2016-17 Around the NBA

[pokerface]

To get Irving we'd have to get LeBron too...then we'd lose to GS anyway.


Hello??

 

[Carolinacacti]

Ok I will say it to you Koolaid drinking jj fans. If the suns did not have bled I would trade jackson for kyrie

 

[Finito]

He's actually 25. You keep saying he's 24 but he's not. If you're going to gush over a player that much at least have correct information. He's a great scorer but I agree with Raze on his deficiencies. He's not the world beater you think he is.

What would you trade for him? You seem enamored with him and want to dispute any knocks on his game, realistically what would you give up for him and where do you think he'd lead the Suns?

I'm not gushing over him im realistic about what he is but some people here would have you believe he's a D league all star. Ok sorry he's 25 not 24 I know huge difference.

If give up Bled, Miami picks and they can take there choice of Chriss, Bender or Warren any one of those 3 can go.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Saw this trade suggested by a Cavs site. Can't see why the Suns would do this but thought I'd share it for the entertainment.

Cleveland makes out like bandits, only giving up Shumpert, Frye, and Felder and getting Bledsoe and Carmelo plus 2 picks from NY. New York does ok, getting Irving for Melo.



https://cavsnation.com/how-carmelo-anthony-fits-with-the-cleveland-cavaliers/

If at least one of those picks went the Suns way...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is a reason Irving is available. He's not a Westbrook, Harden, or Curry type of talent. He's a PG but a selfish "me first" type of PG. Is he really that much of an upgrade to Bledsoe? He's a worse defender and isn't that much better of a scorer. If he could be had for just Bledsoe, I think more people would be on board with the trade but it'll cost more than that, Bledsoe + one of our young pieces. People here were hesitant to include Chriss in a deal for Porzingis, which I didn't agree with, but if they were hesitant making that deal of course they'll question what we have to give up for Irving. Irving is older, 25, and is set on being the man on his own team. It's fine to want your own team, Joe Johnson wanted out for that reason years ago, unlike that situation though Kyrie is leaving a team that has won a championship and been to the finals the last 3 years and were favorites to return this year. Irving averages more shots than anyone on his team now, so it's not like he has to defer a lot in the situation he's in. It's fair to question a player who wants off of a team that is a championship contender. Would he rather play for stats or titles? It seems like stats based on what's come out recently and that's not the sort of player you give up a lot of pieces for.

He's not a Westbrook, Curry, or Harden type of talent. He's a good player but a below average PG. If we had a playmaker like Lebron, I'd be more interested in Irving but as a team's primary ball handler and facilitator he leaves a lot to be desired. Not sure why you brought up Cousins but he ultimately wasn't worth that much. A player is only worth what they can bring in and he was traded for a lottery talent and a lottery pick. Some people here wanted to throw all of our assets at the Kings for him, which would have gotten a deal done but he hasn't been able to win anywhere in the league so far, similar to irving. Sure he has talent but he's the type of big man the NBA is moving away from. Teams aren't successful building around plotting big men who work in the post and don't play defense. There are better options available like Drummond, who is younger, cheaper, and is a better defender. He also doesn't have the personality problems that Cousins has had.

The JJ comparison is actually right on point but I'd say the better argument is for kyrie. Jj played on a championship contender and still wanted to move to be the man. At least kyrie won a championship. It's easier to swallow when the team has accomplished something. And jj's team was meh before the arrival of Nash, so similar in nature to kyrie and lebron. Though jj had more talent with him pre-Nash (Amare and Marion) than did kyrie. And jj DID become the man. And as they surrounded him with more talent that team actually became good and then REALLY good. So imo your comparison actually sort of supports kyrie' decision to want out.

 

[Ronin]

CBS Sports NBA‏Verified account@CBSSportsNBA 2m2 minutes ago
Report: LeBron James is still recruiting for the Cavs, but they can't reach Kyrie Irving https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-lebron-james-is-still-recruiting-for-the-cavs-but-they-cant-reach-kyrie-irving/…

 

[pokerface]

A problem I have with the suns aquiring Irving is if he's so disgruntled playing with the Cavs how in heck could he be happy playing with the Suns? Going from playing with a top two team to a bottom two team would seem like jumping off a cliff to him. It would seem chances are almost nill in resigning him.

 

[leclerc]

I also don't want him. At least we have to get him really cheap because I don't think he'll lead a young team like this very far. I could be wrong off course.

Stay the course.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A problem I have with the suns aquiring Irving is if he's so disgruntled playing with the Cavs how in heck could he be happy playing with the Suns? Going from playing with a top two team to a bottom two team would seem like jumping off a cliff to him. It would seem chances are almost nill in resigning him.

It seemed to work for Joe Johnson. The Suns were arguably top two team when he left. Everyone said the western conference showdowns between the Suns and Spurs was the actual finals because they were the best two teams. Joe happily left for a bad hawks team. He became the man. The team gradually improved around him. And I think he was happy. Only difference is that kyrie actually got to go the finals and actually got a ring.

 

[Phrazbit]

It seemed to work for Joe Johnson. The Suns were arguably top two team when he left. Everyone said the western conference showdowns between the Suns and Spurs was the actual finals because they were the best two teams. Joe happily left for a bad hawks team. He became the man. The team gradually improved around him. And I think he was happy. Only difference is that kyrie actually got to go the finals and actually got a ring.

Joe Johnson left largely because he felt slighted in the early contract talks. If the Suns had given him the extension he wanted before the year things would have been fine.

I don't know how the Cavs were supposed to make Irving happy. He supposedly wants to be the focal point elsewhere, despite him getting a crazy amount of touches in Cleveland (and that Cleveland was garbage during stretches where Kyrie ran things).

If we trade for him and then miss the playoffs the next 2 years (which I fully expect would be the case) then what are the odds he stays? I bet he'd flee for the east for that easy contention and a way back onto all-star rosters.

 

[GatorAZ]

Joe Johnson left largely because he felt slighted in the early contract talks. If the Suns had given him the extension he wanted before the year things would have been fine.

I don't know how the Cavs were supposed to make Irving happy. He supposedly wants to be the focal point elsewhere, despite him getting a crazy amount of touches in Cleveland (and that Cleveland was garbage during stretches where Kyrie ran things).

If we trade for him and then miss the playoffs the next 2 years (which I fully expect would be the case) then what are the odds he stays? I bet he'd flee for the east for that easy contention and a way back onto all-star rosters.

Yep. Once the Suns gave the exact same contract JJ was asking for to Q-Rich he knew he was gone mentally. He was still a pro and played great that year so no hard feelings from me.

 

[Errntknght]

Bledsoe and Rose might work out for the Cavs. They seem to have mastered coasting through the regular season so both could get to the playoffs fairly rested. I don't see them beating the GSW team even so - short of getting John Wall I don't think they can really challenge them.

I don't mind losing Bled but I'd hate to wind up with Kyrie - mainly because I think Ulis it the kind of PG that will get our young guys playing their best. And playing the kind of basketball I like to watch. Truly bad defenders ruin the game for me and ball hogs are close on their heels.

 

[Phrazbit]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20143724/nba-nuclear-winter-forecasted-free-agents-summer-2018

Good article about the free agent climate and how last summer's insane spending is going to create a lot of bummed out players next year as the money dries up... which we've already seen signs of this year.

Len can't even get an offer, a dude like Z-Bo took 2 years 24 million... from the Kings no less.

The guys are the top of the heap will get those 200 million dollar deals, but the role players are going to be looking at contracts in the same range as they were getting a few years ago.

Maybe we don't need to sweat TJ Warren and the idea someone is going to throw him 15 mil a year.

 

[Mainstreet]

@Phrazbit

McDonough resisted in the chance to indulge in the spending spree this summer so I'm grateful for that. Hopefully the Suns will be in position to snatch a quality free agent next summer.

I am still a bit perplexed why the Suns were interested in signing Paul Millsap. His age and salary demands did not seem to fit the Suns plans.

 

[Phrazbit]

@Phrazbit

McDonough resisted in the chance to indulge in the spending spree this summer so I'm grateful for that. Hopefully the Suns will be in position to snatch a quality free agent next summer.

I am still a bit perplexed why the Suns were interested in signing Paul Millsap. His age and salary demands did not seem to fit the Suns plans.

They didn't seem to try very hard. Bailed on the Millsap stuff before he signed. My guess is they were thinking our PF bigs could use a mentor, kicked the tires on Millsap, found out how much money he wanted and said "no thanks."

 

[SirStefan32]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20143724/nba-nuclear-winter-forecasted-free-agents-summer-2018

Good article about the free agent climate and how last summer's insane spending is going to create a lot of bummed out players next year as the money dries up... which we've already seen signs of this year.

Len can't even get an offer, a dude like Z-Bo took 2 years 24 million... from the Kings no less.

The guys are the top of the heap will get those 200 million dollar deals, but the role players are going to be looking at contracts in the same range as they were getting a few years ago.

Maybe we don't need to sweat TJ Warren and the idea someone is going to throw him 15 mil a year.

Excellent point! There aren't many teams that will have that kind of money to spend.

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Mainstreet]

They didn't seem to try very hard. Bailed on the Millsap stuff before he signed. My guess is they were thinking our PF bigs could use a mentor, kicked the tires on Millsap, found out how much money he wanted and said "no thanks."

If the Suns were serious about a mentor, Zach Randolph was a better bargain. The Suns had to know Millsap wanted a big chunk of change. Also either player would have broken the Suns youth time frame.

Millsap is the type of player that a win-now team would want. Possibly, the Suns flirted going into win-now mode with Griffin or Millsap before the dollars started flying.

 

[Mainstreet]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This is interesting if true. I'm sure there would have to be more than filler involved along with Jackson.

 

[Mainstreet]

Javale McGee agrees to sign a 1 year deal for the veteran minimum with the Warriors.

I would think Len and agent would want to workout a multi-year contract with the Suns somewhere in the Alan Williams range.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/247046/JaVale-McGee-Agrees-To-One-Year-Deal-With-Warriors

 

[elindholm]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Maybe James forgot that he's the Cavs' GM, not the Suns'.

 

[sdscard4]

I could care less about Kyrie....I want Lamarcus still. Need that down low mid area player. I think he knows he shoulda signed with the Suns.

 

[Finito]

I could care less about Kyrie....I want Lamarcus still. Need that down low mid area player. I think he knows he shoulda signed with the Suns.

Whaaaaat yeah no

 

[Ronin]

Suns Wire‏@sunssource 18m18 minutes ago
#NBA Wire: Report: MIA offers Dragic & Winslow for Kyrie - Goran Dragic | MIA http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1538/goran-dragic… http://playerpress.com

 

[Folster]

Suns Wire‏@sunssource 18m18 minutes ago
#NBA Wire: Report: MIA offers Dragic & Winslow for Kyrie - Goran Dragic | MIA http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/1538/goran-dragic… http://playerpress.com

We can easily beat that offer with Bledsoe and one of Warren/Chriss/Bender. Plus Miami can't include a pick until 2023 because we own them. Also we have the ability to absorb salary, something that I don't think any other team pursuing Kyrie has.

I think my absolute max offer would be Bledsoe Warren and our 2018 top 5 protected pick that if not conveyed next year turns to the 2018 and 2021 Miami picks.

If they want us to take on salary then we start removing assets from the offer.