook's.

This would be his 3rd season.

I think he's trying NOT to loose games rather than win em. In doing that I think he's playing within the system. I do agree that he needs to see things better when his first option isn't there. But not force things either. He's under alot of heat alot of times too. Something he's adjusting to - but not always well.

 

[Stout]

Ya, that's what I mean - him and Palmer - both 1st yr. starters - kind of Rook's.

This would be his 3rd season.

I think he's trying NOT to loose games rather than win em. In doing that I think he's playing within the system. I do agree that he needs to see things better when his first option isn't there. But not force things either. He's under alot of heat alot of times too. Something he's adjusting to - but not always well.

Sorry. I won't even say he's kinda a rook. Not in the least. Neither is Palmer. McCown's even had MORE grooming than Palmer, and that means he should get LESS leeway.

Look, it's not as if it's unheard of for a guy to sit for a year and two, become the starter, and break out, or at least have good seasons. Pennington and Culpepper come to mind. I just don't think the 'rook' theory flies in the least, and I refuse to listen to it as a crutch as to why he doesn't play better.

And playing to NOT lose games is weak and WILL lose games. Just ask our defense.

 

[conraddobler]

Sorry. I won't even say he's kinda a rook. Not in the least. Neither is Palmer. McCown's even had MORE grooming than Palmer, and that means he should get LESS leeway.

Look, it's not as if it's unheard of for a guy to sit for a year and two, become the starter, and break out, or at least have good seasons. Pennington and Culpepper come to mind. I just don't think the 'rook' theory flies in the least, and I refuse to listen to it as a crutch as to why he doesn't play better.

And playing to NOT lose games is weak and WILL lose games. Just ask our defense.

For the last friggen time stop comparing a QB to other teams QB's,

Culpepper passes to Moss for all that is holy.

Pennington has Curtis Martin

Do we have those guys or guys that good..... NOOOOOOOOO.

We don't even have Kendal Pennington does.

What is apples to oranges around here is comparing other QB's on teams that are above our teams talent level.

Without Boldin you need to pick different teams and look at their QB's

Right now a good start would be stick with teams currently in the bottom 10 of the league and then find me examples of stunning new QB's off those because right now that would only begin to level the comparision playing field.

Find me one of those without it's best reciever with an Oline in which not one player is in the same postion as last year and one who has a 35year old starting RB.

Let's talk after you complete that assignment.

 

[Stout]

For the last friggen time stop comparing a QB to other teams QB's,

Culpepper passes to Moss for all that is holy.

Pennington has Curtis Martin

Do we have those guys or guys that good..... NOOOOOOOOO.

We don't even have Kendal Pennington does.

What is apples to oranges around here is comparing other QB's on teams that are above our teams talent level.

Without Boldin you need to pick different teams and look at their QB's

Right now a good start would be stick with teams currently in the bottom 10 of the league and then find me examples of stunning new QB's off those because right now that would only begin to level the comparision playing field.

Find me one of those without it's best reciever with an Oline in which not one player is in the same postion as last year and one who has a 35year old starting RB.

Let's talk after you complete that assignment.

So you're trying to tell me that good QBs on crappy teams don't play well? Or that young, star QBs that have junk around them can't elevate their play? You just closed your own case and ruined your own argument. You're more than willing to give the kid all the slack in the world, just because of circumstances. I want the kid to show me that he has the balls, the tenacity, and the mentality to win games. I thought he might after the Minny game last year, but so far, through five games, he hasn't shown it yet.

 

[conraddobler]

So you're trying to tell me that good QBs on crappy teams don't play well? Or that young, star QBs that have junk around them can't elevate their play? You just closed your own case and ruined your own argument. You're more than willing to give the kid all the slack in the world, just because of circumstances. I want the kid to show me that he has the balls, the tenacity, and the mentality to win games. I thought he might after the Minny game last year, but so far, through five games, he hasn't shown it yet.

He has been pounded on not to run so early and to throw the ball away when he has too.

He does that and now he has no balls?... When everyone was hounding the kid he took off and ran and took some awful shots and did he stop doing that no he did it more until the point people told him if you don't stop that you'll get killed and for the good of the team learn to run the game from the pocket.

So he does that and now he has no balls?

Let's see you run like McCown did in the NFL and then accuse him of having no balls.

You are the one that just heard your arguement go WHOOOSH in the great bad arguement toilet.

He's going through exactly what every young new starting QB goes through just when one part of his game is perfected the defense finds another rookie thing to pick on until he comes out the other side and basically can handle anything.

That dosen't happen by your 8th friggen start in all cases.

Honestly this team dosen't need a QB it needs a mesiah. Maybe we can drum one of those up.

He'd never make a bad read, never throw a bad ball, have all the balls in the world and he could actually force the defense not to give up late leads just by standing on the sidelines.

He'd also be great fun at tailgate parties watching him feed thousands with one hot dog and a half a cup of warm beer.

 

[Stout]

He has been pounded on not to run so early and to throw the ball away when he has too.

He does that and now he has no balls?... When everyone was hounding the kid he took off and ran and took some awful shots and did he stop doing that no he did it more until the point people told him if you don't stop that you'll get killed and for the good of the team learn to run the game from the pocket.

So he does that and now he has no balls?

Let's see you run like McCown did in the NFL and then accuse him of having no balls.

Okay, for 3 quarters of one game, McCown almost completely fixed his happy feet and threw the ball away correctly...that does NOT mean he's fixed the problem as you so conveniently try to say. You make this blanket statement as if it is so, when in fact late in the game, and in every other play, McCown has NOT shown these qualities. So no, to me, he hasn't yet fixed those problems, and until he does, I won't be a big supporter. He has shown promise, and hopefully can build on some of it, otherwise, he's not the answer.

 

[ajcardfan]

Everyone is bagging on him for not throwing the ball away on that 2nd and 1. However, he's clearly made progress in that area since the Atlanta fiasco. The big problem on that play was not McCown, but the fact we had a rookie RB in there with no clue as to who he was supposed to block on a blitz. Emmitt would've picked that guy up, and who knows what might have happened?

I'm more uncertain about McCown than ever before. I've been more down on him than for him, in the past. I just need more data to make a conclusion about his future.

 

[pete]

Everyone is bagging on him for not throwing the ball away on that 2nd and 1. However, he's clearly made progress in that area since the Atlanta fiasco. The big problem on that play was not McCown, but the fact we had a rookie RB in there with no clue as to who he was supposed to block on a blitz. Emmitt would've picked that guy up, and who knows what might have happened?

I'm more uncertain about McCown than ever before. I've been more down on him than for him, in the past. I just need more data to make a conclusion about his future.

Maybe they were planning on running a screen with Croom. I don't know. Croom stepped up to the left, turned around, and watched McCown get plastered.

I can't think of another reason why a rookie RB would be in there other than he is the 3rd down back now and they were going to run a screen. I hope they didn't put him in there to block.

 

[Russ Smith]

Everyone is bagging on him for not throwing the ball away on that 2nd and 1. However, he's clearly made progress in that area since the Atlanta fiasco. The big problem on that play was not McCown, but the fact we had a rookie RB in there with no clue as to who he was supposed to block on a blitz. Emmitt would've picked that guy up, and who knows what might have happened?

I'm more uncertain about McCown than ever before. I've been more down on him than for him, in the past. I just need more data to make a conclusion about his future.

OK now THAT is a point I'll accept and frankly in the heat of the moment I did forget that Emmitt was out and Croom in on that play.

I still wonder why he didn't see the blitz but you are right with Emmitt in there it may have played out differently.

I'm not all that high on Croom myself he just seems to lack explosion, and size.

 

[conraddobler]

The most refreshing thing about this coaching staff is that I do not believe we have to worry about them carrying someone or being afraid to bench someone.

I don't worry about Josh at all, I am only a fan because he starts if he sits then I will root for whoever is the QB.

I don't really get what people are complaining about Josh so much for. It's almost like they feel Green is holding on to the kid just to prove himself right and at the same time losing games because he is stubborn.

While I agree some other QB may do better right now I highly doubt Green is doing this as some sort of ego thing. He believes what he said about Josh and when he dosen't believe it anymore then Josh will be gone, about that I have no doubt.

Green has a great track record with QB's and he changes them like underwear so what's all the fuss about it will all work out.

 

[john h]

I just want to float a theory as to why some hate Josh so bad around here.

I think mostly it's because he ruined our chances at drafting a QB. Therefore he is expected to produce almost as if he were a high first round QB.

I don't think some will ever forgive him for ruining that and maybe that's fair but to me it seems pointless because we were always going to take Fitz.

I like Fitz more now than ever and I certainly don't blame Josh for that. I don't care if he is the QB of the future or not he did his job that game and won.

He did well enough today to win as he did last week. I can't see choosing now to decide he is not the QB of the future.

this is nitpicking but I do not think any of us "hate" Josh I think we are disappointed in his overall performance and lack of improvement. We were led to believe by DG that he would be a good NFL QB. So far he has come no where near those expectations. We also wonder why when he is playing so poorly we do not put in another QB for a quarter just for a change of pace? All on this board want the Cards to win but we have a different take on the best way to do it and also a very different take on the futrure of Josh as our future QB. We are sort of like Democrats and Republicans. DG is the captain of our ship so we will either sink or float with his decisions but we can still voice our thoughts here on the board which will in no way effect what DG does.