2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Proximo]

anyone up for Fultz for Ariza and Milwaukee pick?

Yes - if Muscala is also included.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

anyone up for Fultz for Ariza and Milwaukee pick?

My issue with this is that it potentially complicates free agency. Let's say we trade Ariza for Fultz and Fultz is clearly a dud by the end of the season...Now we've got an extra $10 million on the cap, limiting our point guard options in the offseason. The best thing Ariza offers to this team right now is offseason cap space, and that could be a valuable thing.

 

[Proximo]

Just saw this https://www.inquisitr.com/5187116/nba-trade-rumors-sixers-could-engage-in-a-three-team-deal-with-wizards-and-suns-to-acquire-bradley-beal/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+google/yDYq+(The+Inquisitr+-+News)&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results

No way in hell should the suns give all that up for Fultz, and Thomas Bryant.

If it was Melton instead of Okobo - and washington giving us back a first, then Maybe

 

[Proximo]

My issue with this is that it potentially complicates free agency. Let's say we trade Ariza for Fultz and Fultz is clearly a dud by the end of the season...Now we've got an extra $10 million on the cap, limiting our point guard options in the offseason. The best thing Ariza offers to this team right now is offseason cap space, and that could be a valuable thing.

Lets be honest. The Suns have very little chance of getting a max type player anyway coming off this season.

We would still have 10 -15 million in cap room, which should be enough to get somebody. Or two or three guys, which might even be the best approach.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Lets be honest. The Suns have very little chance of getting a max type player anyway coming off this season.

We would still have 10 -15 million in cap room, which should be enough to get somebody. Or two or three guys, which might even be the best approach.

But then maybe we could get two 10-15 million guys. Ten million in cap space is still ten million in cap space.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Just saw this https://www.inquisitr.com/5187116/nba-trade-rumors-sixers-could-engage-in-a-three-team-deal-with-wizards-and-suns-to-acquire-bradley-beal/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+google/yDYq+(The+Inquisitr+-+News)&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results

No way in hell should the suns give all that up for Fultz, and Thomas Bryant.

If it was Melton instead of Okobo - and washington giving us back a first, then Maybe

Yeah. That's just gross. In no scenario should the Suns even remotely consider giving up Jackson for Fultz. That's crazy talk. Plus, Okobo likely has a brighter future than Fultz. The argument could be made you gamble on Fultz for the upside, but you're also dealing Jackson's upside in this lopsided trade.

Too many hypothetical traders lack Suns empathy.

 

[Proximo]

But then maybe we could get two 10-15 million guys. Ten million in cap space is still ten million in cap space.

I don't think there is any 10 million dollar player in FA the Suns are going to get with more upside than Fultz. Probably none with more downside either.

I admit 2 days ago I was not for the Fultz move, but I am now - if it is no more than Ariza and the Millwaukee pick (which most likely will turn into nothing of value)

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah. That's just gross. In no scenario should the Suns even remotely consider giving up Jackson for Fultz. That's crazy talk. Plus, Okobo likely has a brighter future than Fultz. The argument could be made you gamble on Fultz for the upside, but you're also dealing Jackson's upside in this lopsided trade.

Too many hypothetical traders lack Suns empathy.

Yeah no way you do that trade. I think trading for Fultz at all is probably a bad move. He will eat up almost $10m in salary next year and assuming Ariza is the player that leaves in the trade we would likely be eating another $5-6m salary player as well to make the trade work. That's a lot of salary to be adding on a gamble. While I am not a huge fan of the idea of Ntilikina I think he would be the more feasible option to trade for since we could trade just about anyone to make salaries match and the only asset we likely have to part with is the Bucks pick. That would only have us on the hook for $5m in salary next year.

 

[95pro]

Lets say we somehow get Fultz, he passes the medical part...that means all this time it was really the yips. Do we really need another head case around here?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I don't think there is any 10 million dollar player in FA the Suns are going to get with more upside than Fultz. Probably none with more downside either.

I admit 2 days ago I was not for the Fultz move, but I am now - if it is no more than Ariza and the Millwaukee pick (which most likely will turn into nothing of value)

Call me a pessimist, but as a longtime Arizona sports fan, I'm not a huge fan of the big downside gamble. That's the type of swing you take if you don't have Ayton and Booker already imho

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Lets say we somehow get Fultz, he passes the medical part...that means all this time it was really the yips. Do we really need another head case around here?

Maybe a new situation and lower expectation help him to overcome it. If his salary wasn't so high next year I would absolutely take the gamble in hopes that he figures it out.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It is REALLY important to forget all about where Fultz was drafted. Just look at his health, track record so far, potential, and contract.

Once they are drafted, their draft order position makes no difference whatsoever on their ability to play.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It is REALLY important to forget all about where Fultz was drafted. Just look at his health, track record so far, potential, and contract.

Once they are drafted, their draft order position makes no difference whatsoever on their ability to play.

I somewhat disagree. If he had a very long track record of playing poorly than draft position would mean nothing, but he was drafted #1 overall just last year for a reason and he has only played in 33 games since then. The fact that he was regarded that highly just a little over a year ago absolutely adds to the intrigue, but the future salary is what makes it such a gamble.

 

[95pro]

It is REALLY important to forget all about where Fultz was drafted. Just look at his health, track record so far, potential, and contract.

Once they are drafted, their draft order position makes no difference whatsoever on their ability to play.

You take a gamble on a Kawhi not a Fultz

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Spencer Dinwiddie. Spencer Dinwiddie. Spencer Dinwiddie.

He's shown real improvement. He's a playmaker. He's in the sweet spot of age where he's developed and mature but has tons of prime years left.

Brooklyn has him coming off the bench and has to make a decision on an extension. They can't go over 4 years for $48 million. If they pass, he's a UFA. He may be able to be had because of their roster and hope to add big-time free agents this offseason. Go get him.

 

[Proximo]

You take a gamble on a Kawhi not a Fultz

No, you should take a gamble on both.

The difference is the price you are willing to pay. Ariza is not too high a price.

 

[Proximo]

Spencer Dinwiddie. Spencer Dinwiddie. Spencer Dinwiddie.

He's shown real improvement. He's a playmaker. He's in the sweet spot of age where he's developed and mature but has tons of prime years left.

Brooklyn has him coming off the bench and has to make a decision on an extension. They can't go over 4 years for $48 million. If they pass, he's a UFA. He may be able to be had because of their roster and hope to add big-time free agents this offseason. Go get him.

I am pretty sure they are going to resign him. 4 for 48 is a reasonable deal. Even as just a trade asset. I think they make Russel available before him.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

No, you should take a gamble on both.

The difference is the price you are willing to pay. Ariza is not too high a price.

The gamble isn't what we would have to give up to get him. The issue is that he is going to eat up $10m in salary next year and we would likely have to take on another salary of $5-6m as well to make the trade work. So that would be kind of like having Ariza on the books for another year instead of him being an expiring contract. Gives us significantly less money in free agency next year and there are some good free agents available next year.

 

[Proximo]

It is REALLY important to forget all about where Fultz was drafted. Just look at his health, track record so far, potential, and contract.

Once they are drafted, their draft order position makes no difference whatsoever on their ability to play.

Well that is the thing isn't it.

I don't know how much of this is due to his health - I suspect some of it was. I learned yesterday his first love is to ride BMX bikes. The motorcycle accident rumor makes even more sense to me now.

Is health still a factor - I doubt it, I really think this latest move is designed to force a trade.

If he is going to recover mentally I actually think Phoenix is a good place for it. Name another team where he would get less attention, and have less expectations on him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

No, you should take a gamble on both.

The difference is the price you are willing to pay. Ariza is not too high a price.

$10 million in cap obligation is. That is the main issue. Ariza is not. If we could get them to take back Anderson somehow, that would be nice.

 

[Proximo]

The gamble isn't what we would have to give up to get him. The issue is that he is going to eat up $10m in salary next year and we would likely have to take on another salary of $5-6m as well to make the trade work. So that would be kind of like having Ariza on the books for another year instead of him being an expiring contract. Gives us significantly less money in free agency next year and there are some good free agents available next year.

Muscala is an expiring contract. Patton is an expiring, korkmaz is an expiring, amir johnson is an expiring, McConnell is an expiring. Those are the possible throw in's. None of them will affect our cap room.

Muscala would help our PF issue now, and might be someone we would want to resign.

We are talking about 1 year of salary - if Fultz fails, we don't pick up the option and we have the cap room the following year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Muscala is an expiring contract. Patton is an expiring, korkmaz is an expiring, amir johnson is an expiring, McConnell is an expiring. Those are the possible throw in's. None of them will affect our cap room.

Muscala would help our PF issue now, and might be someone we would want to resign.

We are talking about 1 year of salary - if Fultz fails, we don't pick up the option and we have the cap room the following year.

But he seriously hampers our ability to sign a free agent this summer. Its about the timing.

 

[Proximo]

But he seriously hampers our ability to sign a free agent this summer. Its about the timing.

Realistically who do the suns have a shot at over 15 million a year?

I want to believe we could maybe get Randle or or Mirotic - but I think they would be around 15 - 20 million. Truthfully we probably can't get them. But I have a feeling we can make the room if we can and only need 2 or 3 million more.

I just don't see it as a problem, because Durrant, Tobias Harris, or Kemba are not coming to the Suns in their current condition.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Realistically who do the suns have a shot at over 15 million a year?

I want to believe we could maybe get Randle or or Mirotic - but I think they would be around 15 - 20 million. Truthfully we probably can't get them. But I have a feeling we can make the room if we can and only need 2 or 3 million more.

I just don't see it as a problem, because Durrant, Tobias Harris, or Kemba are not coming to the Suns in their current condition.

There are WAY more free agents than this. That is really short-sighted thinking. There are at least 10 free agent point guards I would prefer over Fultz.

 

[Proximo]

There are WAY more free agents than this. That is really short-sighted thinking. There are at least 10 free agent point guards I would prefer over Fultz.

Like who?

Kemba - he is staying put
Rozier - No way for me, he is incredibly overrated.
Bledsoe - yeah right
Dragic - he's old
Russell - I am not sold on him
Rubio - He is stinking it up this season and he is older
Dinwiddle is going to be resigned
Brogden - I would love him but he is restricted and isn't going anywhere

I don't see these PG's you are talking about. Nobody that remotely excites me.

Any other fa pg's should be available easily with our cap room