2011 Draft: Von Miller, LBer

[SuperSpck]

Get to know a little bit about LB prospect Von Miller through a catch all.
(These kind of gatherers show a person how subjective scouting is.)

What's your take?

Vitals
OLBer
Ht 6-2 Wt 246
School Texas A&M

POST COMBINE UPDATE w/ numbers!

40 yard dash: 4.53
Arm Length: 33½
Hand Size: n/a
Reps on Bench w/ 225lbs: 21
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine-top-performers/09000d5d81e892ba/Top-Player-of-Day-3-Von-Miller

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine-top-performers/09000d5d81e892ba/Top-Player-of-Day-3-Von-Miller

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An undersized pass rusher who does the majority of his work from a two-point stance. Possesses a great first step and has the initial burst to consistently threaten the edge with his outside speed rush. Is routinely one of the first defensive linemen moving off the ball and really maximizes his initial burst with his good awareness off the snap.

Plays with a great motor and always seems to be working hard toward the football. Does a nice job dropping his shoulder initially off the edge, really gives opposing linemen a little target to hit and seems to be sinking his hips and frame over more as a senior when trying to flatten out around the edge. However, will get a bit upright at times when just trying to win with his initial burst and can be pushed past the play easily.

He's very sudden and quick when attacking up the field and does a great job working the inside shimmy initially, planting his foot in the ground and exploding up the field. Closes quickly on the quarterback once he gains a step and has the lower body strength to fight his way through contact. Possesses good body control and fluidity when asked to change directions and definitely has some lateral quickness to his game as a pass rusher.

However, he isn't nearly as effective once an opposing lineman is able to get his hands on him, as he tends to lose balance at times and can be easily kept at bay. Lacks ideal power on his bull rush, allows his pad level to get too high and struggles to disengage through the contact. But, he does display above-average strength in his hands and does a nice job extending his arms into blocks, keeping himself clean and suddenly disengaging from opposing linemen when trying to work his way inside initially off the snap.

Impression: An explosive pass rusher who has the awareness and first step to consistently win off the snap. Definitely has the ability to be a productive pass rushing 3-4 OLB at the next level. He just needs to continue to polish his game and learn to use his hands a bit better when engaged. Miller is one of the better linebacker prospects to emerge over the last few years. He has great size, athletic ability and play speed. He is an excellent pass rusher both from on his feet and when playing from a 3-point stance. He has quick hands and shows good ability to use counter moves. His first step and lean coming off the edge are excellent. Because of his size and athleticism, 3-4 teams will look at him as an OLB and some Tampa 2 scheme teams may look at him as a defensive end. He is a player with very good instincts and reactions. He is quick to find the ball and makes a lot of plays in the run game. He is an explosive tackler. When used in coverage, he has a good drop and good receiver awareness plus he has the quickness needed to cover running backs man to man.

http://sidelinescouting.com/rankings/olb/von-miller.shtml

Positives:Extremely disruptive pass rusher, is great at collapsing the pocket and forcing quarterbacks to step up into quickly closing space and make bad decisions... Has a high motor, is asked to blitz constantly and does not stop pursuing the quarterback until the ball is downfield... Can deliver crushing blows to opposing quarterback if he takes the right angle, tackles through opponents and does not stop at first contact... Very good at wrap-up tackling, begins many tackles at hip level and then maintains force while wrapping legs of ball carrier... Incredible production, had 27 sacks in the last two seasons... Durability has never been questioned, has never dealt with any serious injuries or missed substantial playing time... High-potential player in the NFL if in the right system and in the right role... Similar to Elvis Dumervil in skill set, can line up in many different fronts as a positional pass rusher... Has shown very good speed for his size... May take some time to develop in the NFL, but has a lot of upside and will always find playing time because of intensity and high motor.

Negatives: Often blitzes much too deep off the end, which allows blockers to push him away from the interior of the pocket with relative ease... Needs to develop quicker change-of-direction pass-rushing moves, tends to take a straight line to the quarterback and end up away from the play... Is purely a pass rusher, does not have the bulk or instincts to change directions and get to the ball carrier on draw and counter plays... Looks like a liability at times, can take himself completely out of big plays by not utilizing multiple pass-rushing techniques... Can get sucked up in the line when rushing inside, does not have the upper-body strength or powerful punch to shed larger blockers at the line... Is simply not an every-down linebacker, does not possess the ability to run with tight ends and running backs in coverage... Is not consistent defending the run, gets out of position easily and often loses track of ball carrier... Not a unique athlete, takes a while to accelerate to top speed.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1620879

The highly-touted Texas recruit plays the "joker" position, a defensive end/rush linebacker hybrid spot at which he almost always was standing up at the nine-technique position outside the left or right tackle. Though some scouts will label him a one-trick pony as a pass rusher without great size, the increased use of the 3-4 base scheme in the NFL and his explosiveness off the edge could earn him a high draft slot.
Read & React: Overall instincts for the position, particularly containment and run responsibility and reaction, are questionable since he is primarily used in a "sic 'em" role. Still getting a feel for coverage but reacts quickly when the ball is thrown to the flat. Good feel for pass rush. He sniffs out indecision in the passer and senses weakness in an offensive tackle. Knows when to go for the ball or big hit on to create turnovers.
Run defense: Improving against the run, but must be more consistent to become an elite all-around player. Plays with more strength than expected; is adequate grounding his hold on the move when engaged but does lose his balance. Willing to lower his shoulder against pulling guards to fill inside gaps. Teams take advantage of his continual edge rushing to get a running lane outside. Overruns plays with aggressive angles and a lack of focus on the ball. Crashes down on plays if he senses an inside run, but lacks the explosive punch to knock back fullback or tackle blocks. Inconsistent chaser on the back side, could increase his tackle production with more effort.
Pass defense: Could excel in this part of the game because of his fluidity and quickness, but is still raw in coverage. Mirrors running backs and tight ends off the line into the flat and downfield. Athletic enough to drop deep, keeps one eye on the running back and the other on the quarterback. Is not aware of receivers behind him. Needs to get his hands up to clog passing lanes more consistently when unable to reach the passer. Must improve his hands for the interception.
Pass Rush/Blitz: Greatest area of strength of this stand-up defensive end. Extremely quick around the corner. Gets skinny to penetrate when shooting the inside gap. Elite closing speed to the quarterback, explodes to drive them into the ground or uses his length to wrap up even the most mobile passers. Dips shoulder to get under the pads of taller tackles, shortening the pocket. Feels cut blocks and uses his hands and quickness to beat them. Good arm-over, spin and outside-in change-up moves to get his man off-balance after turning the corner on previous plays. Average strength and hand usage to free himself after initial contact. Might push man off-balance once getting him moving up the field, but too often stopped after his first move when facing opponents with good lateral movement. Capable of leveraging tackles back into the pocket, but lacks great length or bulk to take on massive NFL tackles.

 

[Snakester]

I think he will be our pick. To me there are 6 guys that could be our pick and Miller is the most likely. The others are Robert Quinn, Blaine Gabbert, Cam Newton, AJ Green and Peterson. I think the only way we take Green is if the front office is ether going to trade Fitz or they really feel that Fitz is going to leave. I think it is really going to come down to whether they like Von Miller or Robert Quinn the best.

 

[WildBB]

I think he will be our pick. To me there are 6 guys that could be our pick and Miller is the most likely. The others are Robert Quinn, Blaine Gabbert, Cam Newton, AJ Green and Peterson. I think the only way we take Green is if the front office is ether going to trade Fitz or they really feel that Fitz is going to leave. I think it is really going to come down to whether they like Von Miller or Robert Quinn the best.

Nobody is saying much about Quinn having character issues. I believe he was suspended for awhile?

All I need to know about Miller pretty much the initial post says it all:


However, will get a bit upright at times when just trying to win with his initial burst and can be pushed past the play easily.

However, he isn't nearly as effective once an opposing lineman is able to get his hands on him, as he tends to lose balance at times and can be easily kept at bay. Lacks ideal power on his bull rush, allows his pad level to get too high and struggles to disengage through the contact. But, he does display above-average strength in his hands and does a nice job extending his arms into blocks, keeping himself clean and suddenly disengaging from opposing linemen when trying to work his way inside initially off the snap.


These are NOT qualities you want in a top 5 draft pick. He will bring some bling now and then with some sacks when he has isolation with and avg. NFL tackle, but he will also be run over and through. Not something we need with this D. In short he is not a starter right off, just situational. That's not a #5 pick in the draft.

I'd take a shot at Green ahead of him and have again the most dynamic WR duo in the NFL, providing Peterson is gone. Green is a sure thing a dynamic talent worthy of the lofty draft slot.

Of course there is the possibility of a trade down, which would be preferable with the multiple needs this off-season. AJ Green should fetch a very good haul of picks IMO. He's a true #1 recieving talent.

So, where we sit presently - Peterson, Green or trade out.

 

[Snakester]

Nobody is saying much about Quinn having character issues. I believe he was suspended for awhile?

All I need to know about Miller pretty much the initial post says it all:


However, will get a bit upright at times when just trying to win with his initial burst and can be pushed past the play easily.

However, he isn't nearly as effective once an opposing lineman is able to get his hands on him, as he tends to lose balance at times and can be easily kept at bay. Lacks ideal power on his bull rush, allows his pad level to get too high and struggles to disengage through the contact. But, he does display above-average strength in his hands and does a nice job extending his arms into blocks, keeping himself clean and suddenly disengaging from opposing linemen when trying to work his way inside initially off the snap.


These are NOT qualities you want in a top 5 draft pick. He will bring some bling now and then with some sacks when he has isolation with and avg. NFL tackle, but he will also be run over and through. Not something we need with this D. In short he is not a starter right off, just situational. That's not a #5 pick in the draft.

I'd take a shot at Green ahead of him and have again the most dynamic WR duo in the NFL, providing Peterson is gone. Green is a sure thing a dynamic talent worthy of the lofty draft slot.

Of course there is the possibility of a trade down, which would be preferable with the multiple needs this off-season. AJ Green should fetch a very good haul of picks IMO. He's a true #1 recieving talent.

So, where we sit presently - Peterson, Green or trade out.

I agree with you about AJ Green. To me he is the top player in this draft. Has superstar written all over him. I would take him over any other player in this draft. I just don't see us taking him with so many greater needs. If the Cards are either going to trade Fitz or think there is no way they can re-sign him then we could see us taking Green if he is there at five.

Man it would be great to see us with both Fitz and AJ Green. They would be thee Dynamic Duo of the NFL.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree with you about AJ Green. To me he is the top player in this draft. Has superstar written all over him. I would take him over any other player in this draft. I just don't see us taking him with so many greater needs. If the Cards are either going to trade Fitz or think there is no way they can re-sign him then we could see us taking Green if he is there at five.

Man it would be great to see us with both Fitz and AJ Green. They would be thee Dynamic Duo of the NFL.

If you really think about it, other than QB, the Cardinals really don't have any great needs that must be addressed in round 1. Scofield provides the pass rush replacement for Porter and the Cards can get OLBs for depth and future replacement for Haggans as well as a solid ILB in later rounds. Acho, Beal and Reed for example.

So to me if the team isn't going QB it is a perfect time to go BPA and take either Peterson or Green.

 

[Snakester]

I think the Cards get their QB through free agency or trading. If we take a QB in round one I think that will be because there is no CBA thus no other way to pick up a QB.

I am not sold on Schofield yet. He didn't light the league up when he was in there. He shows promise, but I didn't see a bigtime passrusher in him just yet. I think regardless of what the team thinks of Schofield, we still need to bring in a bigtime passrusher.

Second we need a LT about as bad as it gets. If there was a top five rated LT I would say that would be the easy pick. Just like if Andrew Luck came out this year I would say he would be the easy pick.

I agree that we can get an inside backer later in the draft. We just have so many holes to fill there is just no way we can find that many new starters in one off-season

I am all about BPA. Get the surefire superstar instead of the good player that is an area of need.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Scouts Inc. highest rating at this point is 97.

Bowers, Fairly, Green, Peterson and.....................Miller.

 

[Pariah]

What's not mentioned in any of those assessments is the fact that it's going to be difficult for him to fail with a cool name like Von Miller. His name is so cool it's almost reads like fiction. It makes him bust-proof.

 

[Duckjake]

I think the Cards get their QB through free agency or trading. If we take a QB in round one I think that will be because there is no CBA thus no other way to pick up a QB.

I am not sold on Schofield yet. He didn't light the league up when he was in there. He shows promise, but I didn't see a bigtime passrusher in him just yet. I think regardless of what the team thinks of Schofield, we still need to bring in a bigtime passrusher.

Second we need a LT about as bad as it gets. If there was a top five rated LT I would say that would be the easy pick. Just like if Andrew Luck came out this year I would say he would be the easy pick.

I agree that we can get an inside backer later in the draft. We just have so many holes to fill there is just no way we can find that many new starters in one off-season

I am all about BPA. Get the surefire superstar instead of the good player that is an area of need.

I don't think the coaching staff agrees with us on this so I don't see them taking a left tackle at #5 and that is a major basis of my question as to what great needs the Cards have.

QB ??
RB Wells and TH
WR Fitz, Breaston, Doucet, Roberts
TE What difference does it make in the Cards offense
T Brown
G Faneca and Hadnot
C Sendlein
G Lutui
T Keith

DE Dockett and Campbell
NT Dan Williams
LB Haggans,Lenon,Washington and Scofield
CB Tolar and DRC
S Wilson and Rhodes.

I only see two starters other than QB who the Cards would be looking to replace and none that they have to. Now what we think needs to be replaced may be a different story.
Many say Brown others say Sendlein others (Porter's spot).

A Free Agent QB and the Cards could fill their needs with 2,3, and 4th round draft picks and pick up a stud like Peterson or Green.

I also don't think the Cards will see Von Miller as superior enough to Schofield to warrant using the #5 on Miller. Of course these are the same guys who drafted Cody Brown in round 2 and then let him go without his ever playing a regular season game so you never really know.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I don't think the coaching staff agrees with us on this so I don't see them taking a left tackle at #5 and that is a major basis of my question as to what great needs the Cards have.

QB ??
RB Wells and TH
WR Fitz, Breaston, Doucet, Roberts
TE What difference does it make in the Cards offense
T Brown
G Faneca and Hadnot
C Sendlein
G Lutui
T Keith

DE Dockett and Campbell
NT Dan Williams
LB Haggans,Lenon,Washington and Scofield
CB Tolar and DRC
S Wilson and Rhodes.

I only see two starters other than QB who the Cards would be looking to replace and none that they have to. Now what we think needs to be replaced may be a different story.
Many say Brown others say Sendlein others (Porter's spot).

A Free Agent QB and the Cards could fill their needs with 2,3, and 4th round draft picks and pick up a stud like Peterson or Green.

I also don't think the Cards will see Von Miller as superior enough to Schofield to warrant using the #5 on Miller. Of course these are the same guys who drafted Cody Brown in round 2 and then let him go without his ever playing a regular season game so you never really know.

No issue with your overall analysis, but there is some appeal in having two OLB's coming off the edge, and Washington up the middle.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

What's not mentioned in any of those assessments is the fact that it's going to be difficult for him to fail with a cool name like Von Miller. His name is so cool it's almost reads like fiction. It makes him bust-proof.

That's what I used to think until AJ Hawk came along.

 

[Duckjake]

No issue with your overall analysis, but there is some appeal in having two OLB's coming off the edge, and Washington up the middle.

Me either. But I would see a problem with having two smaller OLBs and so prefer getting someone like Beal or Acho or Reed to rush opposite Schofield rather than Miller.

Note: For the purposes of this discussion, picking up either Peterson or Green, I purposely left out the OLB prospects projected for round one.

 

[SuperSpck]

Of course these are the same guys who drafted Cody Brown in round 2 and then let him go without his ever playing a regular season game so you never really know.

Likely a possibly career-ending (and at the very least massively delaying) wrist injury.
While I'm bothered by another lost pick I respect the fact that when it was time to cut bait; they did.

 

[ARodg]

That's what I used to think until AJ Hawk came along.

Up until this year he was a bust, but I think after this year he's graduated to, huge dissapointment, but an okay player. That improvement isn't possible without a name like AJ Hawk.

Thus the name prevention idea still holds.

 

[WildBB]

Me either. But I would see a problem with having two smaller OLBs and so prefer getting someone like Beal or Acho or Reed to rush opposite Schofield rather than Miller.

+1 Really like Reed, but think he'll probably be gone by our 3rd round pick. Maybe one of the other two. Or a trade up into the 2nd round again.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

What's not mentioned in any of those assessments is the fact that it's going to be difficult for him to fail with a cool name like Von Miller. His name is so cool it's almost reads like fiction. It makes him bust-proof.

Dude i totally agree. There is a much better chance a player is good if their name is cool.

Has anybody else noticed this?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Dude i totally agree. There is a much better chance a player is good if their name is cool.

Has anybody else noticed this?

Jim Brown

 

[Krangodnzr]

I agree with you about AJ Green. To me he is the top player in this draft. Has superstar written all over him. I would take him over any other player in this draft. I just don't see us taking him with so many greater needs. If the Cards are either going to trade Fitz or think there is no way they can re-sign him then we could see us taking Green if he is there at five.

Man it would be great to see us with both Fitz and AJ Green. They would be thee Dynamic Duo of the NFL.

Green is good, but he's not even the best WR in the SEC.

IMO Alshon Jeffery is better. Him and super frosh Marcus Lattimore were the reasons South Carolina was in the SEC Championship and are poised to win the SEC East again after snagging #1 recruit (and future top 5 NFL pick) Jadaveon Clowney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luCalgYIw7M

 

[john h]

Nobody is saying much about Quinn having character issues. I believe he was suspended for awhile?

All I need to know about Miller pretty much the initial post says it all:


However, will get a bit upright at times when just trying to win with his initial burst and can be pushed past the play easily.

However, he isn't nearly as effective once an opposing lineman is able to get his hands on him, as he tends to lose balance at times and can be easily kept at bay. Lacks ideal power on his bull rush, allows his pad level to get too high and struggles to disengage through the contact. But, he does display above-average strength in his hands and does a nice job extending his arms into blocks, keeping himself clean and suddenly disengaging from opposing linemen when trying to work his way inside initially off the snap.


These are NOT qualities you want in a top 5 draft pick. He will bring some bling now and then with some sacks when he has isolation with and avg. NFL tackle, but he will also be run over and through. Not something we need with this D. In short he is not a starter right off, just situational. That's not a #5 pick in the draft.

I'd take a shot at Green ahead of him and have again the most dynamic WR duo in the NFL, providing Peterson is gone. Green is a sure thing a dynamic talent worthy of the lofty draft slot.

Of course there is the possibility of a trade down, which would be preferable with the multiple needs this off-season. AJ Green should fetch a very good haul of picks IMO. He's a true #1 recieving talent.

So, where we sit presently - Peterson, Green or trade out.

I sure would take Green ahead of Miller any day. Green is as close to a sure thing in the NFL as anyone in the draft. He surely will be the best player available if he is there when we draft. I doubt he will be there. Miller to me is much to small for a LB at a #5 pick. Our current safety would make a better LB than Miller IMHO. I just do not think he will be rated nearly this high after the NFL has there big look at these guys.

 

[az jam]

I sure would take Green ahead of Miller any day. Green is as close to a sure thing in the NFL as anyone in the draft. He surely will be the best player available if he is there when we draft. I doubt he will be there. Miller to me is much to small for a LB at a #5 pick. Our current safety would make a better LB than Miller IMHO. I just do not think he will be rated nearly this high after the NFL has there big look at these guys.

Miller is about the same size that Clay Matthew was at the Combine. He also had a far superior college career than Matthews. I'm anxious to see how he does at the Combine.

 

[Buckybird]

Miller is about the same size that Clay Matthew was at the Combine.

It's not the size it's the build. I'm not sold his frame will grow much more...we'll see. Miller looks smaller than AW & I've seen him play for most of his career living in Tx.

 

[ajcardfan]

I've seen him play most of his career at A&M and he's going to routinely be a double digit sack guy and a Pro Bowler for whatever team drafts him.

 

[ARodg]

It's not the size it's the build. I'm not sold his frame will grow much more...we'll see. Miller looks smaller than AW & I've seen him play for most of his career living in Tx.

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They don't look remotely similar. Clay's lower body is thick around as a tree trunk. Miller looks like he's running on tooth picks by comparison. The upper body is closer but Clay looks both bigger and more defined, admittedly the pictures aren't very good for comparing that.

 

[Buckybird]

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They don't look remotely similar. Clay's lower body is thick around as a tree trunk. Miller looks like he's running on tooth picks by comparison. The upper body is closer but Clay looks both bigger and more defined, admittedly the pictures aren't very good for comparing that.

You obviously didnt comprehend what I was stating...I'm in the same boat with you. Miller isn't built like most OLB's who have success in the 3-4 despite his weight & height. I think he's a great athlete whom I don't feel will be a dominant OLB in the 3-4.

 

[Chopper0080]

We could do worse than Von Miller. He is a proven pass rusher that would be going to a team desperate for a pass rusher. He has questions marks, but in an offseason that might be limited in our options, he might be the surest bet as far as drafting a pass rush goes.