2012 Free Agency Fun - Whether we need'em or not

[RugbyMuffin]

You like Ted Ginn Jr. but don't like Early Doucet?

Doucet is vastly more productive than Ginn Jr., and will likely still be cheaper since Ginn Jr. is a really good return man.

IMO keeping Doucet is win-win. Sure we need upgrades, but Doucet has shown to be a solid receiver option as a 3/4. Ginn offers next to nothing in that role.

Early caught Neil Rackers disease. As long as there is no pressure he is a very good WR. The minute the situation carries any weight or stress he becomes a horrible, horrible WR.

Tired of waiting for Early Doucet to become reliable.

 

[juza76]

Early caught Neil Rackers disease. As long as there is no pressure he is a very good WR. The minute the situation carries any weight or stress he becomes a horrible, horrible WR.

Tired of waiting for Early Doucet to become reliable.

i remember amazing catches of him against green bay in play off

 

[kerouac9]

You like Ted Ginn Jr. but don't like Early Doucet?

Doucet is vastly more productive than Ginn Jr., and will likely still be cheaper since Ginn Jr. is a really good return man.

IMO keeping Doucet is win-win. Sure we need upgrades, but Doucet has shown to be a solid receiver option as a 3/4. Ginn offers next to nothing in that role.

This. We're a better team with Early than we are with ASFN favorite Stephen Williams (great scouting, fellas).

 

[Chopper0080]

This. We're a better team with Early than we are with ASFN favorite Stephen Williams (great scouting, fellas).

Personally, I would sleep fine without either on the team. However, at this point and depending what level of contract Early is looking for, I think that Williams offers more for less. I think we have seen what Early brings to the table, and while I'm not sure if Williams is any better, I think we go with the cheaper option of the two. Sampson seems as capable as either of them.

 

[Chopper0080]

Both our OGs pull. Neither of them really drive blocks. Nicks only drive blocks; there's very little pulling that Nicks is asked to do in the Saints' system.

Just because a player doesn't do something, it doesn't mean that they can't. As I said, Carl Nicks seems as athletic as Hadnot, and Hadnot did ok for us this year.

 

[kerouac9]

Personally, I would sleep fine without either on the team. However, at this point and depending what level of contract Early is looking for, I think that Williams offers more for less. I think we have seen what Early brings to the table, and while I'm not sure if Williams is any better, I think we go with the cheaper option of the two. Sampson seems as capable as either of them.

LOL @ all of this. Williams and Sampson have shown anything, except that DeMarco can drop 70% of his chances on the season. I'm comfortable paying Early what KC paid Breaston.

 

[kerouac9]

Just because a player doesn't do something, it doesn't mean that they can't. As I said, Carl Nicks seems as athletic as Hadnot, and Hadnot did ok for us this year.

Agh... The strategy that brought is Stewart Bradley: $25 million backup.

You don't pay guys eight-figure guarantees in the hope that they can do what you need them to. They get that money because you know that they can.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm comfortable paying Early what KC paid Breaston.

And playing where for the Cardinals ?

#2 WR ? I have seen nothing to prove he can do this.

Slot ? We already have Roberts for that.

So, after lamenting signing a backup ILB for 25 million, you are ready to sign a 4th WR to a multi-year contract ?

Granted it is a given that you and I do NOT see eye to eye on the value of Early Doucet, but I question the reasoning is all.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Agh... The strategy that brought is Stewart Bradley: $25 million backup.

The point is valid, yet at one point in his career Bradley could do everything we would want him to.

And trust me, I am not defending the guy, I did enough of that during the season. I was really excited to get Stewart, and very disappointed he did see the field more.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

i remember amazing catches of him against green bay in play off

one game, going on 4 years ago.

Based on that logic Michael Adams should be used to blitz more in our defense.

 

[Stout]

The point is valid, yet at one point in his career Bradley could do everything we would want him to.

And trust me, I am not defending the guy, I did enough of that during the season. I was really excited to get Stewart, and very disappointed he did see the field more.

Actually no, he never did what we want him to do in his entire career. He was never a 3-4 ILBer. We hoped to convert him to play that position, but he played in a 4-3 his entire career before joining us.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I am actually hoping that Breaston is cut or waived in KC now that Haley is gone. At best he is their #3 next year. Is his price to high for that spot?

Could he come home on the cheap?

 

[Krangodnzr]

This. We're a better team with Early than we are with ASFN favorite Stephen Williams (great scouting, fellas).

Agreed. I like seeing players leave because they are legitimately replaced. Early Doucet has not been replaced yet.

Look at Green Bay's WR corps, and you see a group that outside of Larry Fitzgerald is remarkably better than ours. They didn't do that by letting James Jones walk this offseason (who IMO is Early Doucet's long lost twin in terms of talent). They kept him at a reasonable price and added more talent (Cobb). That's what we should look to do. And improve QB...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Agreed. I like seeing players leave because they are legitimately replaced. Early Doucet has not been replaced yet.

Look at Green Bay's WR corps, and you see a group that outside of Larry Fitzgerald is remarkably better than ours. They didn't do that by letting James Jones walk this offseason (who IMO is Early Doucet's long lost twin in terms of talent). They kept him at a reasonable price and added more talent (Cobb). That's what we should look to do. And improve QB...

I like this plan. Keep Doucet and add a Meachem or Simpson. There's nothing wrong with having 4 legit receiving threats. I can't see Early, Meachem, or Simpson being cost prohibitive.

 

[kerouac9]

And playing where for the Cardinals ?

#2 WR ? I have seen nothing to prove he can do this.

Slot ? We already have Roberts for that.

So, after lamenting signing a backup ILB for 25 million, you are ready to sign a 4th WR to a multi-year contract ?

Granted it is a given that you and I do NOT see eye to eye on the value of Early Doucet, but I question the reasoning is all.

Early Doucet in 2011: 54 receptions, 689 yards, 5 TDs
Jerome Simpson in 2011: 50 receptions, 725 yards, 4 TDs
Steve Breaston in 2011: 61 receptions, 785 yards, 1 TD
Malcolm Floyd in 2011: 43 receptions, 856 yards, 5 TDs
Robert Meachem in 2011: 40 receptions, 620 yards, 6 TDs

Early Doucet is what a #2 WR looks like in the NFL in the second decade of the 21st Century. Breaston got 5 years, $25 million, with $9.5 million guaranteed. I expect that you could probably get Doucet for a little less than that (maybe $20 million with $7 million guaranteed).

I'm sorry, but nowhere in the NFL is Early a 4th WR. Not even Green Bay. Do you really think that this front office is going to throw $30 million at a #2 WR after what they're paying Fitz? After seeing how they conducted free agency last year? C'mon.

I get that the grass is always greener, but I'm still waiting for the next free agent wideout success story.

 

[Mulli]

Early Doucet in 2011: 54 receptions, 689 yards, 5 TDs
Jerome Simpson in 2011: 50 receptions, 725 yards, 4 TDs
Steve Breaston in 2011: 61 receptions, 785 yards, 1 TD
Malcolm Floyd in 2011: 43 receptions, 856 yards, 5 TDs
Robert Meachem in 2011: 40 receptions, 620 yards, 6 TDs

Early Doucet is what a #2 WR looks like in the NFL in the second decade of the 21st Century. Breaston got 5 years, $25 million, with $9.5 million guaranteed. I expect that you could probably get Doucet for a little less than that (maybe $20 million with $7 million guaranteed).

I'm sorry, but nowhere in the NFL is Early a 4th WR. Not even Green Bay. Do you really think that this front office is going to throw $30 million at a #2 WR after what they're paying Fitz? After seeing how they conducted free agency last year? C'mon.

I get that the grass is always greener, but I'm still waiting for the next free agent wideout success story.

Victor Cruz was a good undrafted Free Agent. I have asked several times on here for one example of a successful free agent WR from 2011. I guess Breaston was a success. :success:

 

[Chopper0080]

Agh... The strategy that brought is Stewart Bradley: $25 million backup.

You don't pay guys eight-figure guarantees in the hope that they can do what you need them to. They get that money because you know that they can.

To my knowledge Stewart Bradley has never been a Pro Bowler. There are stupid risks and calculated ones. Banking on a Pro Bowl OG being athletic enough to pull is significantly less of a risk than banking on an injury prone 4-3 OLB making the adjustment to play SILB in a 3-4.

 

[kerouac9]

I like this plan. Keep Doucet and add a Meachem or Simpson. There's nothing wrong with having 4 legit receiving threats. I can't see Early, Meachem, or Simpson being cost prohibitive.

Fearless prediction: both Meachem and Simpson end up getting paid more than Braylon Edwards in 2012 free agency.

If Meachem isn't going to be cost prohibitive, why wouldn't he want to stay in New Orleans? Think he's just tired of catching passes from Drew Brees and wants to get laid out by John Skelton or observe Kevin Kolb completing pass after pass to the sideline?

Same with Jerome Simpson. If these guys can be had for four years, $15 million, with $4 million guaranteed, why do you think that their current teams would let them go?

 

[Chopper0080]

LOL @ all of this. Williams and Sampson have shown anything, except that DeMarco can drop 70% of his chances on the season. I'm comfortable paying Early what KC paid Breaston.

Until we get better QB play why would we invest $20 million, $7 guaranteed on a player that does what both Andre Roberts and DeMarco Sampson do? I get offering money to a guy to keep up your talent pool, but Doucet is redundent to Andre Roberts in my opinion. They both lack great speed, work mostly short to intermediate routes, and have marginal physical attributes. At least w/ bringing in a player like Meachem you get someone who can bring a new element to the offense by being able to stretch the field.

Doucet is nothing special. An athletically limited slot receiver that lacks concentration and focus which leads to critical mistakes in pressure situations.

 

[kerouac9]

To my knowledge Stewart Bradley has never been a Pro Bowler. There are stupid risks and calculated ones. Banking on a Pro Bowl OG being athletic enough to pull is significantly less of a risk than banking on an injury prone 4-3 OLB making the adjustment to play SILB in a 3-4.

Banking on a Pro Bowl OG to do something as well as an adequate OG forty pounds lighter than him, while at the same time guaranteeing him $15 million-plus, is a recipe for disaster. I know you are deeply in love with Carl Nicks, but what you're asking these guys to do is exactly the same thing.

How hoping that a guy you're going to pay $40 million over three years is going to be a different player than you see on tape and has been his entire career is a "calculated risk" is beyond me.

 

[Chopper0080]

Fearless prediction: both Meachem and Simpson end up getting paid more than Braylon Edwards in 2012 free agency.

If Meachem isn't going to be cost prohibitive, why wouldn't he want to stay in New Orleans? Think he's just tired of catching passes from Drew Brees and wants to get laid out by John Skelton or observe Kevin Kolb completing pass after pass to the sideline?

Same with Jerome Simpson. If these guys can be had for four years, $15 million, with $4 million guaranteed, why do you think that their current teams would let them go?

Because the Saints have to pony up for Drew Brees, Carl Nicks, Abrayo Franklin, Shaun Rogers and Marques Colston as well. Oh, and they have Lance Moore, Devery Henderson and Arrington.

Honestly, I wonder if they keep Meachem and let Colston walk since it would free up additional money and their offense is successfull by spreading the ball around.

 

[Chopper0080]

Banking on a Pro Bowl OG to do something as well as an adequate OG forty pounds lighter than him, while at the same time guaranteeing him $15 million-plus, is a recipe for disaster. I know you are deeply in love with Carl Nicks, but what you're asking these guys to do is exactly the same thing.

How hoping that a guy you're going to pay $40 million over three years is going to be a different player than you see on tape and has been his entire career is a "calculated risk" is beyond me.

Yup, I love Pro Bowl offensive linemen. Would love them even more if they ever existed on the Cardinals. I guess when considering the need to upgrade our offensive line, I prefer signing Pro Bowl players over terrible ones. Restructuring Levi Bown's contract and over drafting an OT in the first round is not my idea of improving our offensive line.

 

[Mulli]

Looky there, Nicks was drafted in the 5th round. Maybe someday the Cards will be able to do what it seems many teams can do:

Find guards in the middle rounds of the draft that can be plugged in and be serviceable.

 

[kerouac9]

Until we get better QB play why would we invest $20 million, $7 guaranteed on a player that does what both Andre Roberts and DeMarco Sampson do? I get offering money to a guy to keep up your talent pool, but Doucet is redundent to Andre Roberts in my opinion. They both lack great speed, work mostly short to intermediate routes, and have marginal physical attributes. At least w/ bringing in a player like Meachem you get someone who can bring a new element to the offense by being able to stretch the field.

Doucet is nothing special. An athletically limited slot receiver that lacks concentration and focus which leads to critical mistakes in pressure situations.

It's hilarious to me that you're comparing Early Doucet (who has made plays in pressure situations throughout his career--don't let a one-game example derail his entire career) with his 42 career games, 111 receptions, 1284 yards, and 7 TDs to DeMarco Freaking Sampson. You know, a guy who has 12 career games, 3 receptions, and zero TDs. A guy who caught 37.5 percent of his targets last year. LOL. LOL.

Why can't you bring in both a player like Meachem and hold on to Doucet? Isn't it smarter to (maybe) push Doucet down the depth chart and kick Stephen Williams or Chansi Stuckey off the roster than just try and plug a complete system WR like Meachem into Doucet's spot and hope he's as good with Kevin Kolb throwing to him as with Drew Brees?

You're making the same mistake with Early Doucet as the Cards made with Steve Breaston last year. You're better off keeping your own and continuing to develop them.

LARRY FITZGERALD IS THE DEEP THREAT FOR THIS TEAM. You're not paying him $120 million to run across the middle every down. The secondary deep target is going to be Rob Housler. This board's obsession with finding perimeter "burners" to complement Larry Fitzgerald is not only baffling, but flies in the face of current NFL trends.

Nate Burleson in Detroit had 73 receptions for 757 yards and 3 TDs for a Detroit offense that was completely incapable of running the ball. Doucet is able to deliver exactly what you expect from a #2 WR in the NFL today, and you know that he can produce in your system.

Expecting a WR from a system passing offense with a great QB to be nearly as productive in a new system with a mediocre QB is complete folly.

 

[Chopper0080]

Looky there, Nicks was drafted in the 5th round. Maybe someday the Cards will be able to do what it seems many teams can do:

Find guards in the middle rounds of the draft that can be plugged in and be serviceable.

It really would be.