2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[ColdPickleNachos]

Eh... he'd just be another fringe PG on the pile. If they bring in another PG I hope it's someone who has shown they can play.

Yeah...but he's got a lot of upside if he can learn to shoot. That's a HUGE if, but on a two-way contract? Seems appealing to me. He was right there with Sexton and ahead of Young coming out of high school.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah...but he's got a lot of upside if he can learn to shoot. That's a HUGE if, but on a two-way contract? Seems appealing to me. He was right there with Sexton and ahead of Young coming out of high school.

Duval would have been worth the risk on a two-way contract. Point Guard is the most concerning position. IMO, not much downside.

The Suns have to be working on something I would think?

 

[Finito]

Even ignoring that Dragic shoved a dagger deep in the Suns back...

He's not a distributor, he doesn't play off the ball and he is an atrocious defender... and he's also in decline.

How did Dragic Stab the Suns in the back? Imagine your working for a company your doing your job really well, then they bring in somebody else to do your job.... Then yet another guy that does your job

Do you think that company is committed to you? No the Suns were dysfunctional as it gets he had every right to want out

 

[Phrazbit]

How did Dragic Stab the Suns in the back? Imagine your working for a company your doing your job really well, then they bring in somebody else to do your job.... Then yet another guy that does your job

Do you think that company is committed to you? No the Suns were dysfunctional as it gets he had every right to want out

Then the company says, "what can we do to make this right?", they do exactly what you ask, then you say "Nah, nevermind, I want out anyway and you've got about 20 minutes to make it happen".

He was at his best playing alongside Bledsoe, then Thomas was brought in as well... Dragic was playing, by far, the worst of the group, but the Suns still decided to appease him, he told them he wanted Thomas out, they make a deal to move Thomas, then he changes his mind. And on top of all that, he makes his list of teams the Lakers, the Heat and the Knicks, making it clear that not only was he unlikely to stay anyway, but his wanting out had far more to do with money and bright lights than anything else.

Screw Dragic.

And he'd be a crappy fit anyway.

 

[GatorAZ]

Then the company says, "what can we do to make this right?", they do exactly what you ask, then you say "Nah, nevermind, I want out anyway and you've got about 20 minutes to make it happen".

He was at his best playing alongside Bledsoe, then Thomas was brought in as well... Dragic was playing, by far, the worst of the group, but the Suns still decided to appease him, he told them he wanted Thomas out, they make a deal to move Thomas, then he changes his mind. And on top of all that, he makes his list of teams the Lakers, the Heat and the Knicks, making it clear that not only was he unlikely to stay anyway, but his wanting out had far more to do with money and bright lights than anything else.

Screw Dragic.

And he'd be a crappy fit anyway.

If Dragic is a bad fit then what kind of fit is the inferior assisting, more turnover-prone and less efficient Knight?

 

[Phrazbit]

If Dragic is a bad fit then what kind of fit is the inferior assisting, more turnover-prone and less efficient Knight?

The kind of fit that we're already stuck with.

If all Dragic costs is a straight up swap for Knight... I could talk myself into that. But... I kinda doubt that is the case.

 

[Mainstreet]

The kind of fit that we're already stuck with.

If all Dragic costs is a straight up swap for Knight... I could talk myself into that. But... I kinda doubt that is the case.

Why would the Heat trade Dragic for Knight straight up except maybe to save a few million this season. Dragic has positive trade value. Knight doesn't. The Heat would want further compensation.

Knight is guaranteed next season as well. And Dragic has a player option next season where he could conceivably leave anyway... if the Heat are worried about money.

 

[GatorAZ]

Why would the Heat trade Dragic for Knight straight up except maybe to save a few million this season. Dragic has positive trade value. Knight doesn't. The Heat would want further compensation.

Knight is guaranteed next season as well. And Dragic has a player option next season where he could conceivably leave anyway... if the Heat are worried about money.

He’s obviously not suggesting the Heat would do it just that he’d prefer Dragic > Knight if it were a straight up choice.

For me it depends on what it’d cost. I would prefer Dragic because he’s the better player and not coming off injury.

 

[Phrazbit]

Why would the Heat trade Dragic for Knight straight up except maybe to save a few million this season. Dragic has positive trade value. Knight doesn't. The Heat would want further compensation.

Knight is guaranteed next season as well. And Dragic has a player option next season where he could conceivably leave anyway... if the Heat are worried about money.

He’s obviously not suggesting the Heat would do it just that he’d prefer Dragic > Knight if it were a straight up choice.

For me it depends on what it’d cost. I would prefer Dragic because he’s the better player and not coming off injury.

Yes, I did not remotely mean that trading Knight for Dragic was a realistic scenario.

I was asked if I thought Dragic was a bad fit then what is Knight?

He's the bad fit we're already stuck with.

It's pointless anyway, even if we wanted Dragic, because of his salary it's hard to make a trade that works and where we don't get screwed.

 

[Phrazbit]

Just for discussion's case...

Let's say Miami was agreeable to a trade of Chandler, a lotto protected first and Okobo for Dragic. I think they'd want more, but we're talking hypothetical here.

A highly realistic outcome for the Suns in that scenario is that Dragic's decline continues. Next summer, as a 33 year old in decline, he chooses to play out his player option, this would essentially wipe out most of our projected cap space. So... we would have traded a potential point guard of the future and a pick and lost cap space during a summer with a TON of PG options... and still not solved the hole at point guard.

I honestly that would be the most likely outcome of a Dragic trade. We screw ourselves.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just for discussion's case...

Let's say Miami was agreeable to a trade of Chandler, a lotto protected first and Okobo for Dragic. I think they'd want more, but we're talking hypothetical here.

A highly realistic outcome for the Suns in that scenario is that Dragic's decline continues. Next summer, as a 33 year old in decline, he chooses to play out his player option, this would essentially wipe out most of our projected cap space. So... we would have traded a potential point guard of the future and a pick and lost cap space during a summer with a TON of PG options... and still not solved the hole at point guard.

I honestly that would be the most likely outcome of a Dragic trade. We screw ourselves.

Yeah not down with that trade. Dragic is 33. He’s a stop gap at best.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes, I did not remotely mean that trading Knight for Dragic was a realistic scenario.

I was asked if I thought Dragic was a bad fit then what is Knight?

He's the bad fit we're already stuck with.

It's pointless anyway, even if we wanted Dragic, because of his salary it's hard to make a trade that works and where we don't get screwed.

The Suns should have the expiring contract of Arthur to work with as well... besides Chandler.

 

[Errntknght]

My guess is the Dragic would be Igor's first choice, if we were to bring in another PG because he'd have someone on the floor who is very familiar with the system he wants to run. It would almost like Igor was out there himself running the show. I don't think we can afford Groan unless he's so eager to return he'll do it for half price. - Miami might make a trade for BK simply to save money, who knows.

Another possibility is that McD seriously wants to give Knight another shot in order to mitigate the damage to his reputation that BK represents. I don't mind that too much because I think Knight will quickly revert to the Knight we hate, leaving the door open for Harrison and Okobo to succeed.

To me Harrison, Reed, and Bridges are the keys to quickly returning to contention - a defensive unit that slow down the best of teams. Ariza is coming in to show how it's done in the frontcourt, though perhaps he'll stay on if he likes it well enough. Hopeufully Jackson learns a lot from him and becomes the defender we thought he was.

 

[Mainstreet]

He’s obviously not suggesting the Heat would do it just that he’d prefer Dragic > Knight if it were a straight up choice.

For me it depends on what it’d cost. I would prefer Dragic because he’s the better player and not coming off injury.

It would be nice to include Knight but I don't think this is happening.

 

[Mainstreet]

The more I think about it, Arthur is a perfect trade chip for the Suns to use for a point guard in a trade. The Suns not only use Dudley's contract to free money and space for a big man but they still have Arthur's contract to send elsewhere. Pretty smart move by McDonough if he can pull it off.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The more I think about it, Arthur is a perfect trade chip for the Suns to use for a point guard in a trade. The Suns not only use Dudley's contract to free money and space for a big man but they still have Arthur's contract to send elsewhere. Pretty smart move by McDonough if he can pull it off.

Didn’t they report they were buying him out?

 

[Mainstreet]

Didn’t they report they were buying him out?

I believe this is how it was reported but it might be like Monroe last season. The Suns will look for a trade first.

The plus is that Arthur does not have the big contract like Monroe which turned out to be a negative. The Suns could add a pick, such as the Bucks pick, with his contract to make it attractive to a team that wants to clear money and obtain a point guard.

 

[Superbone]

Yeah...but he's got a lot of upside if he can learn to shoot. That's a HUGE if, but on a two-way contract? Seems appealing to me. He was right there with Sexton and ahead of Young coming out of high school.

The same could be said for Shaq. (The learn to shoot part.)

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why would the Heat trade Dragic for Knight straight up except maybe to save a few million this season. Dragic has positive trade value. Knight doesn't. The Heat would want further compensation.

Knight is guaranteed next season as well. And Dragic has a player option next season where he could conceivably leave anyway... if the Heat are worried about money.

I doubt Dragic has much positive trade value.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

The same could be said for Shaq. (The learn to shoot part.)

Agreed. If Shaq can learn to shoot, that would be awesome. If he could learn to shoot and reliably pass the ball to Ayton, the sky is the limit! I'm actually really high on Shaq. I just think as long as we don't have a proven point guard, we might as well go high-upside point guard with our second two-way contract. Doubt there are a lot of options out there better for that than Duval. Fully formed point guards aren't available for two-way contracts, so I think it makes sense to grade them for what they can do, not what they can't do.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Agreed. If Shaq can learn to shoot, that would be awesome. If he could learn to shoot and reliably pass the ball to Ayton, the sky is the limit! I'm actually really high on Shaq. I just think as long as we don't have a proven point guard, we might as well go high-upside point guard with our second two-way contract. Doubt there are a lot of options out there better for that than Duval. Fully formed point guards aren't available for two-way contracts, so I think it makes sense to grade them for what they can do, not what they can't do.

Shaq is an OK ball handler and passer. His D is exceptional. He just needs enough of a shot to keep defenses honest. If Jason Kidd was able to add a shot maybe Shaq can too.

 

[Mainstreet]

I doubt Dragic has much positive trade value.

I believe Dragic has positive value to a team like the Suns. If they want to use their future salary space on him for the 2019-20 season, I think he would be a good acquisition to run the team. The fit seems so natural with Igor having coached him. Dragic can play PG (as he likes) but Booker and Dragic have the ability to run the team. It's very much like that two PG system the Suns always wanted.

The key is not overpaying for him. The Suns should instantly improve with the addition of Dragic. The trade could more easily happen at the trade deadline if the Heat are not going nowhere.

On a side note. I'd just as soon trade for another PG.

 

[SirStefan32]

Problem with Dragic is that he eats your cap space next summer when you have a few PG you could potentially sign. There is no way he is opting out of his contract at his age.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Problem with Dragic is that he eats your cap space next summer when you have a few PG you could potentially sign. There is no way he is opting out of his contract at his age.

Even with the two years left on his contract wouldnt he be considered a bargain? He's only 33. Nash played until he was 41. Im not saying he's Nash. But he also doesnt have the back issues Steve had to deal with through out his career.
I think he would be invaluable teaching the team / potential future pg Koko's system by running the point for the next few years.
If we could rid ourselves of Chandlers and Knights contract we'd be in god shape going forward? I know its just a pipe dream but those are my thoughts.

 

[Hoop Head]

Even with the two years left on his contract wouldnt he be considered a bargain? He's only 33. Nash played until he was 41. Im not saying he's Nash. But he also doesnt have the back issues Steve had to deal with through out his career.
I think he would be invaluable teaching the team / potential future pg Koko's system by running the point for the next few years.
If we could rid ourselves of Chandlers and Knights contract we'd be in god shape going forward? I know its just a pipe dream but those are my thoughts.

Nash's play style was different, bad back or not. Dragic relies on his speed and driving ability to be productive. If you saw Tony Parker play last year that's what Dragic will look like soon. Parker is 36 and has logged a lot of playoff minutes also but he's been on the decline for years. Dragic and Parker are similar in their games as far as both being driving PG's that rely on their speed, smarts, and athleticism to get to the basket and also pass out. Dragic is a much better shooter but taking on his contract is far from ideal because of the player he'll be next year and beyond. I think we'll start seeing a decline this year but he'll opt in to his next year for sure.

Another problem with taking on his contract is how players virtually never take a significant pay cut when their skills decrease. To pay Dragic what he'd be worth on his next contract, we'd need to be a new team making an offer rather than the team he's playing on. He'll probably get close to $10 million when his current deal is up, MLE type of money, but he won't be accepting that sort of deal from the Heat. It will be him seeking more and them turning him down that sends him back onto the market in the first place.