2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Krangodnzr]

I am not in favor of place holders either. I am just not in favor of "going all in for Zion" either. Being bad and waiting for another draft is not the answer. It is time to start building a winning atmosphere.

I don't think I've seen a poster on here yet say "Tank for Zion".

 

[taz02]

The team is poorly constructed.

We are short a PF and PG. We have a boatload of SF, all of which are question marks.

We need to package all our picks and one SF for either a quality strating caliber PF or PG then fill the remaining hole in free agency.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think I've seen a poster on here yet say "Tank for Zion".

Yeah, it's far too early for that. But I halfway expect it to happen around game 65.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The team is poorly constructed.

We are short a PF and PG. We have a boatload of SF, all of which are question marks.

We need to package all our picks and one SF for either a quality strating caliber PF or PG then fill the remaining hole in free agency.

I think you're missing the point that if we do this, we'll either end up:

1) Trading a more valuable piece for a player that doesn't fit the trajectory of the rest of the team

2) Overpaying.

 

[BC867]

I'm afraid that if we don't put roster improvement (adds, deletes, drafting, player development) over winning we could end up wasting the rest of their careers with the Suns.

Booker is a big hit but is still very young with a lot to learn, Warren is a small hit and is nearing his prime, and Ayton is clearly a hit but still an NBA infant. Jackson is a HUGE question mark, Bridges is a small one. Ariza is sliding downhill fast. Canaan is a slightly below average backup point guard. Chandler might as well be playing wheelchair basketball with all the lift he gets. Okobo and Melton might not even make the rotation on a G League team (on merit anyway). Ryan Anderson is just waiting for a doctor to call time of death and Jamal Crawford was pronounced dead a couple of years ago. Bender the Friendly Ghost is still invisible. And we have no idea what George King is or will eventually become. Plus, there's the questionable front office, first time NBA Head Coach and playing in an improved Western Conference.

That says it all! Every sentence. Every evaluation. And with a comical touch. Because the alternative is fan depression.

Unfortunately, it leaves us with a non-competitive 80% of our roster. And in the hands of an incompetent/unproven management team.

Could it be any worse? Only when the day comes in a few years that Booker and Ayton go public and say they want out, regardless of contracts.

Then, they might as well back up the Suns moving van for Seattle.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think I've seen a poster on here yet say "Tank for Zion".

me neither.

man... there's so much reactionary guff here right now. We've really only added TWO superstar building blocks and one of them has played 3 games. RELAX folks. I know we've sucked out loud forever, but this rebuild is really just starting to get off the ground.

 

[Raindog]

I agree... the Suns will be fine. It will take a little more time for everyone to get their games filled out, but we are on the right path. We may need to still add a few pieces here and there, but two solid cornerstones are in place. I can only think of one other team in the league right now that has two real young stars with as high a ceiling as the two we have, and that is Philly with Simmons/Embiid.

 

[BC867]

man... there's so much reactionary guff here right now. We've really only added TWO superstar building blocks and one of them has played 3 games. RELAX folks. I know we've sucked out loud forever, but this rebuild is really just starting to get off the ground.

If we had a solid, role playing Point Guard serving Booker and Ayton, that would be a solid foundation for growth -- finally.

Especially since the Front Office announced it as their #2 priority in the draft, then wasted the pick on still another Small Forward.

Until then, we may start to get off the ground, but we'll keep skimming. Hindering the growth of Booker as a Shooting Guard and Ayton as a Center.

Are the Suns not capable of using their unbalanced roster to get a D&D (distribute and defend) Point Guard with an average outside shot?

The four or five on the roster who have tried are not the solution. It is time for the Suns to prioritize quality over quantity.

Let's face it, the team's MO for years now has been quantity over quality at the Power Forward, Small Forward and Point Guard positions. Too many teammates "competing" with each other all season long. That is not how you build team chemistry. But it keeps going on and on. Or, as you said, "... we've sucked out loud forever ..."

 

[Dan H]

me neither.

man... there's so much reactionary guff here right now. We've really only added TWO superstar building blocks and one of them has played 3 games. RELAX folks. I know we've sucked out loud forever, but this rebuild is really just starting to get off the ground.

I don't want to tank for him, but use up our draft capital to trade up and get him? Oh, yes.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't think I've seen a poster on here yet say "Tank for Zion".

I was actually quoting the post that said it. I am not making something up.

#1142 in this thread. That is what prompted my comment. Good grief!

 

[JCSunsfan]

"What this team needs is a Charles Barkley."

All in for Zion?

Here. The only way you get Zion is being top three in next summer's draft.

 

[Dan H]

Here. The only way you get Zion is being top three in next summer's draft.

And like I said, I don't want to tank for him. Trade up for him? Yes.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think we overestimate the depth the Suns have at SF. Ariza is likely a one-year rental. Jackson is not looking good at all this year. I am high on Bridges, but he is still just a rookie.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think we overestimate the depth the Suns have at SF. Ariza is likely a one-year rental. Jackson is not looking good at all this year. I am high on Bridges, but he is still just a rookie.

Do you not consider Warren a SF?

 

[SirStefan32]

Do you not consider Warren a SF?

Oh absolutely. I actually got distracted in the middle of writing my post and posted it once I got back without finishing the thought. I consider Warren to be an actual NBA player. Now that he appears to have added three-point shooting to his arsenal, I think he is clearly the number one SF on the team, though he can play small-ball 4 as well.

 

[elindholm]

Oh absolutely. I actually got distracted in the middle of writing my post and posted it once I got back without finishing the thought. I consider Warren to be an actual NBA player. Now that he appears to have added three-point shooting to his arsenal, I think he is clearly the number one SF on the team, though he can play small-ball 4 as well.

I agree that the Suns might as well try to get Bender some minutes, given how bad Anderson has looked. But the long-term solution for this year, assuming that the Suns want to compete, is to make Ayton more of a rim protector and have Warren/Bridges/Jackson cover the two forward spots most of the time.

It is a real shame that the Suns gave up on Chriss prematurely. Odds are, he wouldn't be the answer, but he's a better PF prospect than anyone currently on the roster.

 

[Hoop Head]

We've lost 2 games and played in 3. I don't recall anyone predicting the playoffs for this team. Losing was always going to happen and the teams we've lost to haven't been anyone to take lightly. I know Denver wasn't a playoff team last year but they had an above 500 record and came close. Seems like they're taking the step into the playoffs this year. That is where the Suns should be in the next year or two, not this year.

We're still young and lack talent at some positions but that's why our GM was fired. It's not like they've sat back and said "Ok, we still suck and that's a shame" without doing anything. Being too reactionary and making a deal to try and looker better won't help us. We need to wait, find the right deal and then make it. That isn't going to happen within the first full week of the regular starting. If we're still this bad in January or February and nothing has been done then I'll worry but right now we're figuring things out.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We've lost 2 games and played in 3. I don't recall anyone predicting the playoffs for this team. Losing was always going to happen and the teams we've lost to haven't been anyone to take lightly. I know Denver wasn't a playoff team last year but they had an above 500 record and came close. Seems like they're taking the step into the playoffs this year. That is where the Suns should be in the next year or two, not this year.

We're still young and lack talent at some positions but that's why our GM was fired. It's not like they've sat back and said "Ok, we still suck and that's a shame" without doing anything. Being too reactionary and making a deal to try and looker better won't help us. We need to wait, find the right deal and then make it. That isn't going to happen within the first full week of the regular starting. If we're still this bad in January or February and nothing has been done then I'll worry but right now we're figuring things out.

We're fans talking about what we think we need to do to make the next step. I do not think that is reactionary.

I like Mikal. I think he is the real deal. TJ is our long term 6th man. We know what Booker is. Ayton is our star at center. These are all good things. JJ is trade-able. That's not reactionary, just reasonable. If there is a deal out there to get a decent pg for JJ, it should be a consideration. I am not talking about another marginal vet like Beverly.

Tyus, Dinwiddie, Brogdon, Rozier, or someone like that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If he were on the market, would you consider John Wall? His coming contract is mega huge, but he would be the type of FA we would want to sign next summer and he would be the perfect pg next to Booker.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I think every team in the NBA wants another PG after playing Golden State. I'm a little upset with the Vets but let the year play out. No need to bring in an average player.

 

[Hoop Head]

We're fans talking about what we think we need to do to make the next step. I do not think that is reactionary.

I like Mikal. I think he is the real deal. TJ is our long term 6th man. We know what Booker is. Ayton is our star at center. These are all good things. JJ is trade-able. That's not reactionary, just reasonable. If there is a deal out there to get a decent pg for JJ, it should be a consideration. I am not talking about another marginal vet like Beverly.

Tyus, Dinwiddie, Brogdon, Rozier, or someone like that.

I'd support a JJ for PG trade with some of the names you mentioned but I don't like the idea of shopping him. I know he hasn't looked like he did toward the end of last year but I'm surprised by how people feel he should be dealt. I know you aren't advocating trading him to trade him but some have and that's premature. I guarantee his value is much higher than those people think also. He's just started year 2, which gives a new team a long time with him for cheap. When the light comes on for him and stays on, I think we'll regret trading him quite a bit also. He reminds me of a Richard Dumas type without the baggage.

 

[Hoop Head]

If he were on the market, would you consider John Wall? His coming contract is mega huge, but he would be the type of FA we would want to sign next summer and he would be the perfect pg next to Booker.

No, not even for Warren. His contract is awful. He's due $190 million over the next 5 years. Take a look at his deal, it sounds bad but looks even worse. In 2022-23 he'll make $46.5 million. He's on the books for $37.8 next year and has a 15% trade kicker. This is one instance where I would want Sarver to meddle and be cheap. Even if he cost $10 million less a year, I think that might be too much. That would be manageable though. He'll be 33 in that final year also.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/washington-wizards/john-wall-6882/

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If we had a solid, role playing Point Guard serving Booker and Ayton, that would be a solid foundation for growth -- finally.

Especially since the Front Office announced it as their #2 priority in the draft, then wasted the pick on still another Small Forward.

Until then, we may start to get off the ground, but we'll keep skimming. Hindering the growth of Booker as a Shooting Guard and Ayton as a Center.

Are the Suns not capable of using their unbalanced roster to get a D&D (distribute and defend) Point Guard with an average outside shot?

The four or five on the roster who have tried are not the solution. It is time for the Suns to prioritize quality over quantity.

Let's face it, the team's MO for years now has been quantity over quality at the Power Forward, Small Forward and Point Guard positions. Too many teammates "competing" with each other all season long. That is not how you build team chemistry. But it keeps going on and on. Or, as you said, "... we've sucked out loud forever ..."

Can we just stop with the whole hindering the growth of booker nonsense? Does it look like it’s hindered his offensive game? Not in the least. Getting a competent pg isn’t going accelerate the area booker needs the most growth . . . defense.

And Aytons a damn rookie. We need to worry about him developing fire in the belly and defensive awareness. Neither are going to come magically with the introduction of a pg.

Missing a pg is definitely a gaping hole for taking the next step, but it doesn’t inhibit our players growth. Particularly not at their present stages and where they need growth.

 

[1tinsoldier]

players forcing a trade is something we've been on the losing end of too often
someone will take advantage of the Butler situation. perhaps we can get in on it and open up a 3rd wheel trade opportunity for a pg -- to increase the value of what we get for what we give

 

[SirStefan32]

Can we just stop with the whole hindering the growth of booker nonsense? Does it look like it’s hindered his offensive game? Not in the least. Getting a competent pg isn’t going accelerate the area booker needs the most growth . . . defense.

And Aytons a damn rookie. We need to worry about him developing fire in the belly and defensive awareness. Neither are going to come magically with the introduction of a pg.

Missing a pg is definitely a gaping hole for taking the next step, but it doesn’t inhibit our players growth. Particularly not at their present stages and where they need growth.

This, this, a thousand times this!