2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch.

[Cheesebeef]

I guess you could ask which white guy (or two) is it going to be?

Nowitzki’s old
Porzingis is hurt, maybe for good
Hayward? Maybe.
Dragic? Nah he’s not that good (although he had a 30, 8 and 9 night last night).
Parsons? Nah.
Rubio. No.
Jokic - very possibly.

If Doncic is the best of all of them (and the consensus is he’s the best European prospect ever (prospect meaning potential, not product meaning nowitzki)) then there’s no reason to think he couldn’t be that guy.

But I hear you on the probabilities, they’re not exactly in his favour - but then how many 6’8” point guards, black or white, have there ever been.


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Trying to find the needle in the haystack is a horrible draft strategy.

 

[BC867]

Trying to find the needle in the haystack is a horrible draft strategy.

In addition to the European strategy (players with experience on pro teams in inferior leagues), doesn't that also apply to putting all of your eggs in the tanking approach (players with no pro experience)?

Aren't they both crap shoots vs. trading for, or signing, proven NBA talents that fit a team's needs? In our case, the whole front court, which is a reflection on our weak Front Office.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Trying to find the needle in the haystack is a horrible draft strategy.

I just don’t see the point in making it about skin color or nationality. You either like the skills of the prospect or you don’t. If you simply don’t think Doncic will be good than that’s fine (even though we disagree on that), but trying to say it is because he is a white euro is grasping at straws IMO.

And the ALL-NBA Teams over the last decade? And why aren’t there more Euro/white guys in the league?

It’s no secret that black people tend to be more athletic then white people. It’s also no secret that athleticism is at a premium at the highest levels of sports like the NBA. However a players mental and physical skills need to be heavily accounted for when evaluating players and myself and many others (plenty of whom are experts) believe that Doncic’s skills are leaps and bounds ahead of the other prospects in this draft. That is why despite the fact that he is not nearly the most athletic guy in the top of this draft he is still being talked about as arguably the best prospect in this draft.

Also when comparing him against other euro players he is considered by many to be the best euro prospect ever. That certainly doesn’t guarantee anything, but there are no true guarantees when it comes to the NBA draft.

 

[BC867]

It’s no secret that black people tend to be more athletic then white people. It’s also no secret that athleticism is at a premium at the highest levels of sports like the NBA.

Also, by quantity, a greater percentage of African-Americans are raised in ghettos. It is a shame, but it is reality.

It doesn't take money, or organization, for a bunch of kids to go to the schoolyard and play 3-on-3 basketball or 3-on-3 touch football in the street. As opposed to nine position players on each side playing baseball (which might explain why their participation in MLB has dropped, although I guess the same could be said for Hispanic kids but their MLB participation has grown). Or field a complete soccer team.

The point is that it is easier for African-American kids to develop basketball skills growing up vs. other organized sports.

 

[3rdside]

Trying to find the needle in the haystack is a horrible draft strategy.

Sounds like you’re saying don’t draft white players


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[SirStefan32]

Sounds like you’re saying don’t draft white players


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That's exactly what he is saying.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sounds like you’re saying don’t draft white players


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I’m saying when you’re in a position to reach for the stars at the top of the draft... especially one as loaded as this, your damn right that’s what I’m saying.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I’m saying don’t draft white players at the top of a loaded draft and in general... nowhere near high lotto picks.

Doncic scares me as a prospect, but not because he is white. Wow. Maybe we should just say only draft multi-racial players at the top since they seem to be the best players. You know, Steph Curry, Devin Booker, Jason Kidd, Grant Hill, Blake Griffin, Ben Simmons, Lonzo Ball, Aaron Gordon, Tony Parker, Zack Lavine etc etc.

This is not a good path to travel.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I’ve just heard too many times the next Euro is “their best prospect ever!” Too many times with from Darko to Rubio to Barg-freaking-nani to Kukoc.

In a weak draft, maybe I could stomach taking this kid high, but it’s not a weak draft... I think his athleticism will hurt him in the pros and just been burned too many times before picking the freaking white guy.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I’ve just heard too many times the next Euro is “their best prospect ever!” Too many times with from Darko to Rubio to Barg-freaking-nani to Kukoc.

In a weak draft, maybe I could stomach taking this kid high, but it’s not a weak draft... I think his athleticism will hurt him in the pros and just been burned too many times before picking the freaking white guy.

Just leave the white part of it out, and your argument is legit.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Doncic scares me as a prospect, but not because he is white. Wow. Maybe we should just say only draft multi-racial players at the top since they seem to be the best players. You know, Steph Curry, Devin Booker, Jason Kidd, Grant Hill, Blake Griffin, Ben Simmons, Lonzo Ball, Aaron Gordon, Tony Parker, Zack Lavine etc etc.

This is not a good path to travel.

The boiling this down to the white thing is a way to attack the argument without acknowledging WHY the white guy scares me and its because of his lack of athleticism, which comes... surprise surprise with most white guys in the league.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I’ve just heard too many times the next Euro is “their best prospect ever!” Too many times with from Darko to Rubio to Barg-freaking-nani to Kukoc.

In a weak draft, maybe I could stomach taking this kid high, but it’s not a weak draft... I think his athleticism will hurt him in the pros and just been burned too many times before picking the freaking white guy.

You hear things like this about black players too and plenty of them fail as well. For every white player that gets drafted high and never amounts to anything you have probably 5 black players in the exact same boat. That’s because the NBA draft is a crapshoot and thus the best thing you can do is judge who’s skill set you like the most and make your decision accordingly. So again I say it is completely justified to argue that you don’t like his skill set, but to say that because he is white don’t take him high is simply a weak argument.

 

[SweetD]

Ayton probably just dropped to top 10 not #1 after today's news.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ayton probably just dropped to top 10 not #1 after today's news.

Why? Is he any less an NBA player? I can't see it. I would not pass on him because of this, even if I had the #1 pick.

However, if he does drop to 10, lets trade up and get him.

 

[GatorAZ]

Ayton probably just dropped to top 10 not #1 after today's news.

Doesn’t hurt him at all unless it affects his play.

 

[Chaplin]

Trying to find the needle in the haystack is a horrible draft strategy.

Past pick #10, what other strategy is there?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Past pick #10, what other strategy is there?

No issue with that generally... but I’m talking top of the board lotto picks.

 

[elindholm]

Just leave the white part of it out, and your argument is legit.

We lowly fans can't help but be influenced by the buzz on a player. As I've said before, white players are more likely to be considered "intelligent" than blacks. If you happen to have a white player whose court smarts really are in the stratosphere, great. But what's more likely is that his intellectual talents are being exaggerated by a racist media.

We like to flatter ourselves into believing that we can make objective determinations on our own, but we can't. So the fallback strategy is to try to assess how much we are being influenced by the buzz, figure out what agenda lies behind that buzz, and then correct for it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We lowly fans can't help but be influenced by the buzz on a player. As I've said before, white players are more likely to be considered "intelligent" than blacks. If you happen to have a white player whose court smarts really are in the stratosphere, great. But what's more likely is that his intellectual talents are being exaggerated by a racist media.

We like to flatter ourselves into believing that we can make objective determinations on our own, but we can't. So the fallback strategy is to try to assess how much we are being influenced by the buzz, figure out what agenda lies behind that buzz, and then correct for it.

I just don’t buy the “we are all racists we can’t help it” thing. I compared Doncic’s game to Magic. Others compared him to Walt Williams.

It’s such a mistake to think of a players intelligence based upon his color. Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley and Michael Jordan were some of the most intelligent players to play the game.

Maybe we flatter ourselves, but it thinking beyond those stereotypes is possible and the stereotypes often change over time.

 

[elindholm]

I just don’t buy the “we are all racists we can’t help it” thing. I compared Doncic’s game to Magic. Others compared him to Walt Williams.

It’s such a mistake to think of a players intelligence based upon his color. Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley and Michael Jordan were some of the most intelligent players to play the game.

Maybe we flatter ourselves, but it thinking beyond those stereotypes is possible and the stereotypes often change over time.

I didn't say we were all racists. I said that the media in general has a white bias, which it certainly does. We base our opinions of these players on highlight reels and the analysis of so-called experts who have a hundred different priorities to balance. Our information, not our judgment, is skewed; it's up to us to figure out the ways in which that information is most likely to be skewed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Is anyone else watching this Zona game?

If you are and don’t think that Ayton isn’t the clear cut number 1 Pick, you’re drinking drano.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I just don’t buy the “we are all racists we can’t help it” thing. I compared Doncic’s game to Magic. Others compared him to Walt Williams.

It’s such a mistake to think of a players intelligence based upon his color. Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley and Michael Jordan were some of the most intelligent players to play the game.

Maybe we flatter ourselves, but it thinking beyond those stereotypes is possible and the stereotypes often change over time.

This is a reason I scoff at “basketball IQ”... especially when the guy is doing almost nothing else that can measured on the court.

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't say we were all racists. I said that the media in general has a white bias, which it certainly does. We base our opinions of these players on highlight reels and the analysis of so-called experts who have a hundred different priorities to balance. Our information, not our judgment, is skewed; it's up to us to figure out the ways in which that information is most likely to be skewed.

We have a choice how we interpret information. Everyone is prejudice about something. It's our job to override it when we realize we are bias and question our thought process.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Is anyone else watching this Zona game?

If you are and don’t think that Ayton isn’t the clear cut number 1 Pick, you’re drinking drano.

Still arguing with yourself about Ayton, I see. Not sure I have seen a single person on here arguing against that sentiment.

 

[SirStefan32]

Still arguing with yourself about Ayton, I see. Not sure I have seen a single person on here arguing against that sentiment.

Heh, I was just thinking the same thing. I haven't seen one person here say they wouldn't take Ayton with #1 pick.