2011 Offseason Thread

[BC867]

We can assume staying out of foul trouble is a matter of experience as with all big man.

Mark West is a very intelligent guy. After retirement, a stockbroker and a Suns executive. Not to mention his voiceovers.

But as a Suns center, he never learned how to stay out of foul trouble.

So many times during his tenure, the Suns had to play either a backup center or play a forward out of position with the game on the line.

Following a soft center in Alvan Adams, that is why our reputation of being soft in the middle haunts us in refs' calls to this day.

Nope, unfortunately we cannot assume staying out of foul trouble is a matter of experience as with all big men.

Look at Robin Lopez. The longer he played, the more silly, awkward fouls he committed.

 

[Cheesewater]

If you even out the minutes

Dwight career 36 mpg (3.6org 9.2drpg) 12.9rpg 1spg 2.2bpg 18.2ppg
Oden career 36mpg (4.5orpg 7.4drpg) 11.9rpg 0.65spg 2.3bpg 15.4ppg
Oden soph season 36mpg (4.7orpg 8.3drpg) 13rpg 0.61spg 3.5bpg 17ppg

Oden is not a bust because he is not talented. If he stays healthy he is easily leading the league in blocks by a wide margin (Bogut leads the league with 2.6 in 36mpg, Dwight gets 2.4 in 38mpg... Oden averaged 2.3 in 23mpg in his soph season..) and is in the top 3 in rebounding with Love and Howard.

When guy only averages 20 to 25 minutes a game because physically he can't hack 36 minutes a game, then that is a serious hit to his value.

The point of "per 36" is that that is the forecast of what a player would get if he played 36 minutes per game. Greg Oden has never come close to getting those minutes in his NBA career because he physically can't hack it. That should stop you right there from investing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Last time I checked you can get 6 fouls before you foul out!

yeah, but last time i checked, big men go to the bench when they're in foul trouble... which is why his minutes were so low.

i mean come on... you say "why bring up his stats" and then you bring up MADE UP STATS. Classic argument tactics.

You blow off "here's what IS" for "here's what could be IF he never got hurt (which he always does) and he never gets into foul trouble (which he always does). Good grief.

Not that it matters, those are stats from his first 82 NBA games. We can assume staying out of foul trouble is a matter of experience as with all big man.

Fact is Oden was a game changer and Portland looked like the best team in the league before his last injury.

WHAT?! they looked like the best team in the league? they were 13-8 21 games before he got injured at the beginning of his last season. seriously... he's a game-changer and Portland looked like the best team in the league at 13-8 before he got injured. how do you come up with this stuff?

 

[SunsTzu]

While I'm not really in favor of getting Oden it's not ridiculous to think he'll get in the area of 8mil per. Blazers are going to offer him the QO which is 8.7mil.

 

[Covert Rain]

Oh dear lord. Slinslin, if you have a team with Oden as your starter and Lopez and his backup, I think you would defect from the Suns to that team.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can speak only for myself, regarding these previous three responses. I would enjoy watching the Suns with Gortat anchored at Center for years to come.

I certainly can't hope for us to become an elite team, given our history of playing soft (and its consequences of bad calls), magnified by the current incompetent ownership.

But if we could add a quality backup Center, a legitimate backup Power Forward and (sadly) move Nash and move ahead with a replacement whom we could count on all season long (not an overwhelming task), I'd be satisfied at this point. Even with Frye at starting PF alongside Gortat.

If we get rid of Marcin, it's back to one big man on the court and that represents weakness in the NBA. Steve may have been the league MVP twice, but over a full season, Gortat is the team MVP.

It's like the old cartoon of four pizzerias on one block. Their signs read:

Tony's Pizza -- best pizza in the city
Luigi's Pizza -- best pizza in the state
Antonio's Pizza -- best pizza in the world

Marvin's Pizza -- best pizza on the block

Getting rid of Gortat after one partial season is a tease that I would not enjoy, as a long-time Suns fan.

I agree with your take for the most part, but if the Suns cannot improve their team in the next couple of seasons and remain in mediocrity, I can see where a Larry Nance type trade might become necessary. It would be a shame for the Suns to use up Gortat's value without putting enough talent around him. I would trade Carter, Gortat #13 and whatever they want back to Orlando for Howard.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think there is when it comes to dealing with the Suns. The Suns are not a very well respected front office in the NBA. Everybody thinks the Suns front office bends over when pushed.

Big men are a premium in the NBA. Especially top 10 big men. You simply cannot trade away Gortat for picks and future prospects unless your getting a very high draft pick or a future player that is a lock as a big man somewhere in that mix.

I don't want to go back to the Suns of old searching season after season after season for a legit big man. I have had enough of small ball.

No doubt the Suns FO is not respected. I'm thinking the Suns will not become relevant again until Sarver sells the team. Sometimes I wonder what Blanks does as the GM. If Blanks was pushing the trade for Brooks throwing in a first round pick along with Dragic, the future does not look bright.

 

[SirStefan32]

No doubt the Suns FO is not respected. I'm thinking the Suns will not become relevant again until Sarver sells the team. Sometimes I wonder what Blanks does as the GM. If Blanks was pushing the trade for Brooks throwing in a first round pick along with Dragic, the future does not look bright.

Well, I think the Brooks trade was a calculated risk. I think it was a bad move, but I am OK with the logic behind the move.

Brooks played some great basketball the year before. Another PG stepped up while he was hurt. I understand why they would make a trade for him.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well, I think the Brooks trade was a calculated risk. I think it was a bad move, but I am OK with the logic behind the move.

Brooks played some great basketball the year before. Another PG stepped up while he was hurt. I understand why they would make a trade for him.

I agree. This is one time I don't blame the Suns for trying. It wasn't working out with Dragic for whatever reason. I would rather the Suns try and fail versus sitting on their hands, doing the safe thing all the time which nets in the status quo.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree. This is one time I don't blame the Suns for trying. It wasn't working out with Dragic for whatever reason. I would rather the Suns try and fail versus sitting on their hands, doing the safe thing all the time which nets in the status quo.

"Trying" is nice, but it would have been better if the Suns FO would have made better decisions dating clear back to the time of Joe Johnson and moving forward to now. They need someone in the organization with basketball expertise.

 

[Covert Rain]

"Trying" is nice, but it would have been better if the Suns FO would have made better decisions dating clear back to the time of Joe Johnson and moving forward to now. They need someone in the organization with basketball expertise.

That is another topic all together. That's why I said in my original post I had no problem with the Suns making this move.

If you want to talk historically...that is a different beast.

 

[Mainstreet]

That is another topic all together. That's why I said in my original post I had no problem with the Suns making this move.

If you want to talk historically...that is a different beast.

My comments referred to Joe Johnson moving forward until "now." See below.

.... if the Suns FO would have made better decisions dating clear back to the time of Joe Johnson and moving forward to now.

Joe Johnson just represents the start of the Sarver mistake prone era which continues.

 

[SirStefan32]

My comments referred to Joe Johnson moving forward until "now." See below.



Joe Johnson just represents the start of the Sarver mistake prone era which continues.

Oh come on now, they've made good moves since then.

 

[slinslin]

"I definitely think there is a plan in place," the Suns' coach said. "I've never felt more confident that there was a plan in place. Lance (Blanks) and Lon (Babby), I have the utmost confidence in those guys."

"We have a chance to be pretty darned good," Gentry said. "The first 20 games last year, we were awful. The next 20, we were as good as anyone in the league. Then we had too much fluctuation.

"But this is the first time we've been able to sit down and talk extensively about the team, where we're going and what we need to add. And I'm very confident, I will say that."

"All the teams that have done well have maintained a core and not had a lot of changes," Gentry said.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...gentry-confident-direction.html#ixzz1LkE310MZ

Stop dreaming Alvin, ugh terrible terrible news for thie offseason.

 

[Errntknght]

"But this is the first time we've been able to sit down and talk extensively about the team, where we're going and what we need to add. And I'm very confident, I will say that."

Isn't it nice that our FO and head coach finally had a chance to talk to each other after a mere nine months. I'll bet everything will be peaches and cream from now on...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Stop dreaming Alvin, ugh terrible terrible news for thie offseason.

here's the ridiculous thing about his statement... THERE IS NO CORE. Most of it WAS traded or let go in the last 12 months.

good lord.

 

[BC867]

here's the ridiculous thing about his statement... THERE IS NO CORE. Most of it WAS traded or let go in the last 12 months.

good lord.

It illustrates that the best Alvin Gentry can do for the Suns is damage control, if only to the public.

The Suns Front Office catered to D'antoni. 'Even made him part of it.

I don't see them catering to Gentry at all. It's almost worthless for him to try to represent the team to the Press and public. But unfortunately, he has to do it after every game. The FO speaks up only when they feel like it.

 

[Covert Rain]

here's the ridiculous thing about his statement... THERE IS NO CORE. Most of it WAS traded or let go in the last 12 months.

good lord.

Thank goodness you said it. We have one player in Gortat that can be considered "core" IMO. Even if you buy the argument that a healthy Nash could be your core for another season, I am not convinced he will ever be healthy for entire season again. Grant is amazing for what he is doing at his age but you know what is coming. You know the wall is starring both these players in the face.

If the front office thinks that the Suns can have a core of Gortat plus two of the oldest starters in the NBA .....they are more clueless than I even thought possible. This team can't compete for a title without a MAJOR piece being added.

Holy crap fans. Strap yourselves in for long stint at .500 or less.

 

[Mainstreet]

Thank goodness you said it. We have one player in Gortat that can be considered "core" IMO. Even if you buy the argument that a healthy Nash could be your core for another season, I am not convinced he will ever be healthy for entire season again. Grant is amazing for what he is doing at his age but you know what is coming. You know the wall is starring both these players in the face.

If the front office thinks that the Suns can have a core of Gortat plus two of the oldest starters in the NBA .....they are more clueless than I even thought possible. This team can't compete for a title without a MAJOR piece being added.

Holy crap fans. Strap yourselves in for long stint at .500 or less.

I agree with this take, but could the Suns have a legitimate plan in place as Gentry suggests. The Suns do need a "MAJOR" piece and more. I don't see how it can happen unless Carter and/or Nash is traded. Is there a scenario where the Suns start to rise again?

 

[BC867]

I agree with this take, but could the Suns have a legitimate plan in place as Gentry suggests. The Suns do need a "MAJOR" piece and more. I don't see how it can happen unless Carter and/or Nash is traded. Is there a scenario where the Suns start to rise again?

You answered your own question. It can happen if Carter and Nash are traded to teams where they would help. Let's see how good our Front Office is, whichever one of them is really the General Manager.

 

[Snoop06]

Just throwin this out there...

With what happened to the Lakers I wouldn't be surprised if they try to make a move this off-season. IF the Suns FO is intent on making another run with Steve, any chance we could go after Pau or Odom? I don't think LA will get rid of Bynum. I bet they'd be interested in VCs buyout looking to clear space for Dwight/CP3/DWill in 2012. VC/#13/Brooks for Odom or Gasol/Blake ? I don't have any idea what Pau's value is/will be but I think he'd be a decent fit.

Again this is IF the FO wants another run with Steve (which I think is the wrong move but probably what they'll try to do).

 

[SirStefan32]

OMG, nobody is going to give up anything of value for a 37 year old Steve Nash. We are not talking about Chris Paul here, people. Expecting anything in return for Nash is a dream.

 

[Mainstreet]

OMG, nobody is going to give up anything of value for a 37 year old Steve Nash. We are not talking about Chris Paul here, people. Expecting anything in return for Nash is a dream.

IMO, you are way over the top here. Nash has value, however, he may be worth more to the Suns than what another team will likely offer. Jason Kidd still has value and he is 39 years old. I bet the Mavs are not looking to trade him.

 

[ninous26]

Damn, Kidd is 39? This guy is playing like he's 25.

 

[chickenhead]

Very curious about the Lakers. Wondering if they'll make a rash move with Bynum or Gasol. In the end, though, I doubt it, because there would be enough interest in both to make them realize the potential return.