2014 Draft morphing

[CardsFan88]

At the presser Warren when asked who he watched and modeled himself after was McGrady and.... Pierce.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns had FOUR picks. Did you want more?

"My gut feeling tonight is that McDonough is better at cutting trades than drafting players."

The draft ended less than 10 minutes ago and you're already declaring that McDonough isn't good at drafting players? Slow down a bit...

The next time you quote me, use the entire quote so as not to lose context.

These were my feeling last night. I made that clear. I do think McDonough got knocked off stride with his draft order when the Bulls traded two picks for Doug McDermott and the 76ers made the move to get Dario Saric. However, I think he recovered nicely with the #14 and #18 picks. Clearly the Suns tried to trade the 27th pick down to the last minute. This was their intent and had been so for at least a week prior to the draft. I cannot complain about the Suns then drafting a stash player in Bogdan Bogdanovic as a backup plan... however this was not their preferred option.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nice call.

Thanks Superbone for my noting my previous interest in Tyler Ennis. Also I said in a post on 6-25-14 the following:

This fits.

Paul Coro's latest mock draft has Rodney Hood going to the Suns at #14 and Zack Lavine going at #18. Also Artem Klimenko going to the Suns at #27.

I do think the Suns will be drafting a PG or combo guard at #14 or #18. However, I thought it might be PG Tyler Ennis.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sport...tion/11358837/

 

[JCSunsfan]

Im not saying hes going to be Pierce. Thats his absolutel ceiling obvi. He has good midrange game and his improvement fresh to soph is apparent in that capacity. He took more then most college guys do so his true % was low but if you watched his games can make the jumper from 20 feet and in. He just doesnt have long range distance. You dont shoot the % he did at 6'8 without having some semblance midrange game.

http://valleyofthesuns.com/2014/06/26/nba-draft-suns-live-up-to-promise-tj-warren/

Also Pierce was known for bad mechanics and shot coming out but improved as he grew into his game. well see how it plays out.

His true percent of what was low? His career shooting percentage overall was .555 (from 2 and 3). His career 2 point percentage was an amazing .598 especially when you consider that many of those shots were with a double team and twisting turning floaters after contact. Yes, his 3 point percentage was .315, but I did watch the video and his mechanics are not as bad as portrayed here. Those are just the facts.

 

[sunsfan88]

Paul Pierce is such a ridiculously good shooter, I don't see how he compares to Warren. Pierce has better ball handling skills also and obviously better defensive rebounding technique.

 

[sunsfan88]

Warren promises to keep dunking on everyone? I've watched a couple different highlight reels and haven't seen him dunk on anyone. Hell, haven't seen him dunk much period.

Haha I was thinking that at first also. When watching his highlight videos, I actually thought he was incapable of dunking because of how often he just layed it in or use the floater. Then I saw couple dunks, none of them with him posterizing anyone.

I think he might have been sarcastic and trying to get a laugh when he said he'll continue to dunk on people. It would be like Kobe joking and saying "I promise to keep passing the ball" and everyone would laugh.

 

[Chaplin]

Paul Pierce is such a ridiculously good shooter, I don't see how he compares to Warren. Pierce has better ball handling skills also and obviously better defensive rebounding technique.

You know, we talk a lot about stuff you can't teach. Well guess what? There is actually stuff you CAN teach. And ball handling and defensive rebounding technique are teachable skills.

We saw this with Len's drafting--a "what you see is what you get" kind of assessment, which never applies with ANY draftee. Even Lebron had some things to improve when he was drafted. And he learned. For a more down-to-earth comparison, Markieff Morris is a great example of a guy who had to learn on the job. Remember, his brother was a better player than him in college, and now the roles have been reversed in the NBA. And it's not because of his raw talent coming out of the draft. I'm by no means a Markieff fan, but he showed some good stuff this season that I can't ignore.

 

[sunsfan88]

You know, we talk a lot about stuff you can't teach. Well guess what? There is actually stuff you CAN teach. And ball handling and defensive rebounding technique are teachable skills.

We saw this with Len's drafting--a "what you see is what you get" kind of assessment, which never applies with ANY draftee. Even Lebron had some things to improve when he was drafted. And he learned. For a more down-to-earth comparison, Markieff Morris is a great example of a guy who had to learn on the job. Remember, his brother was a better player than him in college, and now the roles have been reversed in the NBA. And it's not because of his raw talent coming out of the draft. I'm by no means a Markieff fan, but he showed some good stuff this season that I can't ignore.

Sure its possible but I think the chances of TJ Warren being a player like Paul Pierce is at about 2%. Pierce is one of the best shooters this game has had, especially off the dribble. Its extremely rare to see someone improve that much. And ball handling is also something I just don't see how Warren can get to Pierce's level.

And I love Kieff and of course he has improved a ton. His game was better suited for the NBA cause he has much better size than his brother and a defined position while his brother is a tweener. Kieff has made dramatic improvements but I don't think he's even close to resembling any HOFer GOAT and neither do I think he ever will.

I think Warren could turn out to be a solid player for us, but I don't see any realistic chance of him turning into a HOFer.

 

[tobiazz]

Paul Pierce is such a ridiculously good shooter, I don't see how he compares to Warren. Pierce has better ball handling skills also and obviously better defensive rebounding technique.

He's not compared to Paul Pierce because of shooting. He's compared because of the way they finish around the hoop. That's it.

 

[JS22]

The next time you quote me, use the entire quote so as not to lose context.

These were my feeling last night. I made that clear. I do think McDonough got knocked off stride with his draft order when the Bulls traded two picks for Doug McDermott and the 76ers made the move to get Dario Saric. However, I think he recovered nicely with the #14 and #18 picks. Clearly the Suns tried to trade the 27th pick down to the last minute. This was their intent and had been so for at least a week prior to the draft. I cannot complain about the Suns then drafting a stash player in Bogdan Bogdanovic as a backup plan... however this was not their preferred option.

Perhaps the Suns simply did not want McDermott or Saric?

Also, I doubt we know anything about their true intent. Seems like the new regime keeps things really locked up. The Bledsoe trade came out of nowhere, for example. And all I've been hearing about is Payne and Harris. Yet the Suns went in totally different directions at 14 and 18.

I don't know how we can legitimately judge anything until at least a few years from now.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Sure its possible but I think the chances of TJ Warren being a player like Paul Pierce is at about 2%. Pierce is one of the best shooters this game has had, especially off the dribble. Its extremely rare to see someone improve that much. And ball handling is also something I just don't see how Warren can get to Pierce's level.

And I love Kieff and of course he has improved a ton. His game was better suited for the NBA cause he has much better size than his brother and a defined position while his brother is a tweener. Kieff has made dramatic improvements but I don't think he's even close to resembling any HOFer GOAT and neither do I think he ever will.

I think Warren could turn out to be a solid player for us, but I don't see any realistic chance of him turning into a HOFer.

Paul Pierce is such a ridiculously good shooter, I don't see how he compares to Warren. Pierce has better ball handling skills also and obviously better defensive rebounding technique.

20 ppg.
.516 fg%
.34 3pf%
6.7 rb


Those are Paul Pierce's stats his junior year (his sophomore year wasn't even comparable). TJ Warren is better in every category except 3 point shooting and there the difference is slight. I am not making the case that he will be better than Pierce, but Pierce did improve significantly (plus he had some pretty good players to play with).

And what's this about the knock on TJ's ball handling. Seems fine to me? Where did that come from?

 

[sunsfan88]

I think Warren's ball handling is fine but I find Pierce's ball handling to be far superior.

You can plug Pierce at guard and you wouldn't miss a beat. I'm fine with Warren's ball handling though cause it's plenty good enough for a SF.

 

[sunsfan88]

He's not compared to Paul Pierce because of shooting. He's compared because of the way they finish around the hoop. That's it.

Got it, makes more sense now.

 

[Covert Rain]

You know, we talk a lot about stuff you can't teach. Well guess what? There is actually stuff you CAN teach. And ball handling and defensive rebounding technique are teachable skills.

We saw this with Len's drafting--a "what you see is what you get" kind of assessment, which never applies with ANY draftee. Even Lebron had some things to improve when he was drafted. And he learned. For a more down-to-earth comparison, Markieff Morris is a great example of a guy who had to learn on the job. Remember, his brother was a better player than him in college, and now the roles have been reversed in the NBA. And it's not because of his raw talent coming out of the draft. I'm by no means a Markieff fan, but he showed some good stuff this season that I can't ignore.

There are very very few examples of guys who struggled or were average in rebounding in college becoming better rebounders in the NBA. Usually it is the other way around. They get exposed even more. However, I will agree that I have seen guys become better shooters, better 3 point shooters and better ball handlers. There are some things you can coach up. I can't even off the top of my head think of a big man in college who averaged 8 or less in college and went on to become better rebounder in the NBA. I am sure there must be one or two.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There are very very few examples of guys who struggled or were average in rebounding in college becoming better rebounders in the NBA. Usually it is the other way around. They get exposed even more. However, I will agree that I have seen guys become better shooters, better 3 point shooters and better ball handlers. There are some things you can coach up. I can't even off the top of my head think of a big man in college who averaged 8 or less in college and went on to become better rebounder in the NBA. I am sure there must be one or two.

He is an excellent offensive rebounder. So there is that. His overall rebounding numbers are quite decent. I understand that poor rebounders in college rarely become good rebounders in the NBA, but he has already proven that he has some knack for rebounding. That might be fixable. He was his team's whole offense and he is all about running the break. He just was looking to get into transition too early.

7+ boards a game from our SF is better than we have had in a long time.

I guess I am optimistic about Warren because I just don't see that many huge flaws. You also see that killer instinct in his eyes when he plays. He plays like he is the best player on the court at all times and he knows it. Its not like Shannon Brown where he didn't think so but wanted to look like it. Its that killer instinct that sets players apart. I might be wrong and hugely disappointed, but my prediction is that he will be our starter at sf very soon.

 

[sunsfan88]

Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA

Sooo the Phoenix Suns are just going to run a five point guard set.

https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/482335663246041088

 

[Joe Mama]

https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/482335663246041088

Oh. That's hilarious. Remind me how many really good shooting guards there are around the NBA today? Remind me how many times Goran Dragic and Eric Bledsoe were abused by bigger, stronger NBA guards. There are many things I worry about with this team, but the fact that we now have 4 point guards on the roster is just not one of them. I have no problem with them drafting a point guard with the #18, especially when one of the point guards on the roster already is a RFA and the other one will be a UFA next summer. Ennis just would not have been my first choice.

Now let's go get Kyle Lowry and make that big free agent splash everybody is clamoring for here.

Joe

 

[sunsfan88]

Oh. That's hilarious. Remind me how many really good shooting guards there are around the NBA today? Remind me how many times Goran Dragic and Eric Bledsoe were abused by bigger, stronger NBA guards. There are many things I worry about with this team, but the fact that we now have 4 point guards on the roster is just not one of them. I have no problem with them drafting a point guard with the #18, especially when one of the point guards on the roster already is a RFA and the other one will be a UFA next summer. Ennis just would not have been my first choice.

Now let's go get Kyle Lowry and make that big free agent splash everybody is clamoring for here.

Joe

....Ennis is shorter and way weaker than both Dragic and Bledsoe. Goodwin is bigger than him also.

So the problem you mentioned becomes even more glaring with Ennis.

 

[Joe Mama]

....Ennis is shorter and way weaker than both Dragic and Bledsoe. Goodwin is bigger than him also.

So the problem you mentioned becomes even more glaring with Ennis.

I don't think he was drafted with the idea that he would ever be covering the other team's shooting guard, so I don't really see his size or strength being a huge problem I worry about him being too slow to stay in front of NBA point guards and that's the number one reason I would not have taken him if it was my choice.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Kennedy does not understand that Dragic is a top 3 shooting guard in the NBA.

Dragic/Green/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Ennis/Goodwin

Seems like a pretty traditional backcourt rotation to me.

I don't think any other NBA team has such a talented backcourt rotation.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't think he was drafted with the idea that he would ever be covering the other team's shooting guard, so I don't really see his size or strength being a huge problem I worry about him being too slow to stay in front of NBA point guards and that's the number one reason I would not have taken him if it was my choice.

Joe Mama

Same here. That and I am concerned about whether or not he will be able to score very effectively at all in the NBA.

 

[sunsfan88]

DraftExpress remains the best for mock drafts

http://analyticsgame.com/nba/grading-nba-mock-drafts.html

 

[Arizona's Finest]

His true percent of what was low? His career shooting percentage overall was .555 (from 2 and 3). His career 2 point percentage was an amazing .598 especially when you consider that many of those shots were with a double team and twisting turning floaters after contact. Yes, his 3 point percentage was .315, but I did watch the video and his mechanics are not as bad as portrayed here. Those are just the facts.

His 2pt Jump Shot % was 38% last year. Advanced Metrics.

You are preaching to the choir. I am a fan.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

I know we get all worked up about the draft, lottery, etc. But is there anyone from last year's draft that is even having much of an impact?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know we get all worked up about the draft, lottery, etc. But is there anyone from last year's draft that is even having much of an impact?

Well, let's see - the highly regarded 14 pick averaged 36 points, 6 rebounds and 2.5 assists in the NBDL. Does that count? For the most part though, the good ones still need a lot of seasoning. Jabari was probably a lock for ROY until he went down for the season (against us).

Steve