2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[AzStevenCal]

This is not what I'm saying at all. It may be catchy but that's it.

The Suns can upgrade their PG position this coming season and still add a PG or another key player in 2019 free agency. I'm not for overspending for a PG position this season but I think there are PGs that will help the Suns now that will become available.

I'm all for upgrading the point guard position this season even if it's not the long term answer. But I'm against giving away value for marginal improvement. And I'm against approaching this season as a make or break year. We moved the timeline forward out of concern that we might alienate Booker if we don't. I'm okay with that but I'm against risking all we've done (and put up with) just so that we can become a mediocre team with a mediocre future.

 

[1Sun]

I'm all for upgrading the point guard position this season even if it's not the long term answer. But I'm against giving away value for marginal improvement. And I'm against approaching this season as a make or break year. We moved the timeline forward out of concern that we might alienate Booker if we don't. I'm okay with that but I'm against risking all we've done (and put up with) just so that we can become a mediocre team with a mediocre future.

I do concur that we shouldn't sacrifice our future or any asset of value to that future for a stop-gap. I think there are stop-gaps that should be available for pieces that are not critical to our future. If we trade anything of value, such as Warren, it should be for a point guard that could be a long term answer here.

 

[BC867]

Where I take issue is with your point #1. We saw last season that having just those guys at point guard very well could in fact harm or jeopardize growth not only of Ayton but of the entire young core. Heck, it caused Booker to take a step backwards last season. And if you propose that Booker carry the lion's share of point guard duties, I think we saw last season just how detrimental that was to his game, and ultimately his health.

That is my greatest fear. Devin not being run into the ground as Nash was during the latter stages of each season. That is why I hope that we have a workable Point Guard and backup to not even consider Devin to cover the role. Especially when you consider defense.

Some have posted that all we need our Point Guard to do is bring the ball up the court, then anyone can throw the assist passes. Then they talk about Booker, our top scorer, as Point Guard. Which is it? Is he a workhorse or is he our top scorer?

And, for those who have posted 'all-or-nothing' comments, I'll clarify my feelings. After missing the playoffs for eight straight years, I expect us to move up, even if we don't make the playoffs until the following year. This coming season will be the foundation of our future, especially with all of the young players on the team. The stronger the foundation, the better the future. I want to see us get off on the right foot. At all five positions. That is the GM's job.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm all for upgrading the point guard position this season even if it's not the long term answer. But I'm against giving away value for marginal improvement. And I'm against approaching this season as a make or break year. We moved the timeline forward out of concern that we might alienate Booker if we don't. I'm okay with that but I'm against risking all we've done (and put up with) just so that we can become a mediocre team with a mediocre future.

I'm not for this either. I can't imagine I have said otherwise. Mostly I'm talking about 2nd round pick(s) in terms of a trade.

 

[Hoop Head]

Why is that a fallacy? We not only saw the impact on Ayton in Summer League. We saw it in Tucson last season.

You're now saying that Ayton's play was hurt by PG play at UofA? You realize he posted some of the best numbers ever for a freshman big and he had to play with another big most of the time he was on the floor also. You're literally making things up to try to make your point.

 

[Mainstreet]

Why is that a fallacy? We not only saw the impact on Ayton in Summer League. We saw it in Tucson last season.

Ayton's play was hurt by playing PF in college.

 

[1Sun]

You're now saying that Ayton's play was hurt by PG play at UofA? You realize he posted some of the best numbers ever for a freshman big and he had to play with another big most of the time he was on the floor also. You're literally making things up to try to make your point.

As most U of A basketball fans would tell you, while Ayton's overall numbers were great, he was very up and down from game to game and at times was visibly frustrated and then checked out. No time was that more apparent than the NCAA Tournament game against Buffalo. Most of my fellow Wildcat fans have been quick to point to Parker Jackson Cartwright's play at the point as the ultimate reason for that phenomenon.

 

[1Sun]

Ayton's play was hurt by playing PF in college.

I agree that was part of it, as well as Sean Miller's suspect coaching and the FBI distraction, but I ultimately agree with the observation by many of my fellow Wildcats that PJC at the point also hurt Ayton.

 

[Errntknght]

Davon Reed was BY FAR our best player in Summer League, but his name hasn’t even been mentioned this summer by anyone on this board.

Gee, thanks, Chap! I've mentioned Reed twice in regard to SL. First to say he looked vastly improved from his play when he first came back from injury and the second time I commented on his playmaking(good). He also looked terrific in SL last year and if that is the Reed that shows up for the season I think we'll have a second unit that keeps us in games. Put him, Bridges and Harrison out there together and they'll keep the pressure off out frontcourt defenders - likely Anderson and Holmes. Maybe Anderson and Bender, if Igor breathes life into him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

. We are talking about Patrick Beverly as if though he is a 26 year-old John Stockton, and that's ridiculous. Beverly over Canaan wouldn't add one single win.

Man you guys take hyperbole to the extreme.

Beverley, if healthy, could certainly help the club. Will he set up his teammates? No, that’s not his skill set. He’s also likely not the missing piece to the playoffs. That said, he would improve the team (again if healthy) and is like to see him added, but only if the cost is low. If not, I can wait to see if someone unexpectedly comes available midtear or wait until next offseason.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not necessarily looking for a point guard that is going to get this team to the playoffs this year. What we need is a point guard that is not going to cause our young core to go backwards.

Beverley doesn’t possess the skills to make our young guys better. He’s a complimentary piece. A 3-D guy. If you’re looking for a get who makes those around him better it ain’t Beverley.

 

[1Sun]

Beverley doesn’t possess the skills to make our young guys better. He’s a complimentary piece. A 3-D guy. If you’re looking for a get who makes those around him better it ain’t Beverley.

At this point, I would settle for a point guard who does not make those around him worse.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

At this point, I would settle for a point guard who does not make those around him worse.

Fair

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

At this point, I would settle for a point guard who does not make those around him worse.

The Suns' point guard options are certainly lacking, but at least all four are willing (if not skilled) passers. I see the situation as at least a slight upgrade just because I don't have to watch insufferable me-first point guards like Brandon Knight and Mike James.

The only thing worse than a crappy point guard is a crappy point guard who thinks he's a star.

So to review...I find slight consolation that all four point guards on the Suns roster this year probably know they're not that great right now, and that a couple of them have potential to maybe be good in the future.

Also, Kemba Walker.

 

[1Sun]

The Suns' point guard options are certainly lacking, but at least all four are willing passers. I see the situation as at least a slight upgrade just because I don't have to watch insufferable me-first point guards like Brandon Knight and Mike James.

The only thing worse than a crappy point guard is a crappy point guard who thinks he's a star.

So to review...I find slight consolation that all four point guards on the Suns roster this year probably know they're not that great right now, and that a couple of them have potential to maybe be good in the future.

But the likely starter is not close to being a capable passer, and the couple that have the potential to maybe be good in the future will only keep that potential if they are brought along slowly and given time to develop properly (and ideally given at least a year in the G League to adjust to American professional basketball in one case and organized competitive ball at any level in the other case).

 

[Mainstreet]

So to review...I find slight consolation that all four point guards on the Suns roster this year probably know they're not that great right now, and that a couple of them have potential to maybe be good in the future.

Also, Kemba Walker.

Here is someone who knows what they want.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

But the likely starter is not close to being a capable passer, and the couple that have the potential to maybe be good in the future will only keep that potential if they are brought along slowly and given time to develop properly (and ideally given at least a year in the G League to adjust to American professional basketball in one case and organized competitive ball at any level in the other case).

Yeah...I agree with that. I actually like Harrison a lot as an energy player off the bench. Not necessarily the backup point guard, but a guy who comes in when you need to set a defensive tone. And I like Melton and Okobo a lot as prospects who, like you said, need to be developed correctly. Not a huge fan of Canaan. I think he's a solid third-string point guard on a good team.

But I prefer any of them as a starter to a Mike James/Brandon Knight type. That's all I'm saying. It's a low bar, but it's something.

 

[Chaplin]

Where I take issue is with your point #1. We saw last season that having just those guys at point guard very well could in fact harm or jeopardize growth not only of Ayton but of the entire young core. Heck, it caused Booker to take a step backwards last season. And if you propose that Booker carry the lion's share of point guard duties, I think we saw last season just how detrimental that was to his game, and ultimately his health.

Incorrect. Are you blaming Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss' and Josh Jackson's lack of development, however much there was, on Elfrid Payton and Isaiah Canaan? What kind of universe does that make sense? Ayton hasn't even suited up with these guys except for Okobo and Shaq, and that was only for a week and a half--and only--what--a total of 40 actual game minutes? And SUMMER LEAGUE game minutes at that?

You outright said it hurt Booker's development. What are you talking about? Glad to see BC has found a kindred spirit, because you are definitely a "sky is falling" kind of person when it comes to the Suns.

 

[Chaplin]

At this point, I would settle for a point guard who does not make those around him worse.

No proof of this AT ALL. Stop making stuff up.

 

[1Sun]

Yeah...I agree with that. I actually like Harrison a lot as an energy player off the bench. Not necessarily the backup point guard, but a guy who comes in when you need to set a defensive tone. And I like Melton and Okobo a lot as prospects who, like you said, need to be developed correctly. Not a huge fan of Canaan. I think he's a solid third-string point guard on a good team.

But I prefer any of them as a starter to a Mike James/Brandon Knight type. That's all I'm saying. It's a low bar, but it's something.

I agree with all of this, only I would add that not being a Mike James type is not good enough to me to accept one of our current point guards being a starter.

 

[Chaplin]

Keep in mind that over the past 2 years we had Earl Watson and Dead Man Walking Jay Triano as coaches.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree with all of this, only I would add that not being a Mike James type is not good enough to me to accept one of our current point guards being a starter.

Then you're going to be disappointed, and I for one hope we don't hear you whine about it the entire season.

Stopgap point guards are a non-starter. Because that's exactly what we have on the roster already. Hell, Devin Booker himself could be considered a stopgap point guard. Again, I point to the class of 2019. But you IGNORE that fact. Because hey, Ayton is a disaster waiting to happen because Isaiah Canaan is a Phoenix Sun.

 

[1Sun]

Incorrect. Are you blaming Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss' and Josh Jackson's lack of development, however much there was, on Elfrid Payton and Isaiah Canaan? What kind of universe does that make sense? Ayton hasn't even suited up with these guys except for Okobo and Shaq, and that was only for a week and a half--and only--what--a total of 40 actual game minutes? And SUMMER LEAGUE game minutes at that?

You outright said it hurt Booker's development. What are you talking about? Glad to see BC has found a kindred spirit, because you are definitely a "sky is falling" kind of person when it comes to the Suns.

Sorry, but BC seems to know what he's talking about. And yes, the negative impact was that obvious to me even in only 40 minutes or so (actually it was closer to double that, but I get your point) of Summer League play. And yes, I do blame at least some of what happened to Chriss, Bender and Jackson in terms of lack of development, not to mention the underperformance of Jay Triano as coach, on bad point guard play. Sorry, but I am an old school guy who sees point guard play as being as important in basketball as QB play is in football. I imagine BC is the same way.

 

[Chaplin]

Sorry, but BC seems to know what he's talking about. And yes, the negative impact was that obvious to me even in only 40 minutes or so (actually is was closer to double that, but I get your point) of Summer League play. And yes, I do blame at least some of what happened to Chriss, Bender and Jackson in terms of lack of development, not to mention the underperformance of Jay Triano as coach, on bad point guard play. Sorry, but I am an old school guy who sees point guard play as being as important in basketball as QB play is in football. I imagine BC is the same way.

Good on you. Good conversation, but I'm done responding to you. Have a good one.

 

[1Sun]

Then you're going to be disappointed, and I for one hope we don't hear you whine about it the entire season.

Stopgap point guards are a non-starter. Because that's exactly what we have on the roster already. Hell, Devin Booker himself could be considered a stopgap point guard. Again, I point to the class of 2019. But you IGNORE that fact. Because hey, Ayton is a disaster waiting to happen because Isaiah Canaan is a Phoenix Sun.

My point is I don't want to risk the team being worse off come 2019, such that 1) our young core regresses and goes the way of the Morii, Chriss, Bender, Len, etc., and/or 2) the team looks so bad this season that as with McDonough's previous efforts in free agency, we come up empty in the summer of 2019. While you say that won't happen (mind you, with no evidence to support your position, either), that's a risk I do not want the Suns to take.