Chaplin
Better off silent
NOW who's overrating? You're easily overrating Canaan right now. The point is there is very little difference, other than a little luck, between the two. Both are fringe NBA players.
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Ok, if you want to say he's average or below average, what are you using to judge that? Based on the roster? It's people suggesting he'll start or play a big role that I view as overrating him because he's simply not a player who should be starting in the NBA. He hasn't shown to have the ability to be a decent starter in the league, period. Neither has Okobo but he hasn't played an NBA game yet because he was just drafted. There is a big difference between developing a 19 year old kid who play professionally in France to a 24 year old G-League player and I would think that doesn't need to be spelled out.
The difference between Canaan and Harrison is that Canaan has proven he is an NBA guard. He doesn't have a great career but he has managed to play in the NBA for a few years and exhibit he has real NBA skills that keeps him in the league. At his age and skill level the Suns don't need to develop him to be a good backup, he is a backup already and can assume that role without needing the direction Shaq does. Those are the differences between Shaq, Okobo, and Canaan. So while he may end up being similar in overall skill, he's not quite at the level the others are.
Yuma
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Just my two cents, I think most people think Harrison gets the nod based on his rep on defense. The thinking is he makes up for Booker's lake of defense. I happen to think Booker isn't all that bad on D when he hustles, and he appears to want to learn to play D. Which is a big part of D, but I digress. No one is overrating Harrison, per se, just he got a lot of pub, during the season for steals, as well as in the Summer league. Canaan has been out of sight, out of mind due to injury somewhat. There's more than a couple of us that are happy either way it shakes out.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
In the past few posts, I've stated multiple times that he is not a particularly good player. Pointing out the facts is not overrating someone. He has indeed played in 200+ games over a few seasons, and he has indeed averaged 20 minutes per game. He can shoot, he is a competent defender. Those are facts. That is not overrating.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Let's talk about his statistics--the only thing he has on Harrison at this point is 3 pt % and a couple ppg. That's it. Harrison is 3 years younger, is a better defender, shoots better overall, is a better rebounder, better steals, better assists. And Canaan has had a lot more time to get better in ALL those areas.
Playing in 175 more games isn't enough to make him a better choice as a PG than Harrison. And don't start with the "starting" nonsense. Right now, we have 4 choices to start at PG. There is no good reason why Canaan should start over Harrison. There IS better reasons, however, for Knight to start over both of them. And Harrison's defensive ability, age and advanced stats show he would be the better backup over Canaan.
I like Canaan the player, but again, only as a fringe NBA talent. Harrison is the same.
Playing in 175 more games isn't enough to make him a better choice as a PG than Harrison. And don't start with the "starting" nonsense. Right now, we have 4 choices to start at PG. There is no good reason why Canaan should start over Harrison. There IS better reasons, however, for Knight to start over both of them. And Harrison's defensive ability, age and advanced stats show he would be the better backup over Canaan.
I like Canaan the player, but again, only as a fringe NBA talent. Harrison is the same.
Yuma
Suns are my Kryptonite!
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
175 more games is the equivalent of more than two full seasons. That's pretty significant. Three point shooting is significant too. Shaq is an awful shooter. Also, nobody is calling for Canaan to start. Of course they should start Knight.
Phrazbit
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Yeah, I slammed Harrison plenty in the D-League and I only view him as a likely rotation player because the entire selection is lousy but I don't see how Canaan is better by the wide margin you seem to claiming here. The vast majority of Canaan's NBA playing time came on a Sixers team that was full of fringe players, removed from that stint he's been a d-league/10 day contract guy.
I would agree that Canaan is more "proven" than Harrison is... but I don't think in any advantageous sense. He's been around, he's pretty much "proven" he isn't a rotation player outside of having extreme circumstances. Harrison is probably cut from a similar cloth but, like Canaan after his first brief stints in the league, he hasn't had time to prove it.
Phrazbit
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Bonus bit... I wouldn't be surprised if neither of them are on the roster. Or if both make it and Okobo stats the year in the d-league.
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JCSunsfan
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To me, the extra games are a NEGATIVE. He has had that much more chance to improve and has shown exactly what he is. At least there might be a slight chance that Harrison could be better and his defense is a more useful commodity. If Canaan ends up over Harrison, it is no big deal to me, but my hunch will be it is Canaan that gets cut. He is coming off a major injury, he has a training camp only style contract, and we already have similar players under contract
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I was talking about a healthy Canaan beating out Harrison if push came to shove. Of course if Canaan cannot return to form, he is not going to make the final roster over anybody.
Chaplin
Better off silent
And I'm saying it doesn't matter which one of them makes the roster. I give Harrison a slight edge because of his age and his defensive ability.
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JCSunsfan
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Totally agree.
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Omg ..really? That seems like a toss up at best. I just don't see it ....yet
https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/...ren-josh-jackson-start-sixth-man-phoenix-suns
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JCSunsfan
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Toss up at best. I think Warren starts because he is the vet and potential trade material. We also always seem to underrate him. He is a 20 ppg scorer and is as consistent in what he does as they come.
Not automatically. Whoever earns it. I think Jackson has more potential but he's got to earn it in practice and in games. I hope Igor gets these guys playing with energy especially on defense, like in summer league.
pokerface
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I think Jackson will eventually get some starts but he will have to earn it like you said . Time these guys compete (against each other) because we have DEPTH now.
BC867
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As far as his contributing to the team, what he does is very one-dimensional. It pads his PPG stats, but that's it. I hope, as you said, that he is potential trade material.
Need to outscore our opponents to win and Warren is one of the best players on the team at doing that. He is very consistent also, which is a plus. I remember seeing him single handedly help the team close the gap coming into the second half a few times last season. That seemed to be one thing Triano did purposefully last year, feed Warren a lot out of the half and TJ did a good job scoring even when it was obvious that was the plan for the team and the defense would try to stop him. That's something that should be valued by the team and if he can do that coming off the bench it will probably be more valuable to the team overall in the long run.
We'll see what happens with him but since he is the team's 2nd best scorer we shouldn't move him unless we can fill a need. I'm fine with waiting until the season starts to see what needs to be addressed the most before we try shopping TJ that much because we could end up creating a bigger need by trading him and lacking a consistent scoring sidekick for Booker.
pokerface
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Plus Warren is shooting almost 50%...That saves him. Yeah he's one dimensional but you can't have too many scorers.
Suns won four games against playoff teams last year. Utah, Wash, Minn and 76's. Go look at the box scores. Can't believe people are thinking about starting Jackson.
It will be the booker and Warren show again with help from Knight, Ariza and the young ones.
pokerface
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I been thinking about the pecking order on who has the most green light
Booker/Ayton/Warren
Guess Ayton has to prove it in NBA but it seems likely
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
It's a tricky situation at SF. This team needs scoring, defense, and three-point shooting. Warren can score, and does so efficiently. Jackson can defend, but he is really undisciplined and makes too many mistakes. Neither can shoot, but Warren at least knows that he can't shoot. Hell, Bridges checks more boxes than either one of the two we are discussing, but I think that for now, they really need Warren's scoring. Ayton is a rookie, Ariza is not a great scorer, Knight, even at his best, was streaky and unreliable. Having another scorer will help Booker and others. This isn't even necessarily about Warren, it's just about the lack of scorers the Suns have.
Hell, even looking at the rest of the roster, I don't see any great scorers in the future. I really like Bridges, but he will be another Ariza. Bender, even if he develops, isn't gonna be a volume scorer. Best case scenario for Bender is a 7'1 Ariza, or perhaps Ryan Anderson who can play defense. Best case scenario for Chriss is a little bit better offensively, but I think that's not likely to happen. Jackson could turn into a good scorer eventually if he can calm down and play within the system, but I don't think he will be a 20ppg-type scorer. Okobo may surprise us, but I think he is a couple of years away from contributing. Reed is another 3 and D guy who isn't gonna be a crazy scorer.
They really need Ayton to become a scorer, and then they need another scorer, or at least a bunch of really good shooters surrounding him and Booker.
Hell, even looking at the rest of the roster, I don't see any great scorers in the future. I really like Bridges, but he will be another Ariza. Bender, even if he develops, isn't gonna be a volume scorer. Best case scenario for Bender is a 7'1 Ariza, or perhaps Ryan Anderson who can play defense. Best case scenario for Chriss is a little bit better offensively, but I think that's not likely to happen. Jackson could turn into a good scorer eventually if he can calm down and play within the system, but I don't think he will be a 20ppg-type scorer. Okobo may surprise us, but I think he is a couple of years away from contributing. Reed is another 3 and D guy who isn't gonna be a crazy scorer.
They really need Ayton to become a scorer, and then they need another scorer, or at least a bunch of really good shooters surrounding him and Booker.
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