2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

[SunnyBaller]

I don't see them valuing any of the questionable young talent the Suns would likely make available. Think it's safe to assume Ayton and Booker are off the table, and I would add Bridges to that list personally. Pretty much TJ, JJ, Melton and Okobo left for a team that is presumably getting Kuzma, Ingram and Ball. Maybe there is a multi team trade that could work for a team that would value what the Suns have to offer more than the Pels, but I don't see them wanting to replicate the pieces they just got for AD. I think any deal would likely center around draft picks, question becomes what kind of protection would there be. I think if the Suns are offering lightly protected pick(s) they should be aiming higher than Holiday.

Holiday is worth a top 3 protected pick easily he's 28 and the best defensive PG in the league

 

[AzStevenCal]

Holiday is worth a top 3 protected pick easily he's 28 and the best defensive PG in the league

He is but I'm not sure he's worth that much to us. Granted, unless we get Zion in this draft, Holiday will likely be better than the rest of this class but Holiday is a win now player and we aren't there yet, even with him. But if we really want him, I'd rather we wait until after the season before we put together a deal.

 

[taz02]

You are not going to get Holliday or similar talent by trading what you want to get rid of..Its going to hurt some, you are going to have to part with something/someone you really don't want to give up.

I think the suns should be all over this.

 

[SunnyBaller]

He is but I'm not sure he's worth that much to us. Granted, unless we get Zion in this draft, Holiday will likely be better than the rest of this class but Holiday is a win now player and we aren't there yet, even with him. But if we really want him, I'd rather we wait until after the season before we put together a deal.

I agree with that, id rather not trade the pick until we know where it lands, if we can get holiday now without the pick im all for it , he doesn't quite fit the time line but he's young enough to give them several good years and finally have a good veteran leader that the team hasn't had for awhile

 

[AzStevenCal]

You are not going to get Holliday or similar talent by trading what you want to get rid of..Its going to hurt some, you are going to have to part with something/someone you really don't want to give up.

I think the suns should be all over this.

Why? To me, he has a lot more value to a good team than he would to a bad one which is going to drive his price up. I believe he can make a good team a very good team but what's he going to do for a very bad team? Turn us into just a bad team? Is it really worth giving up a lot of assets to accomplish something that a few months from now will be completely meaningless? I'm not sure it is.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree with that, id rather not trade the pick until we know where it lands, if we can get holiday now without the pick im all for it , he doesn't quite fit the time line but he's young enough to give them several good years and finally have a good veteran leader that the team hasn't had for awhile

That's the kiss of death AFAIC. We've recently traded for or signed a few players with that veteran leader label and it's just been wasted money. But as for his age, I don't think he's too old to help us, just that we might be too young to fully benefit from his presence. I'd still make a move for him in the offseason if he's available but I don't know how much I'd give up for him.

 

[taz02]

I thought we needed a PG for our coach and Ayton to shine?

 

[1Sun]

I thought we needed a PG for our coach and Ayton to shine?

Yes. A good point guard who can distribute/facilitate, defend, shoot well enough to keep opposing defenses honest, and who wants to be here. At best Lonzo Ball only meets half of those criteria.

 

[Proximo]

Why? To me, he has a lot more value to a good team than he would to a bad one which is going to drive his price up. I believe he can make a good team a very good team but what's he going to do for a very bad team? Turn us into just a bad team? Is it really worth giving up a lot of assets to accomplish something that a few months from now will be completely meaningless? I'm not sure it is.

Well he is under contract for several years. The bet would be the team would improve during that time.

But if he only wants to go to a winner - which is probably the case, it just isn't going to work. It will be Bledsoe/Ariza all over again.

I hate to say it, but the Suns may only be able to acquire relatively young veterans like Ball who will willingly play for us, because they feel like they have enough years left in the league to take a chance, or straight mercenaries - who we really don't want.

 

[Proximo]

Yes. A good point guard who can distribute/facilitate, defend, shoot well enough to keep opposing defenses honest, and who wants to be here. At best Lonzo Ball only meets half of those criteria.

He can distribute, he can defend, it is reported he wants to be here. That is 3 out of 4.

I think 33% from 3 is close to filling the other criteria also.

 

[1Sun]

He can distribute, he can defend, it is reported he wants to be here. That is 3 out of 4.

I think 33% from 3 is close to filling the other criteria also.

Wanting away from Lebron and to go to a team where he will start is a far cry from wanting to be here. The only reason he doesn't want to go to New Orleans is that he would be third on their point guard depth chart, behind Holiday and Payton.

 

[Mainstreet]

Why? To me, he has a lot more value to a good team than he would to a bad one which is going to drive his price up. I believe he can make a good team a very good team but what's he going to do for a very bad team? Turn us into just a bad team? Is it really worth giving up a lot of assets to accomplish something that a few months from now will be completely meaningless? I'm not sure it is.

Holiday is not going to turn the Suns into a bad team and the Suns will have him for years to come.

Now if the Suns want to go younger for a player like Ball with a less imposing salary I understand this.

 

[Proximo]

Wanting away from Lebron and to go to a team where he will start is a far cry from wanting to be here. The only reason he doesn't want to go to New Orleans is that he would be third on their point guard depth chart, behind Holiday and Payton.

That is as good as it is going to get. Somebody that is ok coming here for the opportunity to grow their career.

I mean yeah sure he would probably rather get on Golden State if they could put him in the starting lineup. But nobody is going to have Phoenix as their true top choice in our current condition.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I’m good with trading this year’s pick with top 3 protection. I’d hope to add TJ and okobo. And would throw in Milwaukee pick if necessary. That’s a nice haul for a player that likely no longer fits Pels designs.

And though I like jrue I don’t think he’s enough to materially improve us to the detriment of our pick. Without his having gone through training camp and working with all our youth I don’t think he’s a magical elixir this year. So if luck holds we likely still get a top 3 pick. If not,I don’t mind paying off that debt to New Orleans with a pick lower than 3 in a 3 person draft.

And while jrue is 28 and outside the “timeline” we’ve been complaining that we’re all babies and geezers. He represents that good vet in his prime that likely has the gravitas to be a good leader for the youth while not needing to dominate the game while letting booker Ayton and bridges grow into their roles and hopefully dominance.

I really don’t want to give up JJ in lieu of TJ in the deal, but if that’s what got it done i think I’d do it. I’d have strong misgivings about replacing either of them with bridges in the deal.

 

[GatorAZ]

Jrue and Randle ideally,. Give him a few months with Ayton to see how they gel.

 

[Proximo]

Jrue and Randle ideally,. Give him a few months with Ayton to see how they gel.

Yeah ideally. I really doubt they can pull that off. If they did it would be real expensive.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well he is under contract for several years. The bet would be the team would improve during that time.

But if he only wants to go to a winner - which is probably the case, it just isn't going to work. It will be Bledsoe/Ariza all over again.

I hate to say it, but the Suns may only be able to acquire relatively young veterans like Ball who will willingly play for us, because they feel like they have enough years left in the league to take a chance, or straight mercenaries - who we really don't want.

Sure, I guess it wasn't clear (because I sort of spread it out over a few posts) but I was talking about what he'd do for us now that we'd lose out on if we waited to go after him in the offseason. He's not going to walk in and make us a good team. If through the draft and free agency we can add a league average power forward to go along with Holiday and the growth of the young guys we could see some real improvement next season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I thought we needed a PG for our coach and Ayton to shine?

I know I think it’s funny every time a pg seems to available everyone here doesn’t him. But all season we’ve been grousing about not having a pg. from my seat I think this board has murdered:

Rozier
Wall
Ball
Holiday
DSR
Rubio

And it seems to pine for:

Dinwiddie (just resigned with nets)
Russell (likely outta our reach due to play)
Tyus jones
The backup to the backup for the nugz
Collision
Rubio (yeah he seems to be the most even split for the board)
McConnell
Kemba (likely outta reach)
Lilliard (unlikely)
Dragic
Teodosic
Beverly

 

[SirStefan32]

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Now THAT is what we need! None of this LaVar crap.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know I think it’s funny every time a pg seems to available everyone here doesn’t him. But all season we’ve been grousing about not having a pg. from my seat I think this board has murdered:

Rozier
Wall
Ball
Holiday
DSR
Rubio

And it seems to pine for:

Dinwiddie (just resigned with nets)
Russell (likely outta our reach due to play)
Tyus jones
The backup to the backup for the nugz
Collision
Rubio (yeah he seems to be the most even split for the board)
McConnell
Kemba (likely outta reach)
Lilliard (unlikely)
Dragic
Teodosic
Beverly

Yeah, I think I've set a record this season trashing possible PG acquisitions. Of that list, I think Ball, Rubio or Rozier are probably the best mid-season choices assuming they're on the discount rack (deep discount for Rozier). Holiday or Walker would be my preferred offseason acquisition although Walker is highly unlikely. I have no interest in Beverly, Teodosic, Dragic, Collison or McConnell except as backups or very short term fixes. Russell has played himself into a keeper for the Nets and Dinwiddie and Lillard are not likely available.

 

[elindholm]

I'm higher on Holiday now that I know that acquiring him would block a move for Ball.

 

[Phrazbit]

My only hesitation with Jrue is that I think he'd have us winning a lot the rest of the way...

Can we convince him to play 5-10 games and then go "out with an ankle" for a few months?

And @Ouchie-Z-Clown you forgot Van Fleet on your list!

Woulda been nice to make a real offer to him instead of Ariza, but I think the Raptors will shop him in the summer unless they blow up their team.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

My only hesitation with Jrue is that I think he'd have us winning a lot the rest of the way...

Can we convince him to play 5-10 games and then go "out with an ankle" for a few months?

And @Ouchie-Z-Clown you forgot Van Fleet on your list!

Woulda been nice to make a real offer to him instead of Ariza, but I think the Raptors will shop him in the summer unless they blow up their team.

With the current lottery odds I wouldn’t be worried about winning a few games. It isn’t going to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Phrazbit]

With the current lottery odds I wouldn’t be worried about winning a few games. It isn’t going to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, but we're the Suns... if we drop to 5th or 6th you know we'll be picking 8th or 9th... who knows, the machine might catch fire and have not picking at all.

In seriousness though, if we did trade for him I expect that they'd let him play about a month and unless we were white hot, they'd shut him down. So... I'd take Holiday if the price is right.

About as cheap as I can make it while still being realistic...

Anderson, Warren, Jackson, Bender and the Bucks pick and our pick, top 5 protected this year, top 3 for a few years after for... Moore, Mirotic and Holiday.

We could give up less if we hadn't pointlessly waived Chandler and Rivers but... yeah...

 

[sunsfan88]

Now THAT is what we need! None of this LaVar crap.

Elite defender, good 3pt shooter and decent passer?? Sign me up please!