2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[Cheesebeef]

Still arguing with yourself about Ayton, I see. Not sure I have seen a single person on here arguing against that sentiment.

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I am a schizophrenic,
And so am I

 

[Hoop Head]

Heh, I was just thinking the same thing. I haven't seen one person here say they wouldn't take Ayton with #1 pick.

I'm pretty sure that's been pointed out a few times also.

 

[Raindog]

We lowly fans can't help but be influenced by the buzz on a player. As I've said before, white players are more likely to be considered "intelligent" than blacks. If you happen to have a white player whose court smarts really are in the stratosphere, great. But what's more likely is that his intellectual talents are being exaggerated by a racist media.

And both the NBA and the media are continually looking for the next "great white hope" to market because the general perception is that the league had, at least at one time, become "too urban" in it's makeup and appeal, and therefore was losing appeal to the American sports audience at large... although ratings and other objective measures never really supported that theory.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And both the NBA and the media are continually looking for the next "great white hope" to market because the general perception is that the league had, at least at one time, become "too urban" in it's makeup and appeal, and therefore was losing appeal to the American sports audience at large... although ratings and other objective measures never really supported that theory.

I think there was a time when that was the case, but I think the media has embraced the best players regardless of color at this point. I don’t feel like great white players get any more exposure than the great black ones at this point. At least not in the NBA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think there was a time when that was the case, but I think the media has embraced the best players regardless of color at this point. I don’t feel like great white players get any more exposure than the great black ones at this point. At least not in the NBA.

That could just be a function of there being so few great white players today.

 

[Raindog]

That could just be a function of there being so few great white players today.

Porzingis is literally the only white player in the NBA who could reasonably be described as "great" at the present... and that, at least at this point, is only marginally true, and may be in jeopardy depending on how his knee injury affects his future.

And it doesn't look like there's anyone on the horizon to change that... I guess depending on whether you buy into the Doncic hype or not. Certainly no one thinks Grayson Allen is going to be the next Larry Legend.

 

[BC867]

Once upon a time, white America used Blacks to entertain them. In music. In shows. Then sports, especially the NBA. They were never equals, accepted just as entertainers.

It is interesting that in the 71 years since Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in MLB, it has evolved. A reduction in Blacks. More Hispanics.

I don't have the answers. 'Just observing the trends.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Also, by quantity, a greater percentage of African-Americans are raised in ghettos. It is a shame, but it is reality.

It doesn't take money, or organization, for a bunch of kids to go to the schoolyard and play 3-on-3 basketball or 3-on-3 touch football in the street. As opposed to nine position players on each side playing baseball (which might explain why their participation in MLB has dropped, although I guess the same could be said for Hispanic kids but their MLB participation has grown). Or field a complete soccer team.

The point is that it is easier for African-American kids to develop basketball skills growing up vs. other organized sports.

Your 3-on-3 argument holds water for basketball but falls apart completely with football. Especially when you say it’s untrue for soccer. Easier to play 3-on-3 soccer than football. As is done across the globe regardless of socioeconomic background.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Heh, I was just thinking the same thing. I haven't seen one person here say they wouldn't take Ayton with #1 pick.

EXcept SweetD who thinks he’ll drop to 10 bc of the Arizona scandal.

 

[3rdside]

New vid on Doncic:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He doesn’t seem too flashy - although the passes at 1.20 and 3.10 are outstanding - and he’s got a pretty good eye for an oop.

At 6’8” you just need to be able to see a man and he does that with ease.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hoop Head]

New vid on Doncic:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He doesn’t seem too flashy - although the passes at 1.20 and 3.10 are outstanding - and he’s got a pretty good eye for an oop.

At 6’8” you just need to be able to see a man and he does that with ease.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doncic reminds me of Steve Smith when he played PG for the Heat early in his career. Not sure if that comparison has been made but it seems like everyone has tried finding an NBA comparison for him. With the Heat, Smith averaged 15.2 ppg, 3.9 rpg, and 5.0 apg on 45% shooting and 36% shooting from 3pt range. As a player he was also listed as 6'8 & 200 pounds. Smith was more explosive and athletic than Doncic is but I think Doncic's athleticism is picked apart too often. He's a fine athlete but Euro players seem to have their athleticism questioned more than NCAA players because they have less athletes abroad to compare them to in games. Compared to Smith though they share similar size, both are skilled shooters, and playmakers also. Smith went on to be more of a shooter and wing later in his career with the Hawks and Blazers but he was used as a PG upon entering the league, which I think will be similar to Doncic. He'll be used as a PG initially but he may be moved to a wing position once he's been in the league for a little while.

 

[3rdside]

Doncic reminds me of Steve Smith when he played PG for the Heat early in his career. Not sure if that comparison has been made but it seems like everyone has tried finding an NBA comparison for him. With the Heat, Smith averaged 15.2 ppg, 3.9 rpg, and 5.0 apg on 45% shooting and 36% shooting from 3pt range. As a player he was also listed as 6'8 & 200 pounds. Smith was more explosive and athletic than Doncic is but I think Doncic's athleticism is picked apart too often. He's a fine athlete but Euro players seem to have their athleticism questioned more than NCAA players because they have less athletes abroad to compare them to in games. Compared to Smith though they share similar size, both are skilled shooters, and playmakers also. Smith went on to be more of a shooter and wing later in his career with the Hawks and Blazers but he was used as a PG upon entering the league, which I think will be similar to Doncic. He'll be used as a PG initially but he may be moved to a wing position once he's been in the league for a little while.

I think that's a fair comparison - is not the first time i've heard it - and maybe a better one than Magic but I'm not convinced. Magic averaged 8.4 assists in 36 minutes (actually played) final year in college and Doncic is at 6.5 per 36 (but plays only 24 minutes). Smith averaged 3.6 in 38 minutes his final year in college.

- Euro assists are harder to come by, so add on at least one to Doncic, if not more (I guess..)
- Steve Smith was a SG who could do a decent amount of distribution.
- Doncic is being looked at as a PG primarily.

If you think he's going to get moved to the wing - which I personally don't think will happen - then I don't want him, because he will get eaten alive by the bigger, faster black wings...Anyone's interest in him at the very top of the draft should strictly be as a plus size, court visionary PG.

 

[3rdside]

*will get eaten alive unless he's a stojakovic like shooter but it doesn't look like that so far

 

[Russ Smith]

Heh, I was just thinking the same thing. I haven't seen one person here say they wouldn't take Ayton with #1 pick.

I used to prefer Bagley but at this point I think I'd take Ayton. He's more NBA ready, much stronger. Bagley plays harder but Ayton has actually played pretty hard this year, not nearly as passive as he was in HS the couple of times I saw him.

The Miller stuff is irrelevant, Rose and Mayo still got drafted high, so did Beasley, so did Anthony Davis etc. I can't think of an elite prospect who had money rumors around him that fell in the NBA draft because of them. The NBA is not naive they know these kids get paid

 

[JCSunsfan]

The thing about Ayton is that even when he looks unmotivated, he dominates. He walks on the court a lot. But that is just how he moves much of the time. It does not mean that he cannot or will not run. He reminds me of a heavyweight boxer fighting a lightweight.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Cheesebeef]

If God is asleep at the wheel on lottery day and the Suns are actually lucky enough to get Ayton, Chandler's 13 million salary will be worth every penny because I think he'll be a FANTASTIC mentor for Ayton, helping him learn how to play at your best, especially on D.

 

[Mainstreet]

Really liked the play where Ayton dribbled the ball down the court and dunked it.

If the Suns managed to draft Ayton it might be a makeup call for missing Kareem.

 

[JCSunsfan]

My draft tiers right now are as follows:

Tier 1: Ayton
Tier 2: Porter, Young, Doncic
Tier 3: Bagley, Bamba, Jackson

I have backed off of Young a little. But I probably shouldn't the guy is still doing amazing things. He is still a fantastic point guard, especially as a floor general and passer. If Payton doesn't cut his hair by the draft, he can walk. We need a player with basketball as his priority.

I am higher ever on Porter. Watching his brother dominate helps. We already know the Michael is the better brother. That is not going to change. He is a multi-skilled big. He is Marquise Chriss with skills and a brain.

I put Doncic in tier 2 because of everyone else's confidence in him. I still have my doubts. I think he will struggle, especially early--just like JJ did.

Bagley's game is great for college but I think it will be limited for the pros. I cannot help think of Michael Beasley. He is not the headcase, but Beasley did not struggle just because he is a loon.

Bamba will be an impact player. The question is whether he can expand his game offensively. His thin frame will get him pushed around a lot.

Jackson is like so many young bigs who come out with great promise. Will he be Drummond or Len? I think Drummond is his best comparison--its the body primarily. The problem is that I think there are a lot of players in this draft that will be better than Drummond.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

My draft tiers right now are as follows:

Tier 1: Ayton
Tier 2: Porter, Young, Doncic
Tier 3: Bagley, Bamba, Jackson

I have backed off of Young a little. But I probably shouldn't the guy is still doing amazing things. He is still a fantastic point guard, especially as a floor general and passer. If Payton doesn't cut his hair by the draft, he can walk. We need a player with basketball as his priority.

I am higher ever on Porter. Watching his brother dominate helps. We already know the Michael is the better brother. That is not going to change. He is a multi-skilled big. He is Marquise Chriss with skills and a brain.

I put Doncic in tier 2 because of everyone else's confidence in him. I still have my doubts. I think he will struggle, especially early--just like JJ did.

Bagley's game is great for college but I think it will be limited for the pros. I cannot help think of Michael Beasley. He is not the headcase, but Beasley did not struggle just because he is a loon.

Bamba will be an impact player. The question is whether he can expand his game offensively. His thin frame will get him pushed around a lot.

Jackson is like so many young bigs who come out with great promise. Will he be Drummond or Len? I think Drummond is his best comparison--its the body primarily. The problem is that I think there are a lot of players in this draft that will be better than Drummond.

I have to admit, I don’t agree with a lot of the comparisons you made.

Porter doesn’t have Chriss’ athleticism. He’s been more compared to Durant, who is a good athlete but not in chriss’ category. I’d say, health willing, Porter will at worst be (oh man I’m blanking in his name - the 6’10 sf that played for the Sonics and then magic with Dwight Howard).

And Beasley just wasn’t ever that engaged. Bagley seems pretty intense in the court. And Beasley was an inside-outside guy. Bagley doesn’t have the game away from the hoop . . . yet.

And Drummond is useless offensively two feet away from the hoop. One of the allures of JJJ is his shooting range along with his hoop protection.

 

[elindholm]

Porter doesn’t have Chriss’ athleticism. He’s been more compared to Durant, who is a good athlete but not in chriss’ category. I’d say, health willing, Porter will at worst be (oh man I’m blanking in his name - the 6’10 sf that played for the Sonics and then magic with Dwight Howard).

Rashard Lewis. What a weird career that guy had. He was looking like a borderline top-ten player, and then once he got the big contract, he just put it on cruise control and never had much impact again.

Edit: I forgot about his drug suspension, which more or less coincided with his career tailing off.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My draft tiers right now are as follows:

Tier 1: Ayton
Tier 2: Porter, Young, Doncic
Tier 3: Bagley, Bamba, Jackson

I have backed off of Young a little. But I probably shouldn't the guy is still doing amazing things. He is still a fantastic point guard, especially as a floor general and passer. If Payton doesn't cut his hair by the draft, he can walk. We need a player with basketball as his priority.

I am higher ever on Porter. Watching his brother dominate helps. We already know the Michael is the better brother. That is not going to change. He is a multi-skilled big. He is Marquise Chriss with skills and a brain.

I put Doncic in tier 2 because of everyone else's confidence in him. I still have my doubts. I think he will struggle, especially early--just like JJ did.

Bagley's game is great for college but I think it will be limited for the pros. I cannot help think of Michael Beasley. He is not the headcase, but Beasley did not struggle just because he is a loon.

Beasley, besides being a head case, was also a tweener playing PF at 6'8, while Bagley is a legit 6'11 and still growing and a better athlete. Not sure I see much comparison there.

Bamba will be an impact player. The question is whether he can expand his game offensively. His thin frame will get him pushed around a lot.

As a rim protector, I think he can be a force. Also the second half of the season, his offensive game has expanded. Put a little meat on his bones and I think he could be a very, very good anchor in the middle. Right now, feels like his best comparison is a healthy Nerlens Noel in college.

Jackson is like so many young bigs who come out with great promise. Will he be Drummond or Len? I think Drummond is his best comparison--its the body primarily. The problem is that I think there are a lot of players in this draft that will be better than Drummond.

Don't see the Len comparison... even worse case. Jackson is a SUPER athlete, while Len was "athletic for his size" according to a lot of people here. He's faster, more explosive AND can actually shoot the rock, whereas Len never had range past five feet.

 

[Raindog]

If I was a prospective NBA player and anyone EVER identified me as equivalent to Alex Len, I would sue for defamation of character.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Beasley, besides being a head case, was also a tweener playing PF at 6'8, while Bagley is a legit 6'11 and still growing and a better athlete. Not sure I see much comparison there.



As a rim protector, I think he can be a force. Also the second half of the season, his offensive game has expanded. Put a little meat on his bones and I think he could be a very, very good anchor in the middle. Right now, feels like his best comparison is a healthy Nerlens Noel in college.



Don't see the Len comparison... even worse case. Jackson is a SUPER athlete, while Len was "athletic for his size" according to a lot of people here. He's faster, more explosive AND can actually shoot the rock, whereas Len never had range past five feet.

I thought Beasley was 6’10

 

[JCSunsfan]

I have to admit, I don’t agree with a lot of the comparisons you made.

Porter doesn’t have Chriss’ athleticism. He’s been more compared to Durant, who is a good athlete but not in chriss’ category. I’d say, health willing, Porter will at worst be (oh man I’m blanking in his name - the 6’10 sf that played for the Sonics and then magic with Dwight Howard).

And Beasley just wasn’t ever that engaged. Bagley seems pretty intense in the court. And Beasley was an inside-outside guy. Bagley doesn’t have the game away from the hoop . . . yet.

And Drummond is useless offensively two feet away from the hoop. One of the allures of JJJ is his shooting range along with his hoop protection.

OK. Fair enough. JJJ just looks like Drummond bodily. I get the Beasley comparison dispute. From what I have seen of Porter, his athleticism seems pretty similar to Chriss. But comparisons are always imperfect.

 

[JCSunsfan]

P

Beasley, besides being a head case, was also a tweener playing PF at 6'8, while Bagley is a legit 6'11 and still growing and a better athlete. Not sure I see much comparison there.



As a rim protector, I think he can be a force. Also the second half of the season, his offensive game has expanded. Put a little meat on his bones and I think he could be a very, very good anchor in the middle. Right now, feels like his best comparison is a healthy Nerlens Noel in college.



Don't see the Len comparison... even worse case. Jackson is a SUPER athlete, while Len was "athletic for his size" according to a lot of people here. He's faster, more explosive AND can actually shoot the rock, whereas Len never had range past five feet.

Please guys, when I make comparisons, I am not trying to make exact comparisons. For instance, the only point I was making about Len was career trajectory, as in a big that looks like he has promise but fizzles--a Drummond (a big that struggles early but seems to work through it and succeeds) or Len (a big that seems to have a lot of promise but just cannot seem to put it together). I think I am going to have to quit doing this altogether. Otherwise it ends up getting put under a microscope of sorts.

What are you guys? Lawyers?