2014 NBA Playoff thread

[Phrazbit]

Also Westbrook is absolutely killing OKC. One dumb shot after another, ignoring open teammates so he can chuck off balance 3s with a man in his face. They should start calling him 'The Mole'.

 

[elindholm]

Especially if they're going to have out of bounds reviewable to the extent we've seen with guys getting fouled and losing the ball out of bounds, but with no call on the play and fouls not reviewable the fouling team gets the ball.

The funny thing is that I suspect that officials have, for years, gotten into the habit of letting fouls go and making up for it by giving the fouled team the ball out of bounds, even if the out of bounds call by itself should go the other way. For example, Jazz foul Suns, ball out of bounds off Phoenix, but they ignore the foul and call it off Utah, so Phoenix ball anyway. The players know what's going on so they don't raise a fuss.

Now, with out of bounds being reviewable, this "trade" doesn't work, but in the heat of the moment, officials forget. So they let the foul go, like they always do, but then reward the fouling team when the make-up inbounds call gets reversed on protest. I assume they'll adjust eventually, but old habits die hard.

 

[Absolute Zero]

The ending of the Warriors game is an example of the NBA's use of the referees to get the game and series outcomes that they want. Sickening, but we have been seeing this for years.

 

[devilalum]

He definitely bumped him on the 4 point play, was with his hip. The one on the jumpshot he hit him on the forearm.

Crazy game, i thought for sure Durant got fouled from behind when the ball popped out when Tony Allen was on him, then he gets that crazy 4 point play and who expects a bucket from Perkins?

But Memphis was too much in the OT, they're a very tough matchup for OKC. I'm not a huge Scott Brooks fan but I'm not sure what he can change here, he needs Perkins on the floor for defense but then it gives Memphis an extra defender to help all the time.

Westbrook also has to look to get others involved, I get that he thinks he can score on Conley and he can, but he's got to keep everyone else involved it's just him or Durant too often.

OKCs biggest problem is the lack of any kind of chemistry between KD and Westbrook. Basketball is a team sport. This is why Nash was MVP.

 

[Catlover]

The ending of the Warriors game is an example of the NBA's use of the referees to get the game and series outcomes that they want. Sickening, but we have been seeing this for years.

I don't think so. I think it was just another example of how poor of a job these officials do, all of them. They miss the same kind of calls in every game and it just gets magnified when it happens at the end of the game. IMO, that last play was destined to be put under the microscope so it's probably too high-profile to be part of a conspiracy. OTOH, Paul did foul him three times on that play so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think so. I think it was just another example of how poor of a job these officials do, all of them. They miss the same kind of calls in every game and it just gets magnified when it happens at the end of the game. IMO, that last play was destined to be put under the microscope so it's probably too high-profile to be part of a conspiracy. OTOH, Paul did foul him three times on that play so maybe I'm wrong.

then again, the Clippers got jobbed in Game 1 at home in the last 20 seconds on a clear foul call that wasn't made and which the NBA literally called fault on itself. now maybe you can say the non-call here was conspiracy payback, but if the league really wanted a LA team to advance, why put them at risk in the first place losing HCA in game 1?

there's no conspiracy. refs suck. it happens...a lot.

 

[Absolute Zero]

then again, the Clippers got jobbed in Game 1 at home in the last 20 seconds on a clear foul call that wasn't made and which the NBA literally called fault on itself. now maybe you can say the non-call here was conspiracy payback, but if the league really wanted a LA team to advance, why put them at risk in the first place losing HCA in game 1?

there's no conspiracy. refs suck. it happens...a lot.

It seems the NBA makes more revenue the longer these series draw out. More games, more TV revenue for NBA, more exposure, more ticket sales, etc. But in the end, they would like to see the larger market NBA team (LA) and the team with the most players getting additional exposure through corporate ads (LA with the various Chris Paul and Blake Griffin ads) advance. So pre-game they will make sure the refs know which type of fouls are an issue, what they should be looking for, in order to bring this about.

Whether it works or not, who knows, but we know from the Tim Donaghy experience that this kind of thing happens.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Whether it works or not, who knows, but we know from the Tim Donaghy experience that this kind of thing happens.

that was gambling though...and whatever else Donaghy has to say about the refs has to be taken with a grain...no, a BAG of salt because he was trying to cover his ass for being a complete and utter POS.

 

[SO91]

OKCs biggest problem is the lack of any kind of chemistry between KD and Westbrook. Basketball is a team sport. This is why Nash was MVP.

I'm sure better chemistry would help, but they desperately need coaching.

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[Russ Smith]

Russ, I know you are a big UCLA fan, but Westbrook frustrates me every year at this time. Not only do I agree with you on the above post, but even Shaq, Kenny, and Charles are left scratching their head at his 28 shot attempts last night. How does this kid stand next to the league MVP (soon-to-be) and shoot as much as he does? He was 1-7 from 3-pt land! Westbrook is all kinds of talented, but I don't understand why Scottie Brooks lets him get away with this consistently. This is the single reason I can never see OKC winning the championship - regardless of much talented is on the roster.

If Westbrook had a little more "Nash/Stockton/Magic/Isiah/" in his blood, OKC wouldn't lose.

It's a double edged sword with him. Look at last night, down 17 he comes in playing hurt and goes off and they come all the way back and tie it (after he nearly blew the game). Then he goes like 0-7 in the OT and shoots them out of the game as the announcer said looking like he has no legs. He just has never learned what is and isn't a good shot.

I still put much of it on Brooks, the offense is so mind numbingly predictable that you basically have to not fall down for 18 seconds and then wait for Westy or Durant to get a shot in the last 6 seconds.

Memphis is a bad matchup for them because with 2 very good offensive bigs he feels compelled to play Perkins, and that gives them an extra defender to help on Durant.

 

[Russ Smith]

OKCs biggest problem is the lack of any kind of chemistry between KD and Westbrook. Basketball is a team sport. This is why Nash was MVP.

To defend him now, people say that every year and yet when he gets hurt and is out they're not as good. This year the difference wasn't quite as dramatic they had a very good record with Jackson, but they're not as good.

Now if you trade him for Steph curry then yeah maybe they get better. Worse on defense better on offense. But they are simply not as good without Westbrook.

he shoots too much, everyone can see it, but he does so many other things well it's a tradeoff. Last night is a perfect example they don't get close to OT without him last night, then he shoots them out of it in OT.

Brooks has to start coaching the team more IMO, he has to recognize when Westbrook is dominating the ball too much and take it out of his hands.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm sure better chemistry would help, but they desperately need coaching.

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Yeah this was the play where I think it was really obvious what I'm talking about with Westbrook. Ibaka has a dunk there if he just passes the ball. then it's a 1 point game you have a chance to foul and hope they miss one.

I don't think the shot was really 27 feet like the play by play said but I gotta believe they were told to shoot a 3 given how deep the shot by Westbrook and Durant's followup were. You don't get 4 points for shooting extra deep shots.

I just think the offense is so much centered around Durant and Westbrook that you can literally leave a big wide open at the rim and get away with it

 

[Absolute Zero]

that was gambling though...and whatever else Donaghy has to say about the refs has to be taken with a grain...no, a BAG of salt because he was trying to cover his ass for being a complete and utter POS.

I don't think that all of his comments related to gambling. On the one hand, I agree he had an axe to grind, on the other hand, sometimes only the people that are no longer part of the "system" are the ones speak up. Typically, those still part of the system have a vested interest in its continuation and fear loss of their livelihood should they speak up. This principal would carry over to the NBA as well.

 

[SO91]

Yeah this was the play where I think it was really obvious what I'm talking about with Westbrook. Ibaka has a dunk there if he just passes the ball. then it's a 1 point game you have a chance to foul and hope they miss one.

I don't think the shot was really 27 feet like the play by play said but I gotta believe they were told to shoot a 3 given how deep the shot by Westbrook and Durant's followup were. You don't get 4 points for shooting extra deep shots.

I just think the offense is so much centered around Durant and Westbrook that you can literally leave a big wide open at the rim and get away with it

I hear what you're saying, but like I said in the post you quoted, they need coaching. Why go for that 3, a semi-contested 3 at that point in the game, when your 2 star players are having pretty crappy shooting nights? If that was the call made by the coach, it's idiotic. If it's not the call, then he's clearly lost the team and needs to be replaced. I have to believe Pop, or Carlisle, or hell even Spo wouldn't have call for this play.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think that all of his comments related to gambling. On the one hand, I agree he had an axe to grind, on the other hand, sometimes only the people that are no longer part of the "system" are the ones speak up. Typically, those still part of the system have a vested interest in its continuation and fear loss of their livelihood should they speak up. This principal would carry over to the NBA as well.

I know all of his comments didn't relate to gambling. I'm saying whatever his comments about the league fixing things could very well be CYA because he was so reviled and was looking to shift blame.

 

[Russ Smith]

I hear what you're saying, but like I said in the post you quoted, they need coaching. Why go for that 3, a semi-contested 3 at that point in the game, when your 2 star players are having pretty crappy shooting nights? If that was the call made by the coach, it's idiotic. If it's not the call, then he's clearly lost the team and needs to be replaced. I have to believe Pop, or Carlisle, or hell even Spo wouldn't have call for this play.

Right I'm just saying it's hard to know there who to blame, Westbrook for taking that shot with a guy wide open, or Brooks because based on the structure of the play it appears they were TRYING to shoot a 3.

Now maybe the entire play was designed to get Ibaka open for a dunk and Westbrook just didn't pass it, in that case his fault, but I've seen them play enough the last 3 years to believe it's more likely Brooks' plan was we're down 3, make a 3 to tie it.

I agree, not a good offensive coach. As usual weird, Brooks was basically a bad defender who could shoot, but as a coach he seems much better at defense than offense.

I do think if they lose to Memphis again you can make a case that they have to make a decision either break up the band and trade Westbrook, or change coaches. If it were me I'd change coaches first.

 

[devilalum]

Every time the Suns are down 3 with more than 10 seconds to go EJ says the same thing, If you have a quick easy 2 take it and foul. Its Basketball 101.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The ending of the Warriors game is an example of the NBA's use of the referees to get the game and series outcomes that they want. Sickening, but we have been seeing this for years.

Did I miss something? A physical play by both players and the refs rightfully swallowed their whistles. This is the NBA playoffs after all. Even if you think the refs missed that call, plenty of others were missed on the Clippers most notably CP3 clearly anticipating the foul and shooting which should have earned him three FT's. Missed calls happen.

The whole conspiracy theory NBA people lose all of whatever limited merit they had when you realize that the small market boring ass Spurs make the conference or NBA Finals just about every damn year while the Knicks have sucked for the last two decades.

 

[Cheesewater]

The whole conspiracy theory NBA people lose all of whatever limited merit they had when you realize that the small market boring ass Spurs make the conference or NBA Finals just about every damn year while the Knicks have sucked for the last two decades.

A) To have a Hero, you must have a Villain

B) Even the best laid plans don't always pan out.

 

[devilalum]

Did I miss something? A physical play by both players and the refs rightfully swallowed their whistles. This is the NBA playoffs after all. Even if you think the refs missed that call, plenty of others were missed on the Clippers most notably CP3 clearly anticipating the foul and shooting which should have earned him three FT's. Missed calls happen.

The whole conspiracy theory NBA people lose all of whatever limited merit they had when you realize that the small market boring ass Spurs make the conference or NBA Finals just about every damn year while the Knicks have sucked for the last two decades.

I've always thought that star players get preferential treatment and not certain teams.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've always thought that star players get preferential treatment and not certain teams.

I think you are correct, that NBA stars get preferential treatment. It's been that way as long as I can remember. I don't like it, but that's the way the game is called.

Since NBA stars get preferential treatment, there is has been some carry-over in thought that star teams (big market teams) get similar treatment. I can see where some fans might think this. The NBA has left itself vulnerable for such beliefs.

As I view it today, NBA stars trump NBA cities in terms of preferential treatment.

 

[Hoop Head]

Everybody is talking about Thunder, Westbrook mainly, and their chemistry issues, coaching, offense and I know it's not a fact and there is no real way to prove it but I think they would have been better off with Harden over Westbrook. The debate at the time seemed to be Ibaka or Harden because those two were due extensions at the same time but Harden and Westbrook are both ball dominant guards and really one of them had to go for the other to reach their full potential. Comparing their stats is tough given the systems they play in but I ran a straight trade through ESPN's Trade Machine and was really surprised to see the results in the +/- Wins column. It said Thunder +11 and Houston -12. I don't think I've ever seen that big of a swing with just 1 player involved on each side and both are All Stars also and entering their prime.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine/?tradeId=n3tvsrl

Factoring in injuries to Westbrook, I bet the Thunder would be more than willing for a straight trade between the two, I think the Rockets would ask for more, like picks or prospects. I think Harden is better off the ball than Westbrook is but Westbrook's defense is much better than Hardens. At the time they let Harden go Westbrook was the better player but it seems the more accolades Durant gets the more Westbrook tries to take over games and really throws things off. He reminds me of AI when he was in Denver with Melo at this point.

 

[elindholm]

If Durant weren't shooting so poorly, no one would be complaining about Westbrook. Durant is shooting 40% overall and 27% from three. Both of the Thunder's losses have come in overtime. If Durant were shooting closer to his averages, this series would already be over.

Tearing down Westbrook is an internet fashion these days, but it's unjustified. Sure, he takes bad shots, but every player in the league has flaws. The Thunder would be fools to let Westbrook go, at any price, and they know it.

 

[Catlover]

If Durant weren't shooting so poorly, no one would be complaining about Westbrook. Durant is shooting 40% overall and 27% from three. Both of the Thunder's losses have come in overtime. If Durant were shooting closer to his averages, this series would already be over.

Tearing down Westbrook is an internet fashion these days, but it's unjustified. Sure, he takes bad shots, but every player in the league has flaws. The Thunder would be fools to let Westbrook go, at any price, and they know it.

Agreed. There are a lot of teams just praying that OKC will start to believe all this BS about Westbrook and make him available. And there will be no shortage of bidders if that happens, the Suns among them.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Did I miss something? A physical play by both players and the refs rightfully swallowed their whistles. This is the NBA playoffs after all. Even if you think the refs missed that call, plenty of others were missed on the Clippers most notably CP3 clearly anticipating the foul and shooting which should have earned him three FT's. Missed calls happen.

Apparently you missed Curry being hit on the arm while in the act of shooting on the last play of the game.

Today though, they were calling things differently. That would have been a foul today, but not with the game on the line Thursday night. On Thursday hitting a star player with the game on the line was ok.