2014 NBA Finals Spurs/Heat

[desertdawg]

The Spurs were the old left over team after last year, but they stuck it out. They believed in their coach, I don't see the Miami team rebounding from that.

 

[Superbone]

Beasley good for a travel.

That brought back flashbacks.

 

[mojorizen7]

F'in Spurs...they've been doing it right for 15 years now. Unbelievable run of success with top shelf results.
"What do you think, should I hate em?"

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[BC867]

and they have quite possibly the best coach of all time.

After Red Auerbach, of course.

 

[boisesuns]

The Finals was really the first NBA i've watched this year, aside from a few other playoff games. The Spurs played amazing.

 

[slinslin]

I really don't think so. Their focus this season was otherworldly, but that's because they were so stung by last June's loss. Every key player in that organization just finished an entire year passionately fixated on redemption. The result was terrific, but it can't be repeated.

I think Duncan is done. He has nothing left to prove, and the appeal of leaving on top at 38 years old has to be more alluring than grinding for another full year just to try to stay there. I'm guessing that he plays a game or two next season as a ceremonial farewell and then hangs it up.

Indeed people underestimate what a chip on the shoulder like that is worth in terms of determination and focus.

See Bayern Munich losing to Chelsea undeservedly in the CL-finals. The season after they dominated Europe like no other.

Phoenix Suns this year are another good example, next season will be much harder. We might be worse than last season even if we have a more talented roster on paper.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Indeed people underestimate what a chip on the shoulder like that is worth in terms of determination and focus.

See Bayern Munich losing to Chelsea undeservedly in the CL-finals. The season after they dominated Europe like no other.

Phoenix Suns this year are another good example, next season will be much harder. We might be worse than last season even if we have a more talented roster on paper.

true, but this team could come in with a chip on it's shoulder after barely missing out on the playoffs. not even close to the same thing, but it could be a motivating factor.

 

[leclerc]

Thank the comish and his holy refs the Heat did not get another title handed to them. Next up, draft time.

 

[TJ]

not if he gets stuck at 2 titles. He's got big decisions to make this summer. he's got probably three SUPER PRIME years left and if he sticks with this motley crew on Miami, two of those years are gonna be wasted.

and a guy who only ends up winning 2 titles just can't be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan, Magic, Duncan, Kareem, Russell, or even Kobe/Shaq. He'll be looked at the same way Wilt is. An absolute freak of nature and a definitely an all-timer, but he'll live with the Wilt/Olajuwon/Birds in the hall of legends...which is no slouchy company, but still, not top 5 of all time. He's gotta notch at least a couple more titles to get in there, IMO.

Wilt is one of the top players ever, so if he's in that echelon of players, then that's alright. Wilt dominated his era of basketball.

Remember - Lebron still has four MVPs and two finals MVPs to go along with his two rings, and rings are a team accomplishment, not individual. Otherwise, Robert Horry and Adam Morrison would be worlds better than Charles Barkley.

 

[elindholm]

Remember - Lebron still has four MVPs and two finals MVPs to go along with his two rings, and rings are a team accomplishment, not individual.

I dislike the cliché about "making your teammates better," but there is something to be said for figuring out how to take advantage of your teammates' unique skill sets. Every player is unique, and every good player has a handful of things that he does particularly well.

Throughout James's career, however, we haven't seen him show the ability to get the best out of his teammates; he has never figured out how to get them in a position to play above themselves. True, that's nominally the coach's responsibility, but if you want to be in the discussion of all-time greats, you need to show some of that ability as well.

In the two titles that James's Heat won, what characterized their success was that Wade and Bosh, in particular, changed their games in order to fit around James. They got away with it, but that's not the right strategy. Instead, James should be able to figure out ways to maximize the idiosyncratic strengths of his teammates while covering up their weaknesses. That's very difficult, of course, which is what makes those who can do it so special.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I dislike the cliché about "making your teammates better," but there is something to be said for figuring out how to take advantage of your teammates' unique skill sets. Every player is unique, and every good player has a handful of things that he does particularly well.

Throughout James's career, however, we haven't seen him show the ability to get the best out of his teammates; he has never figured out how to get them in a position to play above themselves. True, that's nominally the coach's responsibility, but if you want to be in the discussion of all-time greats, you need to show some of that ability as well.

did you NEVER watch a single Cavs game? All he did was elevate the play of everyone around him to make those guys better. He took one of those awful teams to the Final and got others to the Conference Final even though they were almost always outmatched from a talent standpoint.

 

[TJ]

I dislike the cliché about "making your teammates better," but there is something to be said for figuring out how to take advantage of your teammates' unique skill sets. Every player is unique, and every good player has a handful of things that he does particularly well.



Throughout James's career, however, we haven't seen him show the ability to get the best out of his teammates; he has never figured out how to get them in a position to play above themselves. True, that's nominally the coach's responsibility, but if you want to be in the discussion of all-time greats, you need to show some of that ability as well.



In the two titles that James's Heat won, what characterized their success was that Wade and Bosh, in particular, changed their games in order to fit around James. They got away with it, but that's not the right strategy. Instead, James should be able to figure out ways to maximize the idiosyncratic strengths of his teammates while covering up their weaknesses. That's very difficult, of course, which is what makes those who can do it so special.

Then Kobe should've maximized his teammates post Shaquille, pre Gasol. And Jordan should've maximized his teammates pre Pippen.

Yes, LBJ had Bosh and Wade this season, but based on their contributions, the Heat were no different than the 2007 Cavs. Like Kobe and Jordan, Lebron can't do it alone.

 

[carrrnuttt]

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/even-espn-is-trolling-lebron-james-after-his-finals-loss/

For someone who has openly admitted to wanting to *surpass* Jordan, LeBron sure fails at transcendence.

He gets his steady numbers yeah, but he failed at delivering a transcendent game when his team really needed it.

Even when MJ was getting bumped off the Playoffs (by some All-Time caliber teams, I might add), he was still openly dominating the games where you could, in no way, even start to think about blaming him for the loss or lack of effort. He'd also openly get into his teammate's faces when he thinks they're slacking off, which Wade and Bosh REALLY needed.

 

[elindholm]

Then Kobe should've maximized his teammates post Shaquille, pre Gasol.

Sure, I'd agree that that's a weakness of Bryant's.

And Jordan should've maximized his teammates pre Pippen.

Yes, he should have. Most people agree that Jordan's maturity and increased basketball IQ were as crucial to his championship success as being paired with another excellent talent was.

Yes, LBJ had Bosh and Wade this season, but based on their contributions, the Heat were no different than the 2007 Cavs. Like Kobe and Jordan, Lebron can't do it alone.

But after every James loss, we're left thinking, "Hmm, I guess his teammates weren't as good as we thought." Doesn't that seem to be a disturbing pattern? When the Celtics lost to the Lakers in the 80s, did we come away thinking, "Yeah, well it's just that McHale and Parish aren't very good"?

O'Neal was better in Phoenix than he was in Cleveland. Varejao has gotten better now that James has left. Do you really think that Wade and Bosh would have been such non-factors in this series if you swapped out James for Jordan? Or for Olajuwon? Or even for Nash?

It isn't just that Wade and Bosh played poorly, but that they were very rarely put into situations well suited for their skill sets, diminishing though they may be. Diaw outplayed Bosh by a large margin, but is Diaw really the better player at this stage in their careers? Or is it something else?

 

[TJ]

It isn't just that Wade and Bosh played poorly, but that they were very rarely put into situations well suited for their skill sets, diminishing though they may be. Diaw outplayed Bosh by a large margin, but is Diaw really the better player at this stage in their careers? Or is it something else?

Then we need to look at coaching. Pop is the best NBA coach not named Phil in the past 20 +/- years.

The Spurs were a well-oiled machine as evidenced by Leonard winning Finals MVP; not one of the Big 3. Meanwhile, Spoelstra failed to adjust his defense to force more difficult shots for the Spurs. The only adjustment made was Chalmers being demoted to the bench, but Spoelstra still couldn't figure out a way to get Wade out of a funk, and Bosh was rendered useless.

 

[elindholm]

Then we need to look at coaching. Pop is the best NBA coach not named Phil in the past 20 +/- years.

Actually I think Popovich beats Jackson by a large margin, but we agree that coaching is a big part of the Spurs' success.

The only adjustment made was Chalmers being demoted to the bench, but Spoelstra still couldn't figure out a way to get Wade out of a funk, and Bosh was rendered useless.

All true. But I maintain that the select few players who can legitimately claim to be part of the "greatest of all time" conversation -- think for a moment about what that literally means -- should be able not only to overcome mediocre coaching themselves, but to empower their teammates to overcome it.

 

[Covert Rain]

Actually I think Popovich beats Jackson by a large margin, but we agree that coaching is a big part of the Spurs' success.

I agree...POP is one of the best of all time. However, I always struggle to quantify coaches. I mean pop has put together several different combinations of players but he has always had Duncan. Jackson had Kobe, Shaq and Jordan but he too had to deal with different sets of players, egos and still had to bring his guys in.

On one hand I give Jackson the edge is because I think it's harder to do it with a guard versus a big man. like Duncan. Not that I think it's easy by any stretch. However, if you ask most teams how to get it done....they are picking a Duncan "type" player 9 out of 10 times versus gambling on a good guard.

There are some things I think POP does better and that is being a tactician for example and he mentally destroyed the likes of the mental midget name D'Antoni. Either way...it's a great debate.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I dislike the cliché about "making your teammates better," but there is something to be said for figuring out how to take advantage of your teammates' unique skill sets. Every player is unique, and every good player has a handful of things that he does particularly well.

Throughout James's career, however, we haven't seen him show the ability to get the best out of his teammates; he has never figured out how to get them in a position to play above themselves. True, that's nominally the coach's responsibility, but if you want to be in the discussion of all-time greats, you need to show some of that ability as well.

In the two titles that James's Heat won, what characterized their success was that Wade and Bosh, in particular, changed their games in order to fit around James. They got away with it, but that's not the right strategy. Instead, James should be able to figure out ways to maximize the idiosyncratic strengths of his teammates while covering up their weaknesses. That's very difficult, of course, which is what makes those who can do it so special.

Isn't this the coach's job? LeBron has never had a high quality coach (and no, I don't think alot of Spoelstra)--nothing like Jackson, Riley, or Pop.

 

[sunsfan88]

Wade should issue a public apology for his awful play.

Realistically, Wade should not get a contract worth over the MLE. But I expect him to get overpaid like Kobe.

 

[slinslin]

Lebron has not shown an ability to make teammates better?

Daniel Gibson is just one of many examples.

It is not his fault that Wade is a terrible fit due to his lack of shooting.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Realistically, Wade should not get a contract worth over the MLE. But I expect him to get overpaid like Kobe.

All Wade has to do is sit tight and he gets paid 42 million over the next two years.

Also, Kobe will be getting paid more than Duncan, Ginobili and Parker combined next season.

LOL @ LA

 

[AzStevenCal]

All Wade has to do is sit tight and he gets paid 42 million over the next two years.

Also, Kobe will be getting paid more than Duncan, Ginobili and Parker combined next season.

LOL @ LA

So your point is the Lakers should trade for Wade?

Steve

 

[Brian in Mesa]

So your point is the Lakers should trade for Wade?

Steve

 

[carrrnuttt]

Loved this:

Please take a moment to admire the great LeBron for the special talent he is. It never gets old looking at the King's history. So many accomplishments Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan will never achieve:

1. Bronze 2006
2. Bronze 2004
3. NBA finals sweep 2007
4. Go entire Finals scoring 20 pts only one time
5. Quit on his team the year after he promises a championship
6. Dunked on by a highschool kid and then confiscate tape
7. Bail on the dunk contest 9 times
8. Only able to win a ring with 2 superstars
9. 7th best player in NBA finals series.
10. Average 1.8 pts in the 4th quarter of NBA finals.
11. Lose not 1, not 2, but 3 times in the Finals.
12. Host a national televised TV show to leave his team
13. Play on the same team as his moms boyfriend
14. Go 2 for 18 in an NBA playoff game.
15. Get stuffed by a player under 6 feet (Nate Robinson)
16. Flop every single game in the playoffs
17. Choke 4 out of 5 finals games by dropping FG% by 18
18. Vow revenge for 2007 sweep, then proceed to choke again

 

[sunsfan88]

It's really sad how people try so hard to diminish a LeBron.

Truth is that he is better than Kobe. LeBron will likely end his career as the 2nd best player ever.

How many Finals MVPs does LeBron have at age 29 & in his prime? How many does Kobe have at age 36?