2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Raze]

I've always liked Darren Collison. Maybe he can be had for a 2nd round pick at the trade deadline.

Now I see you mean this year making it tougher.

Yes, but could you imagine he and Booker "playing defense" together on the perimeter. Collison might be a worse defender than Book, and that's saying a lot.

Tyus Jones for Daniels would be a steal for us. Tyus has made massive strides on D and is a solid player on O. He's probably one of the best up-and-comers at the PG position.

He's 6-2 so he isn't hurting us on size like Ulis.
He's essentially a 45/35/85 shooter which is very respectable.
His 4:1 Assist to TO ratio was astounding (3 seasons running, and 2 of those teams sucked)
His 1.2 Steals in 18 min/gm is excellent.

The major questions would be:

Can he play more than 25 minutes?
Can he hold up for a whole season?

The pros FAR outweigh the cons. And he won't cost much. Although he'll cost quite a bit more next off season if he performs well. This is a bargain shopper's dream with little risk. It's a no brainer considering the position we're in.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Teams with excess pgs:

Philadelphia: Bayless, Jackson, Fultz, Simmons, Shamet, McConnell
Boston: Irving, Rozier, Smart
Clippers: Teo, Beverly, Shai, Bradley
Charlotte: Kemba, Parker, MCW
Knicks: Jack, Mudiay, FrankN, Burke
Toronto: Lowry, VV, Delon Wright, Brown
Utah: Rubio, Exum, Neto, Stockton

 

[GatorAZ]

I’m confused. People think we will get a 4th PG? Are Okobo and Shaq not playing at all then?

 

[Errntknght]

I’m confused. People think we will get a 4th PG? Are Okobo and Shaq not playing at all then?

My guess is that heading into training camp Knight is the starter but I won't be surprised if Knight is supplanted by Okobo and Harrison within a couple of months. If we do bring in another PG, he will be the starter, BK will be pushed down on spot but loses that to - Harrison - Igor likes players that defend well, and that isn't BK.

 

[SirStefan32]

Igor also likes players who can actually play. I like Harrison, but he is no more than the third point guard, unless he develops a jumper somehow. Okobo is a rookie who just isn't ready to play.

 

[Hoop Head]

I’m confused. People think we will get a 4th PG? Are Okobo and Shaq not playing at all then?

Carrying 4 PG's is a possibility because of how young and raw both Okobo and Harrison are. I think we'll see one of them assigned to the G-League roster at most points in the season. They won't develop much sitting on the bench. Splitting time on the NAZ Suns is a good thing for them. Hopefully it makes them ready to play more minutes if needed for some reason.

If we go into the year with 4 PG's that will allow us the freedom to keep one of those 2 in the G-League at all times without hurting our depth on the main roster very much. Also both Knight and Harrison can play some SG if you want to try to get them some more minutes. Mainly adding another PG would give us the ability to have 2 NBA level PG's that can play. Depending on Okobo or Harrison to play a lot could be a problem. I guess it depends on how ready Okobo and Harrison are for what Igor envisions for them.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes, but could you imagine he and Booker "playing defense" together on the perimeter. Collison might be a worse defender than Book, and that's saying a lot.

Tyus Jones for Daniels would be a steal for us. Tyus has made massive strides on D and is a solid player on O. He's probably one of the best up-and-comers at the PG position.

He's 6-2 so he isn't hurting us on size like Ulis.
He's essentially a 45/35/85 shooter which is very respectable.
His 4:1 Assist to TO ratio was astounding (3 seasons running, and 2 of those teams sucked)
His 1.2 Steals in 18 min/gm is excellent.

The major questions would be:

Can he play more than 25 minutes?
Can he hold up for a whole season?

The pros FAR outweigh the cons. And he won't cost much. Although he'll cost quite a bit more next off season if he performs well. This is a bargain shopper's dream with little risk. It's a no brainer considering the position we're in.

I can see your point about Collison. I was looking for a PG that might be obtainable that has the ability to start. I'm open to Tyrus Jones as well. He is much younger and could grow with the team. Also he is a RFA next season so the Suns could match any offer. However, I'm not seeing the need for the Wolves to part with him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Teams with excess pgs:

Philadelphia: Bayless, Jackson, Fultz, Simmons, Shamet, McConnell
Boston: Irving, Rozier, Smart
Clippers: Teo, Beverly, Shai, Bradley
Charlotte: Kemba, Parker, MCW
Knicks: Jack, Mudiay, FrankN, Burke
Toronto: Lowry, VV, Delon Wright, Brown
Utah: Rubio, Exum, Neto, Stockton

Not all of these guys are markedly better than our guys...

 

[sunsfan88]

Teams with excess pgs:

Philadelphia: Bayless, Jackson, Fultz, Simmons, Shamet, McConnell
Boston: Irving, Rozier, Smart
Clippers: Teo, Beverly, Shai, Bradley
Charlotte: Kemba, Parker, MCW
Knicks: Jack, Mudiay, FrankN, Burke
Toronto: Lowry, VV, Delon Wright, Brown
Utah: Rubio, Exum, Neto, Stockton

Good list JC.

I’ve been saying for a while I think McConnell would be a good fit in Igor’s offense. Can maybe teach Okobo about being a pure PG as well as other tricks to the trade.

Great local support with Ayton as well.

Would’ve been awesome if we could’ve got him in that one million dollar deal as well.

Philly is reportedly looking to add shooters and is in talks for Kyle Korver. I wonder if they would be interested in a Troy Daniels/McConnell swap.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not all of these guys are markedly better than our guys...

Agreed. Just because they have “pg” next tweekend their name doesn’t mean they allow for good pgs to be traded. A fan of another team could easily make a similar list and have:

Phoenix: knight, Harrison, okobo

listed and it wouldn’t mean they should want any of them.

For instance Bayless Bradley and smart aren’t even really Pgs. Exum may not be either. I don’t even know who Jackson, teo Neto Brown or frankn are. MCW Burke mudiay suck. Stockton is just a name right now and shaker is 100% unproven as okobo. And jack is 170 years old.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Good list JC.

I’ve been saying for a while I think McConnell would be a good fit in Igor’s offense. Can maybe teach Okobo about being a pure PG as well as other tricks to the trade.

Great local support with Ayton as well.

Would’ve been awesome if we could’ve got him in that one million dollar deal as well.

Philly is reportedly looking to add shooters and is in talks for Kyle Korver. I wonder if they would be interested in a Troy Daniels/McConnell swap.

I like McConnell also. But I don’t think they’d do a swap for Daniels. It’s a steep drop from Korver to Daniels.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I would be tempted to throw a 1st rounder to get Tyus Jones. Top 8 protected.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Agreed. Just because they have “pg” next tweekend their name doesn’t mean they allow for good pgs to be traded. A fan of another team could easily make a similar list and have:

Phoenix: knight, Harrison, okobo

listed and it wouldn’t mean they should want any of them.

For instance Bayless Bradley and smart aren’t even really Pgs. Exum may not be either. I don’t even know who Jackson, teo Neto Brown or frankn are. MCW Burke mudiay suck. Stockton is just a name right now and shaker is 100% unproven as okobo. And jack is 170 years old.

Its just a list of teams that seem to have more pg's than they need. Teo (Teodosic), FankN (Ntilikina), Neto (Neto). The list sort of speaks for itself, there are not a lot of options. Philly looks like the most likely trade partner to me. They basically have two #1 overall picks playing pg.

 

[Hoop Head]

I would be tempted to throw a 1st rounder to get Tyus Jones. Top 8 protected.

I would gladly trade the Bucks pick. There's various protections on it already and unlikely to be an issue where we gave up a great pick. The Suns could add something to it though since it becomes unprotected in 2021 where if it hasn't conveyed before that point they get the lesser of picks between ours and the Bucks pick. That would be enough protection that it should keep similar complaints made about trading the Heat pick for Bridges at bay.

 

[sunsfan88]

I like McConnell also. But I don’t think they’d do a swap for Daniels. It’s a steep drop from Korver to Daniels.

Daniels is still a very good 3pt shooter and 10 years younger than Korver too.

I think Korver could start to see his decline soon.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I’m confused. People think we will get a 4th PG? Are Okobo and Shaq not playing at all then?

My thought process on this is as follows:

Reasons the Suns don't need to carry Daniels on the roster-

1. Booker is going to take up most of the minutes at the 2.
2. With Warren, Jackson, and Ariza (even with Ariza starting at the 4) there are not a lot of minutes at the 3 to go to Bridges. So that means Bridges is likely taking up minutes at the 2.
3. Reed is not quite as good a shooter as Daniels, but he's not bad at shooting and he's much better at virtually everything else.
4. Knight and Okobo can both play off the ball at the 2 and Daniels can't play the 1.

Reasons the Suns need a 4th point guard-

1. Brandon Knight is the only "proven" point guard on the roster.
2. Brandon Knight is the only proven "point guard" on the roster.
3. Brandon Knight is coming off a big injury.
4. Brandon Knight is Brandon Kinght.
5. Okobo has only been playing point for a year and likely has a long way to go before being ready.
6. Harrison has only played 23 NBA games.

I think bringing in a competent starting-quality point or proven high-level backup point has a lot more value to this Suns team than Daniels given that all three current point guards are question marks. If Knight, Okobo, and/or Harrison proves to be better than a Teodosic or Collison type we bring in...FANTASTIC! I'm not saying you sell the farm to get a worldbeater...just a proven guy who can be solid. Maybe even Canaan. If he's beat out, then we can easily move forward with the current guys getting minutes over the veteran we bring in knowing they are good enough to do that. I just don't think three unknowns at point guard is a smart bet in a season where the Suns are trying to compete every game and make real progress.

Also, I like Harrison and Okobo more than Daniels, so I'd rather hold a roster spot for them even if minutes are hard to give, and hope they develop.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Its just a list of teams that seem to have more pg's than they need. Teo (Teodosic), FankN (Ntilikina), Neto (Neto). The list sort of speaks for itself, there are not a lot of options. Philly looks like the most likely trade partner to me. They basically have two #1 overall picks playing pg.

Ah thx for clarification on those two.

 

[Hoop Head]

Knight hasn't played an NBA game since February 15th 2017. Everyone knows he missed the entire 2017-18 season but he was benched at the All-Star break in the 2016-17 season. That's quite a long time and even though he's been working out a lot with our younger players there is going to be a lot of rust to work off. I know a lot of people want to give up on Knight before the season starts and I can see that point of view but right now he's the only NBA PG we have. I don't expect to see much from him until probably December. If he's awful then, I'll be calling for him to be benched like everyone else. Starting to call for it now is just too early though and he should be allowed a couple of weeks without being judged to harshly when next season starts.

 

[Krangodnzr]

My thought process on this is as follows:

Reasons the Suns don't need to carry Daniels on the roster-

1. Booker is going to take up most of the minutes at the 2.
2. With Warren, Jackson, and Ariza (even with Ariza starting at the 4) there are not a lot of minutes at the 3 to go to Bridges. So that means Bridges is likely taking up minutes at the 2.
3. Reed is not quite as good a shooter as Daniels, but he's not bad at shooting and he's much better at virtually everything else.
4. Knight and Okobo can both play off the ball at the 2 and Daniels can't play the 1.

Reasons the Suns need a 4th point guard-

1. Brandon Knight is the only "proven" point guard on the roster.
2. Brandon Knight is the only proven "point guard" on the roster.
3. Brandon Knight is coming off a big injury.
4. Brandon Knight is Brandon Kinght.
5. Okobo has only been playing point for a year and likely has a long way to go before being ready.
6. Harrison has only played 23 NBA games.

I think bringing in a competent starting-quality point or proven high-level backup point has a lot more value to this Suns team than Daniels given that all three current point guards are question marks. If Knight, Okobo, and/or Harrison proves to be better than a Teodosic or Collison type we bring in...FANTASTIC! I'm not saying you sell the farm to get a worldbeater...just a proven guy who can be solid. Maybe even Canaan. If he's beat out, then we can easily move forward with the current guys getting minutes over the veteran we bring in knowing they are good enough to do that. I just don't think three unknowns at point guard is a smart bet in a season where the Suns are trying to compete every game and make real progress.

Also, I like Harrison and Okobo more than Daniels, so I'd rather hold a roster spot for them even if minutes are hard to give, and hope they develop.

Maybe trade Daniels plus Bucks pick with top 8 protection for Jones? I'd do it. Knight can be swing guard backup.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Maybe trade Daniels plus Bucks pick with top 8 protection for Jones? I'd do it. Knight can be swing guard backup.

Tyus Jones would be great. The main thing they need for this year (in my opinion) is a quality decision maker. I trust Jones to be that.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Daniels is still a very good 3pt shooter and 10 years younger than Korver too.

I think Korver could start to see his decline soon.

Soon? Korver and Tony Parker have been toast for a few years. Let it go people Suns will play the kid from france before trading for a avg PG.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So what do Malcomb Brogdon, Tony Parker, Fred VanVleet, Spencer Dinwiddie, Isaiah Thomas and Kyle Lowry all have in common? They are all late first or second round draft picks and point guards that were developed by their teams. I think that is the way we are going to have to go.

Either Shaq or Okobo.

 

[Hoop Head]

So what do Malcomb Brogdon, Tony Parker, Fred VanVleet, Spencer Dinwiddie, Isaiah Thomas and Kyle Lowry all have in common? They are all late first or second round draft picks and point guards that were developed by their teams. I think that is the way we are going to have to go.

Either Shaq or Okobo.

I don't think Lowry fits with the others and it's debatable whether IT would also. IT played 3 years for the Kings and they didn't want him anymore, even at a low price, and let us sign him away. Then we traded him before he even played a whole season here. He played 2 1/2 years in Boston and they got out from under him before they would need to pay him.

Lowry was in Memphis for 2 1/2 years before being dealt to Houston. He played there for 3 1/2 years before they elected to let him go in a sign and trade to the Raptors, where he's been for the last 6 years. He really increased his play in Toronto also despite being in the league for 6 years before that and not showing the same ceiling that he's reached.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think Lowry fits with the others and it's debatable whether IT would also. IT played 3 years for the Kings and they didn't want him anymore, even at a low price, and let us sign him away. Then we traded him before he even played a whole season here. He played 2 1/2 years in Boston and they got out from under him before they would need to pay him.

Lowry was in Memphis for 2 1/2 years before being dealt to Houston. He played there for 3 1/2 years before they elected to let him go in a sign and trade to the Raptors, where he's been for the last 6 years. He really increased his play in Toronto also despite being in the league for 6 years before that and not showing the same ceiling that he's reached.

I may be remembering incorrectly but I believe the turnaround for Lowry was primarily due to him getting his butt in shape.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't think Lowry fits with the others and it's debatable whether IT would also. IT played 3 years for the Kings and they didn't want him anymore, even at a low price, and let us sign him away. Then we traded him before he even played a whole season here. He played 2 1/2 years in Boston and they got out from under him before they would need to pay him.

Lowry was in Memphis for 2 1/2 years before being dealt to Houston. He played there for 3 1/2 years before they elected to let him go in a sign and trade to the Raptors, where he's been for the last 6 years. He really increased his play in Toronto also despite being in the league for 6 years before that and not showing the same ceiling that he's reached.

Not sure how Lowry does not fit. Late pick that was developed. It doesn't matter what team developed him.