2014 Draft morphing

[slinslin]

Bledsoe has serious knee problems and he is as good as he is because of his athleticism and strength. He is as good as he is because he goes strong to the basket and gets knocked to the floor over and over. I'd have no problem giving him a nice contract if I thought he was going to stay healthy. It's not that I think it's risky to sign him. I think it's certain he's going to miss significant time with injuries in the next several years and at some point he's just not going to be able to recover fully. If we sign him to a big contract I'll just have to hope like hell that I'm wrong.

Good god, people don't seem to get that the new max, or the max in Bledsoe's case will be something like 4yrs/58M$. It is not nearly the same as signing Penny Hardaway to 6yrs/70M$ in the past.
Giving that kind of contract to a 23yr old top player is very little risk at all.

Also "serious" knee injuries. Based on what? He did not have a serious knee injury, he had a knee injury, stop acting like he blew out his knees like Amare.

We will definitely re-sign Bledsoe. If we don't we will never spend our caproom as there are no free agents available better than Bledsoe really, he was ranked #1 FA on realgm for instance by the users. And even if we give Bledsoe top dollar we will have some room for more free agents, if Frye opts out I am pretty sure we could even sign another max player.

If we don't re-sign Bledsoe and extend the Twins, Dragic opts out next year for the max and is considerably older than Bledsoe out caproom next year will shrink a lot anyway. We need to cash in this offseason.

 

[HooverDam]

Slinslin you know Jahii Carson attends ASU, not UofA, right?

 

[SirStefan32]

The last I saw, Randle's wingspan was supposed to be roughly two inches longer than his height which is okay but less than ideal. I wouldn't draft him sight unseen if I were the Suns though. I would insist on working him out against bigger players. He has such excellent body control that I'm starting to come around to the idea he can score against a quality NBA defender but he doesn't have much of a back to the basket game yet and he doesn't make good decisions when double teamed either. He's not going to walk in and solve our problems. I think he'll score from day one but he'll be a turnover machine until he develops his other hand and learns to pass when doubled.

I'd rather have Wiggins than anyone in this class although he's still pretty raw. But unless we somehow get the number one pick I don't see that happening. There is all kinds of talk about who will go first but when the draft comes around I'd be shocked if it was anyone other than Wiggins or Parker. With Oden such a recent memory I can't see anyone taking the injury risk lightly.

One thing that translates from college to NBA every time is rebounding. Randle averaged over 10 boards a game if I remember correctly, so I think he will be a good rebounder. He seems to be pretty smart so I'd think he would find ways to score.

 

[SirStefan32]

Also "serious" knee injuries. Based on what? He did not have a serious knee injury, he had a knee injury, stop acting like he blew out his knees like Amare.

He had two identical injuries on the same knee two years in a row. That's pretty 'serious" if you ask me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He had two identical injuries on the same knee two years in a row. That's pretty 'serious" if you ask me.

I don't think he had identical injuries on the same knee two years in a row. He played in 76 games last year. I think he last had surgery back in 2011.

lots of guys have repeated scopes and it's not a big deal. Kobe seemingly had one every off-season for years. Now, I'm not saying it's not a concern. It definitely is, but to say it's "pretty serious" might be over-reaching a little bit and to say he had one two years in a row isn't the case.

 

[Catlover]

He had two identical injuries on the same knee two years in a row. That's pretty 'serious" if you ask me.

Anyone can take a hit like that and get injured but I really see no way to minimize the injury concerns here. The incident itself might not qualify as a "serious injury" but the long term issues are very serious. Obviously I'm in favor of keeping him (if the Medical staff buys in) but I don't know how we could ignore a reasonable trade offer if one came our way. It would be miserable luck though if we had to just let him walk for nothing or a bad sign and trade deal.

 

[Gaddabout]

Bledsoe is aggressive to the basket, just like KJ. He's going to get injured, just like KJ. I don't think that's really in question.

 

[Catlover]

Bledsoe is aggressive to the basket, just like KJ. He's going to get injured, just like KJ. I don't think that's really in question.

I can't really disagree with this but has no one watched Goran this year. I've never seen a player hit the floor hard as often as he has this season. He's tough but that floor is going to win it's share of battles.

 

[Mainstreet]

Good god, people don't seem to get that the new max, or the max in Bledsoe's case will be something like 4yrs/58M$. It is not nearly the same as signing Penny Hardaway to 6yrs/70M$ in the past.
Giving that kind of contract to a 23yr old top player is very little risk at all.

Also "serious" knee injuries. Based on what? He did not have a serious knee injury, he had a knee injury, stop acting like he blew out his knees like Amare.

We will definitely re-sign Bledsoe. If we don't we will never spend our caproom as there are no free agents available better than Bledsoe really, he was ranked #1 FA on realgm for instance by the users. And even if we give Bledsoe top dollar we will have some room for more free agents, if Frye opts out I am pretty sure we could even sign another max player.

If we don't re-sign Bledsoe and extend the Twins, Dragic opts out next year for the max and is considerably older than Bledsoe out caproom next year will shrink a lot anyway. We need to cash in this offseason.

Bledsoe is age 24. Still 4yrs/58M$ is a lot of money to be tied up for four years. However, if the Suns medical staff feel good about, who am I to say no. I will say I would consider any legitimate trade options in a PG rich draft.

 

[Catlover]

Bledsoe is age 24. Still 4yrs/58M$ is a lot of money to be tied up for four years. However, if the Suns medical staff feel good about, who am I to say no. I will say I would consider any legitimate trade options in a PG rich draft.

I agree, with all of this. The only thing that would really disappoint me is if we had to just let him walk for little or no value. I think highly of him but our future is more than just Eric Bledsoe and a few draft picks. More and more teams are using a similar two PG lineup as we have and I think it's the way to go but there appear to at least 3 or 4 NBA quality PG's in this draft than can give us much of what Bledsoe gives us right now. They probably don't have his ceiling but considering the injury risks it might be the way to go.

 

[PhxGametime]

Bledsoe is age 24. Still 4yrs/58M$ is a lot of money to be tied up for four years. However, if the Suns medical staff feel good about, who am I to say no. I will say I would consider any legitimate trade options in a PG rich draft.

IMO, if the medical staff feels good, it'll be easy decision but I'd like to add a PG in Draft regardless. I can't say I watched much College this year sooo would be curious to know some of the top PG's. I'd prefer to Draft a PG to groom for the next several years and incase Dragic/Bledsoe goes down, as well.

Unless the Suns can get a Star Forward via Trade, I'd try adding a player like Jordan Hill, Luol Deng, etc. in FA that is unrestricted... Suns could re-sign Bledsoe and Tucker afterwards to add to 1-3 Rookies (if Trade up). I'd play Deng at PF, Tucker has earned that spot.

Hill or Deng could be solid defenders at several positions, and could be good fits. The Draft is obviously before FA but if they could add PF that can defend, rebound with most of roster back - the Suns would have options to Trade up, Draft BPA, Overseas, Trade 1 Pick for next years 1st, etc.

I was hoping for SF this year but PF may be the Suns best option to improve. I'd go for multiple position PF (either also C or SF) because Tucker and Markieff definitely need their minutes. Also as much as I'd like to Trade for Star PF or C, there aren't going to be a lot of options. Star SF could be available but if the Suns have Bledsoe, Dragic, and Star SF starting; their next 2 best players would probably be Green and Tucker on bench - don't know if that's a good thing or not.

 

[Gaddabout]

IMO, if the medical staff feels good, it'll be easy decision but I'd like to add a PG in Draft regardless. I can't say I watched much College this year sooo would be curious to know some of the top PG's. I'd prefer to Draft a PG to groom for the next several years and incase Dragic/Bledsoe goes down, as well.

Unless the Suns can get a Star Forward via Trade, I'd try adding a player like Jordan Hill, Luol Deng, etc. in FA that is unrestricted... Suns could re-sign Bledsoe and Tucker afterwards to add to 1-3 Rookies (if Trade up). I'd play Deng at PF, Tucker has earned that spot.

Hill or Deng could be solid defenders at several positions, and could be good fits. The Draft is obviously before FA but if they could add PF that can defend, rebound with most of roster back - the Suns would have options to Trade up, Draft BPA, Overseas, Trade 1 Pick for next years 1st, etc.

I was hoping for SF this year but PF may be the Suns best option to improve. I'd go for multiple position PF (either also C or SF) because Tucker and Markieff definitely need their minutes. Also as much as I'd like to Trade for Star PF or C, there aren't going to be a lot of options. Star SF could be available but if the Suns have Bledsoe, Dragic, and Star SF starting; their next 2 best players would probably be Green and Tucker on bench - don't know if that's a good thing or not.

Oh man, I like Tucker, but they better address the forward situation. Young talent acquisition at both positions at the top of the list.

 

[Catlover]

Oh man, I like Tucker, but they better address the forward situation. Young talent acquisition at both positions at the top of the list.

We don't have a whole lot of roster spots to play with, who do you envision we should part ways with next season to make room for a pair of forwards. Randolph and Christmas come to mind but that's only going to free up room on the bench and I would think they'd need minutes too. Are you thinking we need to replace PJ this season rather than re-sign him?

 

[JCSunsfan]

We don't have a whole lot of roster spots to play with, who do you envision we should part ways with next season to make room for a pair of forwards. Randolph and Christmas come to mind but that's only going to free up room on the bench and I would think they'd need minutes too. Are you thinking we need to replace PJ this season rather than re-sign him?

We need an upgrade at starting pf. That can happen several ways.
1. Markieff can grow into it.
2. We can find a replacement for Frye.

Ok, I will step into this. We need an upgrade at starting sf. If we can get a new pf, Tucker will be Ok. But the combo of Frye and Tucker is just not enough. Our bench is OK.

We need an upgrade at starting C. Either Len or Plumlee need to improve and grow, or we need to find another answer. Both would be fine as bench players. If we do upgrade here, I would think Plumlee or Len would be traded. I have to think that Plumlee would be very good trade chip this summer, maybe as high as he ever would be.

So, most likely out is Frye. Tucker and/or Plumlee could go to the bench.

I really do believe we need only one player. It has to be a combo player not a one-trick pony. We need consistent low post scoring, better than average low post defense, rebounding, and range out to 18 feet.

 

[Catlover]

We need an upgrade at starting pf. That can happen several ways.
1. Markieff can grow into it.
2. We can find a replacement for Frye.

Ok, I will step into this. We need an upgrade at starting sf. If we can get a new pf, Tucker will be Ok. But the combo of Frye and Tucker is just not enough. Our bench is OK.

We need an upgrade at starting C. Either Len or Plumlee need to improve and grow, or we need to find another answer. Both would be fine as bench players. If we do upgrade here, I would think Plumlee or Len would be traded. I have to think that Plumlee would be very good trade chip this summer, maybe as high as he ever would be.

So, most likely out is Frye. Tucker and/or Plumlee could go to the bench.

I really do believe we need only one player. It has to be a combo player not a one-trick pony. We need consistent low post scoring, better than average low post defense, rebounding, and range out to 18 feet.

Frye is under contract, I don't see us eating that deal. We can give away his minutes but I don't know how many players can replace what he gave us earlier this season in addition to the things he can't provide (low post game, rebounds etc). I think we're going to have to settle for someone that can give us the low post game or someone that can provide an outside threat but probably not both.

From a season long perspective, we come up short at the center position far more than the others. Next would be power forward. I'm not at all sure we're upside down on the small forward spot. He doesn't give us much of a scoring threat and that's usually a big part of the SF's job but he makes up for it in so many other areas. I don't think he's a great starting SF but I'm not sure he isn't average or thereabouts.

You're right that we need Len or Plumlee to improve but do we expect or demand it next season knowing that bigs almost always take a while to grow into their role? I'd say no. There is no urgency IMO. Fixing that spot makes us better but probably not great just yet so I think we ride with what we have. If we don't go after a Frye replacement such as Payne, maybe we could add someone like Jarnell Stokes to give us a player that brings the things Frye and Markieff don't and then upgrade the backup point guard spot. Unless, of course, we can package multiple assets for a game-changer big man which would clearly be the ideal option. I don't see that happening but this is a process without a deadline, IOW there's always next year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Frye is trade-able. He is considered a valuable stretch 4 and many teams in the league would love to have him (Houston, Clippers). He would only have a year left. He could easily be moved and probably get a return on the trade.

Like I said, if you improve at PF, Tucker is OK at SF. But only in that case.

The dilemma at center is interesting. Yes, it takes longer for bigs to improve, I have always been an advocate of patience. But this team is ready to contend now. I am not sure it is wise to wait on two players. It might be good to have a quality starter now, and a big that is improving off the bench. I will admit that Plumlee is close. He could produce more consistently by next year. The real question is whether he is hitting his ceiling now or not. Summer league will tell us alot.

I do believe that McD's plan is to collect and develop assets and then flip those for the championship core he covets. That is what Boston did when they got Allen and Garnett, to go with Pierce. I do not think he would hesitate to trade Plumlee, Green, the Morris twins, Len, Bledsoe (yes), Fry, Tucker, or even Archie to get a "championship core." The only player on this team that is close to untouchable is Goran.

 

[Catlover]

Frye is trade-able. He is considered a valuable stretch 4 and many teams in the league would love to have him (Houston, Clippers). He would only have a year left. He could easily be moved and probably get a return on the trade.

Like I said, if you improve at PF, Tucker is OK at SF. But only in that case.

The dilemma at center is interesting. Yes, it takes longer for bigs to improve, I have always been an advocate of patience. But this team is ready to contend now. I am not sure it is wise to wait on two players. It might be good to have a quality starter now, and a big that is improving off the bench. I will admit that Plumlee is close. He could produce more consistently by next year. The real question is whether he is hitting his ceiling now or not. Summer league will tell us alot.

I do believe that McD's plan is to collect and develop assets and then flip those for the championship core he covets. That is what Boston did when they got Allen and Garnett, to go with Pierce. I do not think he would hesitate to trade Plumlee, Green, the Morris twins, Len, Bledsoe (yes), Fry, Tucker, or even Archie to get a "championship core." The only player on this team that is close to untouchable is Goran.

If he's so tradable and he's so valuable that any team would love to have him then it makes you wonder why we'd be so eager to trade him? If your offense keys around a stretch big man than you absolutely need one. Right now, we need one. If we get rid of him we have less need of Tucker IMO and we'd need to move one of our two point guards also (obviously, Bledsoe is the likely one out). IOW, we could start all over with the re-building process but with perhaps even more assets in our pocket. I'm fine with that too but unexpected success this season might make that approach difficult for management to sell upward.

I do agree that McDonough is likely to view every piece at his disposal to be just that, at his disposal. Sarver would probably push to keep Goran as he was personally involved in re-acquiring him but I doubt even he would be off the table for the right deal.

But one of the problems I see going forward is in determining just how good we really are. Are we better than the sum of the parts or have some of these players really advanced their game up a level or two? If we're actually a good team on the way to perhaps becoming a great team then we can swap out a part or two confident that we're improving the overall product but what happens if we're just a lucky blend?

 

[JCSunsfan]

If he's so tradable and he's so valuable that any team would love to have him then it makes you wonder why we'd be so eager to trade him? If your offense keys around a stretch big man than you absolutely need one. Right now, we need one. If we get rid of him we have less need of Tucker IMO and we'd need to move one of our two point guards also (obviously, Bledsoe is the likely one out). IOW, we could start all over with the re-building process but with perhaps even more assets in our pocket. I'm fine with that too but unexpected success this season might make that approach difficult for management to sell upward.

I do agree that McDonough is likely to view every piece at his disposal to be just that, at his disposal. Sarver would probably push to keep Goran as he was personally involved in re-acquiring him but I doubt even he would be off the table for the right deal.

But one of the problems I see going forward is in determining just how good we really are. Are we better than the sum of the parts or have some of these players really advanced their game up a level or two? If we're actually a good team on the way to perhaps becoming a great team then we can swap out a part or two confident that we're improving the overall product but what happens if we're just a lucky blend?

We need more than a stretch 4. We need interior scoring, rebounding, and defense in the post. Other teams that have that (like Houston), know that Frye's ability to shoot from outside would open the inside more for Howard. Isn't this obvious? A stretch 4 is a great player to have if you have a post player who can take advantage of the spacing. Plumlee has done this in short stretches but not consistently.

My point is that Frye could be traded, and you might even be able to get something back for him. His contract is low-risk.

 

[BC867]

We need more than a stretch 4. We need interior scoring, rebounding, and defense in the post. Other teams that have that (like Houston), know that Frye's ability to shoot from outside would open the inside more for Howard. Isn't this obvious? A stretch 4 is a great player to have if you have a post player who can take advantage of the spacing. Plumlee has done this in short stretches but not consistently.

My point is that Frye could be traded, and you might even be able to get something back for him. His contract is low-risk.

 

[Catlover]

We need more than a stretch 4. We need interior scoring, rebounding, and defense in the post. Other teams that have that (like Houston), know that Frye's ability to shoot from outside would open the inside more for Howard. Isn't this obvious? A stretch 4 is a great player to have if you have a post player who can take advantage of the spacing. Plumlee has done this in short stretches but not consistently.

My point is that Frye could be traded, and you might even be able to get something back for him. His contract is low-risk.

You sound like I'm on the opposite side of this argument which isn't the case. I do think there's more to consider though. I agree stretch fours have their place. Our current offense demands one. The kind of inside player you want sounds great to me but it's going to cause problems for our two PG offense. Not all two PG offenses, just ours and because they are mostly scorers rather than shooters and they need that key open to work.

I have no problem if we decide to move towards a more traditional offense and part ways with Bledsoe, Frye and Tucker. But as I mentioned, that's basically starting the re-build all over again. If they can get Sarver behind the idea it's probably the best way to go. Let Plumlee and Len develop over the next few years while we search for or develop a power forward that can score and defend his position. Keep Green until we find a better option and use the Morris brothers off the bench or as part of a trade package to get that true power player.

 

[BC867]

I have no problem if we decide to move towards a more traditional offense and part ways with Bledsoe, Frye and Tucker.

I am quite surprised that any Suns fan would want to get rid of PJ Tucker. If Dragic has been the heart & soul of this team on offense, PJ has been our heart & soul on defense. Not to mention the rebounds he has gotten, no matter what the arrangement.

PJ Tucker has been our best defender from the start of the season 'til now. Wings, Power Forwards. And he has developed a specialty on offense -- the "3" from the corner, to avoid being a liability. I give him credit for that!

True, a Small Forward is traditionally a scorer (and not necessarily strong on defense) but with Dragic, Bledsoe and Green as Wings (even if their assigned position is Point Guard), if we have the current makeup at the 1-2-3 next season (and can add consistency at the 4-5), losing Tucker would take us a step back. Even if we lose Bledsoe and have to go with more of a traditional 1-2.

Although Tucker (with the strength of a tank -- no, not tank the season ) is a different type of player than Grant Hill, he fills that role that every strong team needs, regardless of the box score -- leadership on the court and in the clubhouse.

PJ Tucker is a Suns treasure! Not only wouldn't I want to see him gone. I would specifically want to see him here.

 

[95pro]

Tucker has been our best defender the past two years

 

[Mainstreet]

I have no problem if we decide to move towards a more traditional offense and part ways with Bledsoe, Frye and Tucker.

The Suns want to bring back both Frye and Tucker per GM Ryan McDonough. He has previously said he wants to keep Bledsoe.

http://arizonasports.com/41/1721786/Suns-GM-Wed-like-to-bring-Tucker-back

 

[Catlover]

I am quite surprised that any Suns fan would want to get rid of PJ Tucker. If Dragic has been the heart & soul of this team on offense, PJ has been our heart & soul on defense. Not to mention the rebounds he has gotten, no matter what the arrangement.

PJ Tucker has been our best defender from the start of the season 'til now. Wings, Power Forwards. And he has developed a specialty on offense -- the "3" from the corner, to avoid being a liability. I give him credit for that!

True, a Small Forward is traditionally a scorer (and not necessarily strong on defense) but with Dragic, Bledsoe and Green as Wings (even if their assigned position is Point Guard), if we have the current makeup at the 1-2-3 next season (and can add consistency at the 4-5), losing Tucker would take us a step back. Even if we lose Bledsoe and have to go with more of a traditional 1-2.

Although Tucker (with the strength of a tank -- no, not tank the season ) is a different type of player than Grant Hill, he fills that role that every strong team needs, regardless of the box score -- leadership on the court and in the clubhouse.

PJ Tucker is a Suns treasure! Not only wouldn't I want to see him gone. I would specifically want to see him here.

I think we can afford to start PJ in large part because of our stretch power forward. Take him out of the lineup and replace him with a traditional inside guy that rebounds and posts up and PJ has to move to the bench (IMO). And you're twisting my words here, at no time have I said I "want to get rid of him". I don't want to get rid of Bledsoe either and I think everyone on this board knows that and you'll notice his name was in that same sentence.

When Frye was holding up his end of the bargain back in December, I was thrilled with our forward combo. Together they each make up for the other's biggest weakness. PJ would make a great energy guy off the bench for us or anyone but I'm not sure he'd be willing to do that on our team after having been such an integral piece as a starter.

 

[BC867]

And you're twisting my words here, at no time have I said I "want to get rid of him".

'Sorry, you did say 'part ways' with Tucker and I quoted it as 'get rid of'.

But, either way, we'd lose the heart of our Wing/Power Forward defense against, most of the time, the opponent's top scorer. And our court and clubhouse leader.

Lose Fry--I'm all for it. Lose Bledsoe--the Suns have no control over that.

Lose Tucker--that is a step backwards.