2014 NBA Playoff thread

[Mainstreet]

Maybe, if by "Mason Plumlee type" you mean, "Someone like Mason Plumlee, except much better."

Not necessarily. I think Mason has a bright future ahead. My expectations are that the Suns need to improve the PF position although they do not necessarily need a star PF. For example, a player like Millsap or Faried could do wonders for the Suns at the PF position. Jordon Hill might even suffice. I'm sure there are other PFs that can be had that provide a rebounding defensive presence inside without mortgaging the farm.

True, but they can also be found in free agency. Getting stars is much harder than getting role players to complement them. Whatever you have to do to get a star, do it. Putting the other pieces in place is the (relatively) easy part.

When the Suns do not lock onto the idea that they need a star PF, they then open the door to finding star potential players at other positions using BPA scenario.

I don't think Griffin is the right target, even if he's available, but once you find the right target, treat it like the once-in-a-decade opportunity like it is, and do what you can to make it happen.

We agree about the philosophy but I just don't see that player being available at the moment. I'd certainly make a strong run at Blake Griffin if he were available but not at the expense of throwing away the Suns future. There are other positions where the Suns can improve.

 

[elindholm]

Not necessarily. I think Mason has a bright future ahead. My expectations are that the Suns need to improve the PF position although they do not necessarily need a star PF.

But they need a star somewhere. Without getting into an argument about where the cutoff for "star" is, let's just say that I mean someone above the Dragic level -- someone who is pretty much an automatic All-Star for several years running.

I'd certainly make a strong run at Blake Griffin if he were available but not at the expense of throwing away the Suns future.

But the Suns' future is much more than their hoard of low draft picks. They have great financial flexibility and, probably, a couple of valuable trade pieces. Yes, a pick in the 20s might turn out to be a really good player, but the odds aren't high enough to dictate holding onto those picks, just for the sake of keeping them, if you instead have the option of cashing them in for that really good player right away. If the picks "become" a star, it doesn't matter whether the mechanism was a trade or the draft itself.

 

[Mainstreet]

But they need a star somewhere. Without getting into an argument about where the cutoff for "star" is, let's just say that I mean someone above the Dragic level -- someone who is pretty much an automatic All-Star for several years running.

We agree. I think the Suns have accrued all the assets they need to get it done, however, I think the right opportunity has not arisen. My fear is the Suns will go after a star label player just so they can say they landed one. IMO, when the right opportunity comes along, it will be quite obvious.

But the Suns' future is much more than their hoard of low draft picks. They have great financial flexibility and, probably, a couple of valuable trade pieces. Yes, a pick in the 20s might turn out to be a really good player, but the odds aren't high enough to dictate holding onto those picks, just for the sake of keeping them, if you instead have the option of cashing them in for that really good player right away. If the picks "become" a star, it doesn't matter whether the mechanism was a trade or the draft itself.

With a potential 6 first round draft picks over the next two drafts, I think the odds of the Suns of drafting some really good players are excellent. I am not against trading draft picks but the idea of the Suns trading all 6 first round draft picks for a player not named Lebron or Durant got me going.

By the way, I love hoarding draft picks with McDonough being the GM.

I think McDonough is excellent at ferreting out talent that other teams have overlooked like Archie Goodwin. The counter argument is of course, the Suns can not keep all their picks unless they trade them for future picks or stash players overseas.

 

[elindholm]

I think McDonough is excellent at ferreting out talent that other teams have overlooked like Archie Goodwin.

I think that's an overstatement. Goodwin wasn't an unknown; it's just that teams above the Suns had their eyes on someone else. It looks like McDonough made the right call with Goodwin, but it's not like Goodwin was some great secret.

The counter argument is of course, the Suns can not keep all their picks unless they trade them for future picks or stash players overseas.

Sure they can. If you have to waive someone like Frye in order to make room for an extra rookie prospect, you do it. Let the rookies fight it out in practice or in the D-League to determine who is worthy of getting NBA playing time.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think that's an overstatement. Goodwin wasn't an unknown; it's just that teams above the Suns had their eyes on someone else. It looks like McDonough made the right call with Goodwin, but it's not like Goodwin was some great secret.

Do you think that Plumlee and Green were both lucky inclusions in the Scola trade? I know McDonough pushed for getting Plumlee.

Sure they can. If you have to waive someone like Frye in order to make room for an extra rookie prospect, you do it. Let the rookies fight it out in practice or in the D-League to determine who is worthy of getting NBA playing time.

I wouldn't be against it. However, the Suns wouldn't have to move Frye. He is a reasonable expiring contract with a player option. The talk is Frye wants a contract with more years. Good luck if he can get it as long as it is not with the Suns.

The Suns players that I see that are obviously expendable are Barbosa, Christmas and Randolph. Tucker may walk as a UFA if he wants too much salary. If the Suns move Frye he will be probably included to make salaries work or they may just keep him as an expiring contract. Ish Smith is such a bargain the Suns will likely keep him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Also another thought about draft picks. If the Suns do trade one or more of their first round picks they should try and get second round picks in return. The second round of the 2014 draft looks like it may have some good players in it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Westbrook has to be the most maddening player in the league. Sooooooo much good AND bad.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Joey Crawford should have never done that but man, Durant has not been clutch in this series.

 

[Errntknght]

Grizz beat OKC in overtime to take 3-2 series lead... I imagine Chees's beef with Westbrook is related to that outcome...

 

[Lefty]

Blame Westbrook for the loss.

 

[elindholm]

Do you think that Plumlee and Green were both lucky inclusions in the Scola trade? I know McDonough pushed for getting Plumlee.

They were calculated gambles, I assume. You think you see something in a player and figure, why not?

Green was a known commodity; he put up a very similar season with the Nets in 2011-12 as what he did this year with the Suns (only with many fewer games played).

As for Plumlee, the attributes that made him a first-round pick hadn't disappeared. If you read his summary on nbadraft.net (http://nbadraft.net/players/miles-plumlee), you'll see that it notes his leaping ability and that he "moves his feet remarkably well for a man his size."

I didn't know these things about Green and Plumlee, and I'll admit that I sold Plumlee short after seeing that he couldn't earn any playing time with the Pacers. But it's not my job to know these things. McDonough did know them, and that's good for him, but it doesn't blow me away as making him some sort of super-genius GM. The information was all out there. It simply isn't the case that he had some unique insight and scooped the rest of the league.

The Suns players that I see that are obviously expendable are Barbosa, Christmas and Randolph.

The Suns can walk away from those players right now; Barbosa and Christmas are free agents and Randolph has a team option.

I've lost track of what we were talking about. Didn't you just say that the Suns can't keep all of their picks? I thought you meant that they were short of roster space.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Grizz beat OKC in overtime to take 3-2 series lead... I imagine Chees's beef with Westbrook is related to that outcome...

He just makes so many incredible and baffling plays.

I don't know if he and Durant can really co-exist, but if I'm the Thunder, I'm firing Brooks and bringing in a bona-fide Coach before I decide it can't work.

And if you look at that team's offense in the playoffs, it's pretty apparent to me how much they miss Harden. Every great team needs 3 guys who can create on their own. It balances the team out and keeps your guys fresh for the fourth. Two guys carrying the load all game just leaves them spent by the end of games.

 

[Mainstreet]

They were calculated gambles, I assume. You think you see something in a player and figure, why not?

Green was a known commodity; he put up a very similar season with the Nets in 2011-12 as what he did this year with the Suns (only with many fewer games played).

As for Plumlee, the attributes that made him a first-round pick hadn't disappeared. If you read his summary on nbadraft.net (http://nbadraft.net/players/miles-plumlee), you'll see that it notes his leaping ability and that he "moves his feet remarkably well for a man his size."

I didn't know these things about Green and Plumlee, and I'll admit that I sold Plumlee short after seeing that he couldn't earn any playing time with the Pacers. But it's not my job to know these things. McDonough did know them, and that's good for him, but it doesn't blow me away as making him some sort of super-genius GM. The information was all out there. It simply isn't the case that he had some unique insight and scooped the rest of the league.

I was simply giving McDonough credit for what I thought was good decision making. Good GMs make these types of decisions. Bad GMs don't. I don't think I need to mention the Lance Blanks era.

The Suns can walk away from those players right now; Barbosa and Christmas are free agents and Randolph has a team option.

I've lost track of what we were talking about. Didn't you just say that the Suns can't keep all of their picks? I thought you meant that they were short of roster space.

I was looking ahead to the unlikelihood the Suns would keep and give significant playing time to potentially 6 first round draft picks over the next two seasons. Also I was mounting a preemptive counter argument to keeping all the picks although it technically could be done. It is just not practical. Some are going to be used as trade capital.

Now tell me what we were talking about.

 

[Mainstreet]

He just makes so many incredible and baffling plays.

I don't know if he and Durant can really co-exist, but if I'm the Thunder, I'm firing Brooks and bringing in a bona-fide Coach before I decide it can't work.

And if you look at that team's offense in the playoffs, it's pretty apparent to me how much they miss Harden. Every great team needs 3 guys who can create on their own. It balances the team out and keeps your guys fresh for the fourth. Two guys carrying the load all game just leaves them spent by the end of games.

I'd take Ibaka off their hands.

 

[sunsfan88]

Durant has been garbage in the playoffs. Tony Allen is eating him up alive.

I like what Charles Barkley said after the game "Grow some balls and post him up."

Durant's 6'11 and Allen's 6'4. Chuck's got a point.

 

[sunsfan88]

Most entertaining 1st rd of playoffs in a long time. Man how sweet would it have been to see the Suns in this...

 

[Russ Smith]

Agreed that Westbrook is still shooting too much. That drive and off balance miss he did that so much at UCLA, he's out of control and can't elevate because he's going forward so fast.

The weird thing with Crawford stopping the FT and then Durant misses wide left.

But to me the thing that nobody is talking about is the clock. At the end of the game Randolph tips the ball out, the refs review it to see who it went out off of. At the time they have 2.6 on the clock. TNT showed the replay over and over and by their replay it was CLEAR that the ball hit out of bounds somewhere between 3.0 and 3.1 So the refs come out and put 2.9 on the clock. I said to myself then I hope that doesn't impact the outcome and sure enough the putback by Ibaka is just barely late, if it's 3.0 it might count, if it's 3.1 it absolutely counts.

Nobody is talking about that but you could hear in the announcers voice when he said 2.9 that he was surprised it wasn't at least 3.

Great series.

And yes they need to replace Brooks, Westbrook has to shoot less but Brooks' offense puts him in a situation where damn near every possession comes down to him or Durant having to create a shot with 6 or less seconds on the clock. That's why he takes so many jumpshots, and it's why he will often force a shot in transtion earlier in the clock, he thinks it's better to try and get a shot early in transition than do it late against a set defense.

 

[Phrazbit]

The Westbrook move that irritates me most is the "From 27 feet out I'm going to jump strait into a defender chuck the ball in the general direction of the hoop, flail my arms out wildly and pray to get one of the lamer shooting fouls ever called"... he busts out that one about 2 or 3 times a game, and he will do it with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, and not only will the ref basically never ever give him that BS call, but the floppish manner in which he chucks his 3 only gives him about a 10% chance to make the shot... which sadly means he hits it about every 2nd or 3rd game, which probably convinces him its worth repeating.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Westbrook move that irritates me most is the "From 27 feet out I'm going to jump strait into a defender chuck the ball in the general direction of the hoop, flail my arms out wildly and pray to get one of the lamer shooting fouls ever called"... he busts out that one about 2 or 3 times a game, and he will do it with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, and not only will the ref basically never ever give him that BS call, but the floppish manner in which he chucks his 3 only gives him about a 10% chance to make the shot... which sadly means he hits it about every 2nd or 3rd game, which probably convinces him its worth repeating.

He has an obvious mechanical flaw on his shot he rushes the release so he's almost pushing the ball at the rim. It's weird too, as a freshman at UCLA he had a very realiable pullup midrange jumper. Then he made some 3's as a soph and sort of fell in love with taking longer jumpers. You'd think by now he'd either have corrected the flaw, or stopped taking so many 3's.

I love the kid he worked VERY hard to get where he is, but he's got to take the next step now and do some self scouting and figure out the things he can improve at to make the team better. #1 being shot selection.

 

[Phrazbit]

I wont deny his talent, when he is on he is one of the best and most entertaining players in the league, but his off nights where he is very self destructive seem to be happening more often than the good ones lately. Perhaps a coach with a firmer hand than Brooks (who may not have hands) could get his head on straight.

 

[Absolute Zero]

OKC and Indiana both survive to force game 7's.

I was hoping they would both get knocked out, so this isn't looking good for this underdog rooter.

 

[Absolute Zero]

So will the two Pacer players be suspended for leaving the bench and stepping onto the court during the scuffle?

 

[SO91]

So will the two Pacer players be suspended for leaving the bench and stepping onto the court during the scuffle?

For those that didn't see it

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[Cheesewater]

So will the two Pacer players be suspended for leaving the bench and stepping onto the court during the scuffle?

I hope they don't. It'll help illustrate what a Little Dictator David Stern is.

 

[Russ Smith]

Have to give credit to my Kiwi Steven Adams last night. What a game 5 blocks off the bench. Starting to show the talent that had him so highly rated, needs to work on his offense of course but he's really becoming a force defensively. Randolph is one of the craftier low post scorers in the league and Adams gave him fits last night.