2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[95pro]

I’m hesitant, but if I recall correctly, Booker as PG last season was a mid-season change that frankly nobody was prepared for. Give him an opportunity during training camp to settle into the role and who knows? Not saying it will work, but the circumstances ARE different.

They are wayyy different.

Ariza - 3 & D, proven.
Ayton - D, finisher and a nice little jumper near the rim.
Anderson - 3
Bridges - promising 3 & D.

Len - bad hands and too inconsistent GONE
Dudley - very little left in the tank GONE
Ulis - non contributor GONE
Peters - non contributor GONE
Chriss - head case, inconsistent 3 & D GONE
Knight - non contributor GONE
Payton - no D, inconsistent passing GONE

That's a lot of bad players GONE off this roster, most upside being Chriss and that says a ton considering who we had on our roster.

The rest of the players we added are projects: Holmes, Arthur, King and Okober. A little bit of stock for the future maybe.

But what we did add are players who are capable and starter material.

 

[AzStevenCal]

But what we did add are players who are capable and starter material.

I agree with your entire post but I'd add that while we've added players that are starter material, it might take a few years before they are starter worthy.

 

[95pro]

Now lets look at our PG's that we have on our roster...

Should they be grouped with those players that are GONE?

or grouped with our current roster?

Are they worthy of being around quality veterans like Ariza and Anderson, a scorer like Booker, and a finisher like Ayton? Can we count on them to supplement these guys?

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree with your entire post but I'd add that while we've added players that are starter material, it might take a few years before they are starter worthy.

Not with Ariza. I think Ryan Anderson is starter material as well, at least he was at one time. I cannot think of why Ayton should not be starter material right now. We expect he will get better but I would be highly disappointed if he is not right now better than any center we had in the roster last year.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not with Ariza. I think Ryan Anderson is starter material as well, at least he was at one time. I cannot think of why Ayton should not be starter material right now. We expect he will get better but I would be highly disappointed if he is not right now better than any center we had in the roster last year.

In case it's unclear, I think of "starter material" to be more about potential and "starter worthy" means the guy would earn it on an average team.

I'm not so sure Ariza is starter material, he appears to be on the decline. And even when he used to be starter material, it was just barely. Regardless, I think we've just signed another Tyson Chandler. Fortunately we only signed this one for a single season. Ayton is clearly starter material, Bridges likely is too. But right now, it's unreasonable to do anything more than hope they are already starter worthy.

As for Ryan Anderson, I have no idea what we'll get from him. Healthy, he's almost definitely a step up from what we started last year but if scheme and Ayton can't cover up his deficiencies, he'll be a very weak starter.

 

[Raindog]

I think it's a safe bet that the fans that are expecting big things from this team are going to be disappointed before November goes away. We were arguably the worst team in the league even without tanking and we needed to improve all 5 starter positions not to mention the bench. Expecting a decent role player and a couple of rookies to drastically change our fortunes is a recipe for frustration and unrest.

I agree, Steven. But I think a lot of us were hoping for definitive signs of improvement this year, and barring outstanding seasons from the rookies, I don't see that happening with the rest of the dreck that's on the roster.

It is my very strong opinion that aside from the draft - potentially, because we probably won't really know about that for a while - we had a pretty poor off-season. The signings and trades we made (as of the moment) won't move the needle one bit, and in fact might set us back some. Outside of the draft, McD did a lot of nothing... and expended quite a bit of the supposed "assets" we had in the process. And the area of greatest need (PG) is still highly unresolved.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree, Steven. But I think a lot of us were hoping for definitive signs of improvement this year, and barring outstanding seasons from the rookies, I don't see that happening with the rest of the dreck that's on the roster.

It is my very strong opinion that aside from the draft - potentially, because we probably won't really know about that for a while - we had a pretty poor off-season. The signings and trades we made (as of the moment) won't move the needle one bit, and in fact might set us back some. Outside of the draft, McD did a lot of nothing... and expended quite a bit of the supposed "assets" we had in the process. And the area of greatest need (PG) is still highly unresolved.

Yeah, I'm not in love with our offseason moves. I don't hate any of the moves but I was expecting something more exciting than Melton and Ariza. But when you are as young as we are, improvement through player development really is the key to team success. We could trade picks and Warren for Kemba and still be a really bad team if Booker doesn't stay healthy and if he and the other young ones don't show solid growth coming into and during the season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I agree, Steven. But I think a lot of us were hoping for definitive signs of improvement this year, and barring outstanding seasons from the rookies, I don't see that happening with the rest of the dreck that's on the roster.

It is my very strong opinion that aside from the draft - potentially, because we probably won't really know about that for a while - we had a pretty poor off-season. The signings and trades we made (as of the moment) won't move the needle one bit, and in fact might set us back some. Outside of the draft, McD did a lot of nothing... and expended quite a bit of the supposed "assets" we had in the process. And the area of greatest need (PG) is still highly unresolved.

I could see the moves outside of the draft having negligible impact (although I think they will have impact), but have a difficult time seeing how they can set us back.

 

[BC867]

One thing to consider is Booker will not be the same player at PG as he is/was at SG. Since we're loaded with wings we should be able fill the hole at SG that would be made by moving Booker over but how good will our new starting SG be? He won't be as good as Booker in that role. That's a given. So how much Booker improves our PG play needs to weighed against how much it will lower our SG play.

True. It would be weakening two positions. Losing our future All Star Shooting Guard (who has good distributing skills as a Shooting Guard) and turning over the Point Guard position (bringing the ball up the court and defending quicker Point Guards) to a Shooting Guard.

On this young team, why would anyone want to weaken two positions?

 

[Raindog]

I could see the moves outside of the draft having negligible impact (although I think they will have impact), but have a difficult time seeing how they can set us back.

I think it sets us back if Anderson and Ariza play significant minutes this year, that takes away more minutes from developing Jackson, Bender, and Bridges. And for no really good reason - it's not like Anderson and Ariza are going to be difference makers in getting us many extra wins, and both are likely not going to even be here next year. It's a lose-lose to me, assuming they aren't just going to end up being spot/role players.

 

[95pro]

Maybe Ariza and Anderson were garnered in hopes to sign a quality PG? You know, to make this team more attractive.

 

[SirStefan32]

Maybe Ariza and Anderson were garnered in hopes to sign a quality PG? You know, to make this team more attractive.

I don't think so. Anderson was acquired because he happened to be traded for a couple of players they wanted to get rid of. Ariza was brought in as a veteran leader who (unlike Dudley and to some degree Chandler) could still actually play, adding a little bit of shooting and defense- two things the Suns really needed. Free agents (point guards or otherwise) will be signing with the Suns because of Booker and (I hope) Ayton and Jackson, not because of Ariza and Anderson.

 

[95pro]

I don't think so. Anderson was acquired because he happened to be traded for a couple of players they wanted to get rid of. Ariza was brought in as a veteran leader who (unlike Dudley and to some degree Chandler) could still actually play, adding a little bit of shooting and defense- two things the Suns really needed. Free agents (point guards or otherwise) will be signing with the Suns because of Booker and (I hope) Ayton and Jackson, not because of Ariza and Anderson.

Right, its a cumulative effect. Along with Booker and Ayton, who we drafted and didn't have to really give up anything (except losing a lot), the addition of those two players makes us more attractive.

 

[elindholm]

Right, its a cumulative effect. Along with Booker and Ayton, who we drafted and didn't have to really give up anything (except losing a lot), the addition of those two players makes us more attractive.

There isn't a single player in the league looking at the Suns and thinking, "Cool, I could play with Ryan Anderson."

 

[95pro]

There isn't a single player in the league looking at the Suns and thinking, "Cool, I could play with Ryan Anderson."

CUMULITIVE

 

[1Sun]

For what it's worth, I just finished listening to Burns and Gambo rip the Suns' front office for not having a starting point guard in place and for counting on Isaiah Canaan for anything coming off of his injury, let alone being the starter. Burns thinks that due to the point guard situation this Suns team won't win 30 games, while Gambo is calling for McDonough to be fired if they don't.

 

[SirStefan32]

CUMULITIVE

Using all caps doesn't change anything. We understand the word, we understand the argument, but we simply disagree with it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Using all caps doesn't change anything. We understand the word, we understand the argument, but we simply disagree with it.

Or some of you do. I don’t agree with you.

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe Ariza and Anderson were garnered in hopes to sign a quality PG? You know, to make this team more attractive.

More likely the expiring contracts of Ariza, Daniels, Chandler and the likely buyout of Anderson next off season gives the Suns the needed salary space to sign a starting point guard in free agency in 2019.

 

[Hoop Head]

Maybe Ariza and Anderson were garnered in hopes to sign a quality PG? You know, to make this team more attractive.

That would be quite the blunder if that was the plan since acquiring them capped us out and killed any financial flexibility the Suns had this summer.

 

[Chaplin]

More likely the expiring contracts of Ariza, Daniels, Chandler and the likely buyout of Anderson next off season gives the Suns the needed salary space to sign a starting point guard in free agency in 2019.

This is my preferred route.

 

[taz02]

what will we have to spend? and who is expected to available?

 

[Hoop Head]

what will we have to spend? and who is expected to available?

I believe we're expected to have around $25-30 million in cap space so long as Ryan Anderson is waived and stretched.

There are a lot of players available next season, with many of them being PG's. Rubio, Collison, Teague, George Hill, Kemba Walker, Kyrie, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Tyreke Evans, Dragic (player option), Bledsoe (like that matters), and many others. Some have player options that need to be exercised but that's not much of an issue with the number of players expected to be available. Someone that can fill our PG hole will be available next summer.

Here's the top 10 guards according to Forbes. This scratches the surface when it comes to who should be on the market though.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...agent-ranking-the-top-10-guards/#553bc1c25421

Here's another list from SBNation that includes non-guards
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/7/30/17616436/nba-free-agency-2019-list-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving

 

[taz02]

Thanks for the info. That is significantly better than the garbage available this year.

It seems pretty clear that this season will be Booker running the offense interspersed with disastrous attempts at trying our backup PG's as starters.

If Ayton and Booker click in a big way and the coach is as good as hoped this won't be a complete train wreck.

The suns need to identify who they want next year and make a Nash style pitch.

I haven't been this anxious for the season to start since Amare was drafted.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I guess the Suns are calling everybody about pg's. They are talking to Minny about Tyus Jones. https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251181/Suns-Interested-In-Trade-For-Tyus-Jones.

He would be interesting. He is a very good distributing pg when he plays. TJ McConnell would be interesting to me as well. Those young pg's with lots of promise are more interesting to me than the injured vets.