2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[Proximo]

Any reason why we let Elfrid Payton walk? Despite the dumb hair (which he cut) he seemed to have a pretty well-rounded game, and in the least a competent starting PG. Better than any PG we have on the roster now and what he had a chance at signing in FA last off-season.

I'm sorry, did you actually watch him play with the Suns last year?

He was no answer he was terrible.

 

[Proximo]

So. Guard pursuit this summer. We need a pure pg or a combo guard to take pressure off of Booker. So here are options.

Kyrie--Would love him but he is probably staying with Boston.
Kemba--Throw him the max, but it looks like Charlotte is going all in on Kemba.
Russell--Intriguing. Gettable I think. Should be a consideration.
Rozier--Also gettable, has managed the starting position well.
Rubio--Has limitations but also has a relationship with our coach. Would like better shooting.
Collison--Meh. Has some intriguing qualities.
Teague--Meh. Not killing it in Minny.
Beverly--Older, injury prone. Doesn't seem to fit
Brogdon--I like him a lot, but his a RFA that will probably be unconditionally matched.
McConnell--Good player but not starter quality.
Rose--Dark horse idea, has had very few healthy seasons but a remarkable talent and remaking himself. Major competitor.

SG's who could play along side Booker.

Jimmy Butler--hmmm. Yeah, theoretically it could work.
Klay Thompson--pipe dream but interesting. Too much like Booker, but wouldn't it be fun to steal him from the Warriors. NOt reality of course, but fun thought.

So, basically you think it is down to Rubio or Russell as a free agent.

That is what I think too - which is why I am in favor of trading for Dennis Smith - because I like him better than both of them - especially on a much cheaper contract for the next 2 years.

 

[1Sun]

So. Guard pursuit this summer. We need a pure pg or a combo guard to take pressure off of Booker. So here are options.

Kyrie--Would love him but he is probably staying with Boston.
Kemba--Throw him the max, but it looks like Charlotte is going all in on Kemba.
Russell--Intriguing. Gettable I think. Should be a consideration.
Rozier--Also gettable, has managed the starting position well.
Rubio--Has limitations but also has a relationship with our coach. Would like better shooting.
Collison--Meh. Has some intriguing qualities.
Teague--Meh. Not killing it in Minny.
Beverly--Older, injury prone. Doesn't seem to fit
Brogdon--I like him a lot, but his a RFA that will probably be unconditionally matched.
McConnell--Good player but not starter quality.
Rose--Dark horse idea, has had very few healthy seasons but a remarkable talent and remaking himself. Major competitor.

SG's who could play along side Booker.

Jimmy Butler--hmmm. Yeah, theoretically it could work.
Klay Thompson--pipe dream but interesting. Too much like Booker, but wouldn't it be fun to steal him from the Warriors. NOt reality of course, but fun thought.

Agreed, with the following exceptions and caveats:

Russell - Only if they aren't paying him north of $15-17 million per season.
Rozier - Has managed the starting position extremely poorly, outside of a few games in last year's playoffs. Avoid at all costs.
Rubio - Not worth more than $10 million per season, and even that's a stretch. I am horrified that they will pay him double that just because of his relationship with our coach, who in my opinion does not deserve to be our coach. In the likely event the Suns will have to fire Igor Kokoskov eventually, Rubio's contract becomes as much dead weight as Brandon Knight's contract was. That might happen even before Igor Kokoskov is shown the door.
Collison - Agreed, but would be better than Rubio and at a cheaper price.
Teague - See Collison.
Rose - Only if there is absolute assurance he does not pull what Ariza did with us.

In my opinion, there is not a single SG in the NBA who could play alongside Booker, unless you would count Lebron James as a SG and would have the offense run through him. Relying on Booker as the primary distributor and playmaker will ruin both the team and Booker individually. Please don't go there. Booker HAS to play primarily off of the ball or at most be a secondary ball handler with the offense being initiated through someone else in order for Booker to realize his true potential, in my opinion.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Nice list. I'd love Kemba, would be okay with Russell, wouldn't hate Brogdon or McConnell and could tolerate Rubio if the price was right. No way on Rozier, and I think it's a huge overstatement to say he's managed the starting position well but regardless, I wouldn't want him as a starter at any price. As for Rose, I fully expect him to disappear when he finally gets another big contract - the team that pays him major money will deserve the hell they'll likely get. Collison or Teague on the cheap might work for a short term fix. And a big no to Butler and yeah, Thompson is a pipe dream.

I don't quite get this about Rozier. When he took over last season after Kyrie's injury, he performed very well in the regular season and playoffs. His playoff numbers were:

16.5 ppg. 5.7 assists (1.2 TO's), 5.3 rebounds, 35% from three, 82% from the line, 1.2 steals, Ortg of 115 and a Drtg of 107. He also passed the eye test in the playoffs. Everyone was talking about him. I know some seem to think he is a Brad Stevens creation that will fail elsewhere, but still.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For the record, I expect these guys to be different people at 23 or 24 than they were at 19. There is a whole lot of maturing that happens through that stage in life. He is worth a look.

That is true. I also made a lot of stupid decisions when I was younger. But I would have never done something like what he did even when I was in my teens. I just have to keep reminding myself it's a much different world today. I agree he's worth a look.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't quite get this about Rozier. When he took over last season after Kyrie's injury, he performed very well in the regular season and playoffs. His playoff numbers were:

16.5 ppg. 5.7 assists (1.2 TO's), 5.3 rebounds, 35% from three, 82% from the line, 1.2 steals, Ortg of 115 and a Drtg of 107. He also passed the eye test in the playoffs. Everyone was talking about him. I know some seem to think he is a Brad Stevens creation that will fail elsewhere, but still.

Yes, he had a short stretch where he played very well but that happens often when the other team doesn't put much effort into scouting you. As I recall, Cleveland pretty much dominated when he was on the court after their first couple of playoff losses to Boston last season.

IMO he's a role playing guard that believes he's star material, I just don't want to pay for someone like that. If he was on our team, content to backup our starter and fill in when needed with the first team, he'd be a nice addition. But nothing suggests he's willing to be that guy nor is he willing to take backup dollars.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm sorry, did you actually watch him play with the Suns last year?

He was no answer he was terrible.

He played really well when he first came to Phoenix. He played very poorly afterwards. Who knows why such an extreme occurred but the fact we were obviously tanking might have played a role. Also, it's possible our front office made it clear they weren't interested in giving him the kind of contract he was hoping for. I have no clue what actually caused his huge dropoff but given that his history isn't all that exciting in the first place, I could see us being reluctant to gamble big on him.

 

[Raindog]

Of all the mentioned possibilities, Rubio and/or McConnell (and MAYBE Russell) are probably the only realistic ones. Brogdon would be nice, but Milwaukee's not letting him walk. Rozier would only end up here as a massive overpay, and has future bust written all over him.

 

[95pro]

He played really well when he first came to Phoenix. He played very poorly afterwards. Who knows why such an extreme occurred but the fact we were obviously tanking might have played a role. Also, it's possible our front office made it clear they weren't interested in giving him the kind of contract he was hoping for. I have no clue what actually caused his huge dropoff but given that his history isn't all that exciting in the first place, I could see us being reluctant to gamble big on him.

I can totally see McD saying something like that with no emotion to a player and not expect to see any type of repercussion.

 

[taz02]

Overpaying is not a reason to pass. I guarantee we will have to overpay for any quality PG we sign or trade for.

Our desperation, lack of winning and the fact that so many teams have cap space leaves little choice. We can draft a PG, get lucky with an an unproven guy that no one thinks will be good or overpay.

We just had to pay Ariza 15m to come here. Rubio is not signing here for 9m per year......Hope I'm wrong

 

[1Sun]

Overpaying is not a reason to pass. I guarantee we will have to overpay for any quality PG we sign or trade for.

Our desperation, lack of winning and the fact that so many teams have cap space leaves little choice. We can draft a PG, get lucky with an an unproven guy that no one thinks will be good or overpay.

We just had to pay Ariza 15m to come here. Rubio is not signing here for 9m per year......Hope I'm wrong

Then I would rather overpay Russell or Collison or Teague rather than Rubio or Rozier.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I could see Rubio. He can play D. He can distribute. He sees the floor. He has a relationship with our coach. He is unrestricted.

But that shooting. . . .

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I could see Rubio. He can play D. He can distribute. He sees the floor. He has a relationship with our coach. He is unrestricted.

But that shooting. . . .

Hard to get everything you are looking for. While he is a poor shooter he at least makes them enough that you have to account for it and the other things that he brings would make up for that IMO.

 

[SirStefan32]

I could see Rubio. He can play D. He can distribute. He sees the floor. He has a relationship with our coach. He is unrestricted.

But that shooting. . . .

Eh, he is shooting 33% this season and was at 35% last year. It's not great, but it's not bad enough that the teams can just completely ignore him. I'd be fine with Rubio if he doesn't cost $15M+ per year. If Igor wants him, sign him.

 

[taz02]

Jason Kidd was 34.9%.....

 

[SirStefan32]

Jason Kidd was 34.9%.....

Without looking it up, I'd have to say he improved as a three-point shooter. I know that he was actually a good shooter in his last few years in the league. He was weird though, even early in his career. I remember one year in Phoenix, he shot the ball very well from the three, and then he had a season where he reverted back to Ason Kidd with no "J".

 

[taz02]

If we are talking about 3p%, Basketball Reference has Booker at 32.4% for the season and Rubio at 32.9%.....

 

[SirStefan32]

If we are talking about 3p%, Basketball Reference has Booker at 32.4% for the season and Rubio at 32.9%.....

To be fair, Book has had a really bad year. Hand issue, then hamstring twice. Additionally, he's been shooting them off the dribble, without having anyone find him for easy catch and shoot situations.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Booker is not playing as well as we think lately. I have not been a Rubio fan throughout his career, but he looks to have the closest set of skills

He plays D. He can see the floor really well. He can pass the ball inside. He has enough of a shot. He is also in that sweet spot age wise. He is 28 so he will be mature for this bunch while having at least 5 good years left.

Yeah. I think Rubio would be my first one to pursue.

 

[Mainstreet]

It's hard to know who might be available before the trade deadline on February 7th but there might be some interesting candidates as teams with playoff aspirations fall short.

 

[1tinsoldier]

you had me at "He plays D. He can see the floor really well. He can pass the ball inside"

 

[Hoop Head]

So. Guard pursuit this summer. We need a pure pg or a combo guard to take pressure off of Booker. So here are options.

Kyrie--Would love him but he is probably staying with Boston.
Kemba--Throw him the max, but it looks like Charlotte is going all in on Kemba.
Russell--Intriguing. Gettable I think. Should be a consideration.
Rozier--Also gettable, has managed the starting position well.
Rubio--Has limitations but also has a relationship with our coach. Would like better shooting.
Collison--Meh. Has some intriguing qualities.
Teague--Meh. Not killing it in Minny.
Beverly--Older, injury prone. Doesn't seem to fit
Brogdon--I like him a lot, but his a RFA that will probably be unconditionally matched.
McConnell--Good player but not starter quality.
Rose--Dark horse idea, has had very few healthy seasons but a remarkable talent and remaking himself. Major competitor.

SG's who could play along side Booker.

Jimmy Butler--hmmm. Yeah, theoretically it could work.
Klay Thompson--pipe dream but interesting. Too much like Booker, but wouldn't it be fun to steal him from the Warriors. NOt reality of course, but fun thought.

Interesting you listed Klay. While that is a pipe dream I have heard rumblings they might let Draymond walk because of the problems he's caused with Durant. Of course if KD goes then Green most likely stays but it depends on how they handle things. I think Green is the type to feel slighted if they pursue KD first and in that case I'd throw all of our money at Green. He'd solve our PF problem and help us field a less than great starting PG because of his playmaking. Not ideal but a possibility, more so than Butler or Klay, IMO.

 

[SirStefan32]

I've been following Dallas closely this season and they are playing Charlotte tonight. I will be shocked if Kemba signs with them again this summer. They are awful, and they have zero young talent. Hornets are a mess.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've been following Dallas closely this season and they are playing Charlotte tonight. I will be shocked if Kemba signs with them again this summer. They are awful, and they have zero young talent. Hornets are a mess.

Where is @ColdPickleNachos.

As I recall he is a huge fan of Walker.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Where is @ColdPickleNachos.

As I recall he is a huge fan of Walker.

Yeah...I've been all in on Walker for sure. Unfortunately, I doubt he leaves Charlotte to come to Phoenix. If he does leave the Hornets, my guess is it's because he wants to play on a contender or for a big market.

I guess if the Suns get hot late and Booker/Ayton and crew look like an obvious future contender...but even then I think it's a long shot.